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Contrarians and Channel 4

Quite a lot of the time, I get irritated by the Channel 4 news programme, and its anchor, Jon Snow, who is often so blatant in his bias that it no longer angers, merely bemuses. But in fairness to that channel, it still seems willing to take risks with genuinely intelligent and argumentative programmes of the sort that the BBC will often rarely touch these days. Case in point was this programme. It does not pretend to be coolly objective: it is fiercely pro-free market; it hammers away at the fact that Britain is massively in public debt and that this issue primarily stems from decades of the Welfare State and a socialistic polity. Various people, such as Mark Littlewood of the Institute of Economic Affairs, appear on it. (Very good he is too, as the old film reviewer Barry Norman used to say). I would imagine that anyone watching this who is a Keynesian or big government type would be spitting blood by the end of the show, particularly as a result of how, for example, it raves about Hong Kong under the benevolent guidance of John Cowperthwaite during the late days of Hong Kong’s colonial history. Another thing struck me: Alisdair Darling, the former finance minister in the recent Labour government, came across as incredibly weak in defending his views; he looked a broken man. The head of the TUC, Brendan Barber, looked like a complacent City banker during the fat years.

This show is not an isolated example of how the channel has thrown rocks at the received wisdom. This show was another case; and this more recent tilt at the gods of AGW alarmism was another.

Of course, these may only be isolated examples. But I am not so sure. There is, at the moment, a general questioning among some people about certain supposedly “settled views”, such as that we need governments to prevent AGW, or that printing money and expanding the state is a good thing, or that genetically modified crops are the mark of Satan, and so forth.

And I can remember the Channel 4 Diverse Reports series of the 1980s, including its show, The New Enlightenment (which I don’t know is still available). I remember watching it for the first time and imagining how the the heads of leftists and tweedy Tories would be exploding.

39 comments to Contrarians and Channel 4

  • Barry Sheridan

    Your being rather kind to the leader of the TUC, he clearly has no idea about how national wealth is produced. Still in that he is with many in government who do not either.

  • ManikMonkee

    Anyone got a torrent of that show for the expats! 🙂

  • Or it could be that Durkin has some kind of Pull with state-owned Channel 4. Two of your examples are Durkin shows, and I understand Durkin did a show on GM foods as well.

  • John B

    Excellent that such a programme with all it’s potential damage to the Keynesians and fellow travellers could actually make it on to MSM.
    Makes one wonder, how it got through, though.

  • Ian: no, not if you are outside the UK (a copyright thing).

  • ragingnick

    I wonder if channel 4 will have another christmas message
    From ahmadinejad

  • Alasdair Reid

    I wish some of you lot would read some history to set alongside your economic theory. The National Debt predates the Atlee government, believe it or not. I’d love to see you applying freshwater analysis to, say, the economic innovations of King John, between 1199 and 1216. Or Henry VIII’s notions of the relationship between the State and money. The State has always been with us; free marketeers tend to come and go.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Alistair, I know my economic history, thanks. I know that the National Debt has been around a long time – so? Does that make the current size of the UK’s debt less of an issue?

    Our national debt is on a par with what existed after WW2, and unless I have missed something, Britain has not been involved in a huge global conflagration lately.

    It is one thing to put the debt into perspective, but that is not much comfort given that a large chunk of current government revenue is being eaten up in interest payments.

  • RAB

    That King John was a right bugger wasn’t he?

    He pissed the Royal Treasury up against the wall so fast, and ended up so broke, that he tried to sell the whole damned country to Saladin.

    No wonder the Baron’s had to sort him out.

    Thank’s to him we got Magna Carta, of whom Tony Hancock once said…

    That snooty bird that got everone to sign the Pledge and had all the Boozers closed by half past ten! 😉

  • “Genuinely intelligent and argumentative programmes of the sort that the BBC will often rarely touch these days.” Rarely? The BBC would never make a programme like this.

  • Sophia

    Hi!   We are students at Smith College in Massachusetts taking a Research Seminar.   We invite you to take a survey assessing gender attitudes and behavior. The survey should take between 30-45 minutes to complete and is completely anonymous.   To thank you for your participation, you will be entered into a raffle for a $50 gift card on Amazon.com.   Thank you in advance for your participation!  

    http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NVG3CBG

  • Kevin B

    Cracking program. I particularly liked the ‘What’s My Line’* ripoff:

    “Do you co-ordinate consultancy with other consultant co-ordinators?”

    I did however feel that the restaurant scene left out half of the story, (that which is not seen so to speak), i.e. what the restauranteur could have done with the Fifty quid.

    Still, all in all an excellent, if terrifying, look at our problems.

    *When people moan about today’s reality TV programs, I remember back to the good old days of What’s My Line and Animal Vegetable or Mineral and the like. Eamon Andrews, Gilbert Harding, Lady Isobel Barnet. Real slebs they wos. Not like yer rubbish these days.

  • Richard Thomas

    Jonathon, please read some usability guides and learn how to construct links properly. “This program”, “this show” and friends are not good style. Would it hurt you to use the actual names of things?

  • PeterT

    I enjoyed it. Watched it while ironing. I loved the comparison of state spending with a situation where a doctor takes blood from one arm of the patient (society), carries it in a bowl to the other side of the operating table, dropping lots of it on the way, then injecting it back through the other arm, to no use and much harm (the patient died). I didn’t like the (mis) use of kids protesting with placards against the debt they will inherit. That felt uncomfortable.

  • Richard Garner

    Peter T, I thought that the use of the kids was a little contrived, but good, and accurate. A similar use recently would have made you more uncomfortable: John Stossel did a program on social security in which he described social security as old people like him stealing from their children. He demonstrated what this was like by taking a toy from a child that had been happily playing with it!

    Incidentally, I think people outside the UK should be able to watch this documentary in my blog post here: http://theuklibertarian.com/2010/11/15/britains-trillion-pound-horror-story/

  • Thanks Richard, works for me in Israel.

  • Kim du Toit

    My favorite Cowperthwaite quote (to Milton Friedman, I think) about the government collecting data, and his refusal to allow it: “If you give them the data, they’ll just use it” (and the unspoken corollary, “against you”).

    Cowperthwaite belongs in the pantheon of free-market heroes. Would that we had his kind running things now.

  • Peter Melia

    I’ve never met Jon Snow, and probably never will, nor he me. But perhaps you will allow me to say a few words in his defence before the hanging?

    When I was gainfully employed I was responsible for the safe operation of a number of merchant ships of all kinds, one of which was the “Altanin” a “clean products tanker” which on the occasion I talk about, in 1981, was carrying vegetable oil, about 20,000 tons of it, for Iraq.
    Up to about 1979 Saddam was armed by the Soviets and the Shah’s Iran was armed by the US. However after the fall of the Shah, Iran became anti-Western therefore Iraq became more socially acceptable. In addition, Saddam’s supporters were Sunni and the newly emergent Iranian Sharia state was Shiite, so conflict between the two was inevitable. They were both heavily armed and wanted to try them out. They had good religious reasons. Their sponsors didn’t mind, it would serve to try out the weapons. So war between the two was win/win for everybody, except for the poor bloody Iraqis and Iranians
    The ship was berthed in Basra, discharging cargo. Suddenly the sporadic war spread there, as I realised when one morning the radio officer of the ship phoned me to say that Iran and Iraq were fighting each other, shells and rockets passing over the ship in both directions. It was 9am in the office, 11am in Basra. The RO had placed the call on the master’s instructions. The Captain came on the line, he was understandably nervous, wanted advice. The situation was exactly as Sparky had said. All of the shore cargo workers had disappeared. He couldn’t get hold of the pilot’s office, nor could he contact the tug company, nor the shore riggers, who handle ship’s lines during mooring operations. So I told him to stop cargo discharge, disconnect the hoses, get the engine ready and single up his mooring lines in preparation for departure. I wanted to know if he could rely upon the chart he had for Basra area, he told me “Yes, sufficient for a simple move to midstream, but after that…”. It was good for him to have Head Office behind him, in case of claims afterwards. Of course Head office at that moment was just me, a lowly ship manager, and at that moment none of the directors had any idea what was going on, or what they were being committed to. I told him he had our full backing to move the ship away from the berth at least to anchorage away from Basra, he was to close the line but call me at any time day or night. Before closing I asked if he had called anyone else? “Only the Daily Telegraph” he said (the Telegraph behaved very well about this when I later phoned them to ask that they not print the name of the ship, or the fact that it was their source for the news, but that is another story). I asked him to try and avoid using the phone unnecessarily, as it was quite likely that one or both of the combatants would be monitoring it, and either side might decide that the Captain’s calls were contrary to their interests and “accidentally” let something nasty fall short onto his deck. We had already agreed that to avoid such accidents he was to fly as many British flags as he could, as prominently as he could. The crew numbered about 57, British officers and Phillipino crew.

    He called back a little later to say that he’d left the berth only to be told when in midstream, to anchor and await further instructions from the Iraqi port authority. The shooting was still going on, from both sides, but at least he felt safer away from any casual boarders from ashore. The situation dragged on, when he was allowed to move downstream, as the Iraqis didn’t want to lose the precious vegetable oil, so it was in their interest to get the ship to “safety” a little downstream, away from the port of Basra. So there he was, anchored.

    My company tried to get help from the UK government, but apart from protests nothing was achieved, and resolved to try any option to help my crew out of their predicament. Days became weeks, the ship was anchored in midstream between the combatants, with only the onboard stock of fuel, water and food, and no prospect of any replenishments. The master was economising on usage of everything, but the day when things would run out was approaching. The British Government could not, or would not, help. I had about twenty other ships in my care, but spent a huge amount of time burning the phone wires begging, pleading, for help.
    Then I discovered that there was an ITN reporter in Basra named Jon Snow, and I spoke to someone in ITN worked my way up the line and eventually told the story to someone senior. Somehow the story got to Jon, and he did an amazing thing. He knew some Iraqi commandos and he talked them into getting my crew off the ship. He spoke with the Captain and arranged for them to leave the ship during a certain night, using ship’s boats. The ship was left with the diesel generator running, which it did until it ran out of fuel, when it quietly stopped itself. He describes it well in his book, “Shooting History”.
    OK, Jon may have differing opinions to you, Johnathan, but remember this, he did a good thing for me once, and for 57 other people, some of them young wives. Please take that into account before hanging him. Fisk was there too, but he played no part in the rescue, Jon organised it, and did it.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Richard, I am not aware that there is
    an official guide to putting up links that
    we must follow. I have never heard of
    that before.

    Just click on the links, it is hardly
    rocket science.

    Sheesh

  • 'Nuke' Gray

    To Sophia from Massachutsets-
    I never answer questionaires from strange women who can’t even spell ‘behaviour’ correctly. And since I never buy anything from Amazon, the money would also be wasted, if I won. Better luck next time- try pretending to be a Nigerian princess with oil shares.

  • Richard Thomas

    Jonathan, as you wish. I don’t mean to derail the thread and I’m not going to bang on about it but proper linking makes your page more readable, maintains context, improves accessibility for the visibly impaired, means your article still makes sense if printed and allows your article to be deciphered should external links change.

    If you care about spelling and grammar, this rates similarly.

    And in general, I don’t click on unidentified links. The Internet is full of links and I need to have my interest piqued to investigate further. Looking down the front page, I note the other correspondents seem to have the right idea.

    Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Richard, I don’t mind constructive feedback and obviously, the most important thing about links is that they are the right ones and actually work (which is the main offence that is committed with such things).

    I put up links in ways to tease the reader in rather than to spell out exactly what the link is going to be about in each case. It is fairly obvious that the links referred to a Channel 4 show and a number of other related shows.

    It is also not true that other bloggers on this site always follow some sort of strict rule (go and look at Natalie Solent and Brian Micklethwait’s posts below, to see what I mean).

    This blog is not a public service, nor do I feel it necessary to accomodate those who want to print off my posts or whatever. This is a hobby of mine. If you want me to observe some strict rule, you can pay me.

  • ManikMonkee

    @Richard Garner

    Cheers mate works in Africa

  • I’m told it works in the US as well.

  • Pontificus Pinion

    “You can watch the whole thing on Youtube-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsqBf5hDjI

    Unfortunately not for all of us:

    “This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.”

    Anyone able to torrent this and also the financial trillion pound horror story, please?

  • PP: see Richard Garner’s link above.

  • Peter Melia: that was Jon Snow was it? Credit where it’s due; acts like that often go unpublicized.

  • Jonathan

    Channel 4 do make some really good programmes; The Great Global Warming Swindle and Undercover Mosque to name two. Makes a great change from the usual leftist propaganda. However, Channel 4 news is more mainstream, as Jeremy Clarkson once said; ” It’s easy being a news presenter on Channel 4, you just sit there and read out what it says in the Guardian.”
    Equinox used to be a really good science show too. Shame they cancelled it.

  • Laird

    Nuke, for someone from Massachusetts “behavior” is indeed spelled correctly. So your British affectation is misplaced. But I never respond to surveys about “gender attitudes”. Here’s an “attitude”: anyone conducting such a survey already has a position staked out, and it’s not one I have any interest in dignifying with a reply. And most certainly not if it involves contributing 30-45 minutes of my time. A tip: surveys need to be very short and sweet, or you antagonize your participants and skew the results. Five minutes, tops.

  • Peter Melia

    Yes mike, it is that Jon Snow. I don’t like his politics either, and I guess he wouldn’t like mine either, but we are all entitled to differ, which is good, isn’t it? The Altanin is still in the Shatt al Arab, if you feel so inclined you can find it yourself. Go into Google Earth and enter the latitude and longitude as follows:-
    30.465762,47.997326
    and eventually, when the zooming stops, you will see a rather blurry view of a tanker, lying along the channel, bow toward the sea. The accomodation decks are painted green still, and the lifeboat davits on the starboard side are still angled out from the shipside, as they left them. The ship has a raised forecastle which can be clearly seen. I think she’s aground with the maindeck at water level. You can see the shadows along the starboard side, the shaded curved places right forward where the water periodically covers it.
    Jon Snow did a great thing that day.
    Thank you, Jon.

  • 'Nuke' Gray

    Laird, my ‘affectation’ is NOT misplaced. Samizdat is centered around Britain, so if Sophia and her friends want us to answer her questions, couldn’t she have taken local culture into account? If I were advertising in America, I would spell words as they spell them.
    I agree with your other points, completely.

  • Richard Thomas

    Jonathan, this is just to acknowledge your reply. Like I said, I won’t bang on.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    No offence Richard, I took your comments in good part (mostly). The real reason for complaints is when links don’t actually work. I occasionally fuck this up, so don’t hesitate to bleat if that happens.

  • Peter – cheers, I had a quick look just now and yes, quite blurry (though I suspect the image will be a lot better if I run GE on a higher spec machine) but the forecastle and lifeboat davits are easily recognizable. In the meantime this is a better picture.

  • Peter Melia

    Sorry, Mike.
    The ship in your picture was a general purpose dry cargo carrier. Look at those 6 derricks (3 port and 3 starboard), they are serving the 4 cargo holds.
    In the GE image, the longitudinal walkway can be clearly seen, which was typical of products tankers and just a little aft of midships are 2 square shapes, which are the platforms for the 2 cargo hose cranes, one each side. The angle of the image means we cannot see the actual cranes, although I feel they would be quite visible in a side view. Pity GE doesn’t do StreetView for rivers, isn’t it? There are no cargo hatches to be seen.
    It is interesting whilst in GE to scroll along towards Basrah, to the left in the picture. There are many wrecked vessels lying around up there.

  • John B

    Alasdair Reid,
    Whatever the national debt has been before, I think the UK is facing bankruptcy like never before.
    I recommend this from The Taxpayers’ Alliance:
    http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/realdebt.pdf

  • Paul Marks

    It was a very good programme.

    However, as you remind us with Jon Snow, it was hardly a normal Channel 4 event.

    One good programme – even a very good programme (and, I repeat, it was very good) does not justify the existance of Channel 4.

    Still I hope it opened some minds.

  • Paul Marks

    Yes J.P. is correct there are some other good programmes on the Channel Four.

    As for the defence of state policy…….

    I was unaware that most people depended on the State for their income (either working for it or getting welfare from it) during the time of King John.

    In fact even during the Roman Empire only a small minority of people depended on the state – basically the army, and the people in a few cities (such as Rome) who got the dole.

    The vast majority of people were peasants – who were tax payers, not tax eaters.

    A system where MOST people are tax eaters just will not work – the basic point of the programme, but one which some people still seem unable to understand.