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The Scottish Justice Secretary says that hate speech in people’s own homes ‘must be prosecuted’

Sometimes I try to think of a funny or attention-grabbing way to introduce a news report that I will link to in a Samizdata post. The following report from the Times grabbed my attention without artificial aids, as it should grab yours. It is not funny.

Hate crime bill: Hate talk in homes ‘must be prosecuted’

Conversations over the dinner table that incite hatred must be prosecuted under Scotland’s hate crime law, the justice secretary has said.

Journalists and theatre directors should also face the courts if their work is deemed to deliberately stoke up prejudice, Humza Yousaf said.

The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill has been condemned by critics including the Scottish Catholic Church, police representatives, academics and artists. It will introduce an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics, including disability, sexual orientation and age.

The bill is loosely based on the Public Order Act 1986, which outlaws threatening, abusive or insulting words and behaviour but includes a “dwelling defence” that states the threatening language cannot be prosecuted if it is spoken in a private home.

Mr Yousaf said that there should be no “dwelling defence” in his bill. He told the Scottish parliament’s justice committee that children, family and house guests must be protected from hate speech. He told MSPs: “Are we comfortable giving a defence to somebody whose behaviour is threatening or abusive which is intentionally stirring up hatred against, for example, Muslims? Are we saying that that is justified because that is in the home? . . . If your intention was to stir up hatred against Jews . . . then I think that deserves criminal sanction.”

Mr Yousaf said theatre directors and journalists should not be exempt from the bill, to prevent activists stoking tensions under the cloak of dramatic licence or freedom of expression. He said: “We wouldn’t want to give the likes of Tommy Robinson a defence by saying that he’s ‘a blogger who writes for The Patriot Times so my reasonable defence is that I am a journalist’.”

35 comments to The Scottish Justice Secretary says that hate speech in people’s own homes ‘must be prosecuted’

  • Totalitarianism on full display, no exaggeration. Time for the tumbrils to start rolling. Seriously.

  • bobby b

    “Nearly all children nowadays were horrible. What was worst of all was that by means of such organizations as the Spies they were systematically turned into ungovernable little savages, and yet this produced in them no tendency whatever to rebel against the discipline of the Party. On the contrary, they adored the Party and everything connected with it… All their ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children.”

    George Orwell, 1984.

  • llamas

    “We wouldn’t want to give the likes of Tommy Robinson a defence . . . .”

    And there you have it.

    llater,

    llamas

  • Hanging is literally too good for these barstewards. We need to go back to drawing and quartering.

  • APL

    “Hate crime bill: Hate talk in homes ‘must be prosecuted’”

    I guess they now have unfettered access to the microphone on your ‘SMART’ TV, or Alexia, SIRI or whatever, or your ‘SMART’ phone. Not just your personal phone, but anyone who brings such an instrument into your home.

    And then you see something like this.

  • I guess they now have unfettered access to the microphone on your ‘SMART’ TV, or Alexia, SIRI or whatever, or your ‘SMART’ phone. Not just your personal phone, but anyone who brings such an instrument into your home.

    Too much hassle dealing with the RIPA nonsense. No, the “Professional Offence Takers Collective” will provide more than enough accusations to fill the Scottish Sun and other local rags here. The main purpose is as a chilling effect on those who oppose Wee Jimmy Krankie and her band of demented porridge wogs in their eternal search for some means of conning the Scots into voting for Independence.

    Like the Alex Salmond court case this is just another mechanism to silence opponents and those who start running “off message”.

    Heil Sturgeon!

  • Martin

    Of course, what is meant by “inciting hatred” does not include the bog standard muslim view of “infidels”.

    “In June 2020 he was critiqued online for complaining that Scotland is “too white”.

    Why does anyone who is not completely stupid vote for evil shit like this racist, totalitarian, muslim prick?

  • It will introduce an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics, including disability, sexual orientation and age.

    In practice, I think it will also introduce a duty of expressing hatred of those who lack such characteristics, and a special duty to express hatred of any who have them but are guilty of treason to their identity group. It may become imprudent to be obviously one of what Stalin called ‘the silent ones’.

    BTW if you ever see Niall Kilmartin (Stirling) change into Niall Kilmartin (not saying where) then you can assume I’ve decided to post to Samizdata under the nominal protection of Boris, Priti et al rather than than the protective custody of Humza Yousaf.

    Lest this seem self-pitying, I’ll remark that I still think bobby b and Ellen have the right to tell me that the dangers of my location are much less than the dangers of theirs.

    there should be no “dwelling defence” in his bill

    There shall be no hiding place for hate – except of course in Edinburgh in the parliament building, where hatred shall be freely expressed in word and in law.

  • BTW if you ever see Niall Kilmartin (Stirling) change into Niall Kilmartin (not saying where) then you can assume I’ve decided to post to Samizdata under the nominal protection of Boris, Priti et al rather than than the protective custody of Humza Yousaf.

    Yeah. You won’t find “John Galt” listed in the Perth and Kinross electoral role either (edited or not), nor the Telephone Directory (although why these still exist is a mystery to me). Far better to piss into the tent of Scottish politics from an anonymous dark corner.

    Might need to expand my use of the VPN to all content rather than just dodgy downloads from PSARips.

  • bobby b

    “Lest this seem self-pitying, I’ll remark that I still think bobby b and Ellen have the right to tell me that the dangers of my location are much less than the dangers of theirs”

    For me, not for long. Shortly after the election, I’m off to become “bobby_b (itinerant).” In my essentially upscale neighborhood, I see that I’m one of the few to have not made the voluntary contribution that buys the small “BLM” poster that everyone else has in their front window somewhere, presumably a lamb’s-blood talisman of sorts. But I don’t think it will save them.

  • NickM

    I’m moderately surprised nobody on this thread has has written about a fairly obvious link… so I will…

    Now if you take Covid and AGW seriously then this might seem a bizarre time for certain folks (and it ain’t just government by a long chalk) to get aereated over the absolute minutiae of “discrimination” in all its assorted and increasingly convoluted forms*. It might seem to a rational person this is a Class A case of fiddling whilst Rome burns (or dies of plague).

    But… You’d be looking at it all wrong… All three issues: AGW, Covid, “Equality” are the same to the wannabe Masters of the Universe. They are all opportunities to increase control and reduce liberty. So the fact that there are 13% fewer Pakistani computer programmers** is just as important a thing for governments to act on as melting ice-caps or plague because the end result of the actions taken by governments will be the same: increasing governmental power. The actual size (or indeed the very existence) of a threat is completely irrelevant if what you really care about is persuing the Big Picture which is to build a Global New Jerusalem***.

    I hope nobody here takes the last sentence of the above paragraph to indicate I’m into conspiracy theories. Not at all. I think it’s maybe more of a Zeitgeist type thing and probably more dangerous for that. See my first footnote.

    Anyway… there is hope. On the other side of Offa’s dyke you can now buy bicycle pumps, cling film and tampons. See the largesse of our masters! All praise them!

    *Nicola Adams who is a black lesbian who has excelled in a traditionally male sport is the latest to be JKRowlinged for making very obvious statements about trans women. Basically she thinks they shouldn’t be allowed to compete in her sport as women which is based on sound physiological evidence, evidence as scientifically as sound as having weight divisions in the noble art. It really comes to something when a black lesbian violates the arcane rules of Wokestan.

    **Over whatever – I just made that one up as a hypothetical example of the sort of thing that gets undergarments tangled.
    ***Obviously

    *a New Jersalem without Jews, obviously.

  • Rudolph Hucker

    Will this include some Scottish folk’s outraged opinion of the perfidious English?

  • Are we comfortable giving a defence to somebody whose behaviour is threatening or abusive which is intentionally stirring up hatred against, for example, Muslims?

    Yup, because what these arsesholes define as abusive and threatening is to the rational, normal and sensible, merely an exchange of opinion.

  • APL

    Niall Kilmartin: “I’ve decided to post to Samizdata under the nominal protection of Boris, Priti et al rather than than the protective custody of Humza Yousaf.”

    You might be better off in the Isle of Mann, what may become a latter day Malta.

  • You might be better off in the Isle of Mann, what may become a latter day Malta.

    The Manx are a bit paranoid about letting COVID run lose around the island at the moment, which is why they’ve gotten a bit extreme, jailing people for relatively trivial breeches of the island’s COVID rules.

    Coronavirus Information
    Important information for visitors regarding Coronavirus (Covid-19)

    UPDATE 29.06.2020

    Visitors:

    Travel restrictions remain in place and the Isle of Man is still currently unable to accept visitors (following the announcement made on Sunday 22nd March by Chief Minister Howard Quayle MHK), with the exception of residents from the Bailiwick*

    * On Thursday 25th June 2020 it was announced that the governments of Guernsey and the Isle of Man have agreed to form an ‘air bridge’ allowing travel between the jurisdictions without the need for self-isolating on arrival. Both jurisdictions have very similar measures in place for border controls from other locations, and robust testing and contact tracing capabilities, and neither have seen a new case of COVID-19 for several weeks. The air bridge will operate from mid-July for a period of 6 weeks initially (updates on schedule to follow shortly).

    We hope you can understand our position and ask for your continued patience as we continue with our exit from lockdown for the benefit of our residents. We look forward to welcoming you in the future when it is safe to do so.

    Until then… Stay safe, stay extraordinary!

    Returning residents:

    This guidance is for Isle of Man residents who left before the borders closed on 27 March 2020.

    If you are a returning resident who meets the following criteria:

    You are a resident of the Island, as defined in the Regulations
    You did not leave the Island on or after 6 a.m. on 27 March 2020
    You can return to the Island via specially designated transport, providing you are not displaying any symptoms of COVID-19. Spaces on sailings and flights will be allocated on a first come first served basis and people will still have to quarantine either at home or an approved location on arrival to the Isle of Man. For further information please read: Repatriation Guidance

    [LINK] – Manx Government Coronavirus Information

  • Paul Marks

    This is entirely logical – from the point of view of the “Woke” (including most of Big Business).

    The (Frankfurt School of Marxism influenced) education system of most Western countries now teaches that certain opinions are crimes – even if the thoughts are unexpressed (hence “white silence is violence”) – it is hard to prove thoughts (although technology is marching ahead – and soon it may be possible), but words can be proved.

    Nor is this some Scottish thing – Scotland is just a little bit ahead, the rest of the West will catch up in the prosecution of Thought Crime (after all the basic principle was conceded in the United Kingdom as long ago as 1965).

    In the United States the 1st Amendment (Freedom of Speech – and of Religion) will be exterminated by the Supreme Court Justices that will be appointed by “President Biden” – he is not even denying his desire to “pack” the Supreme Court by increasing the number of Justices.

    By the end of 2021 Thought Criminals will be punished in the United States – not just by the Woke Corporations (who have been pushing totalitarianism for years), but also by the violence of the government.

    The cackling laughter of K. Harris is the future.

    And the “mainstream” media will dance with joy, watching the Thought Criminals punished.

    There will be no other media other than the tyranny loving “mainstream” – Fox News is already adapting to the new regime. Those who do not submit, will be dismissed.

    In the vision of George Orwell – the future of the West will be a boot stamping down on a human face, forever.

    Or at least till the new tyranny (a Dark Age made more worse by perverted science and technology) collapses – as society collapses.

    There will be no shortage of people to enforce the tyranny – thought crimes are natural targets for the various British police forces, and the FBI is already rotten to the core (see how they have covered up the financial and other crimes of the Bidens – for years). They will adapt very easily to being the police of a totalitarian system.

  • Duncan S

    Thanks Paul Marks: Having just watched Lord Sumption, and now read this, I may as well check out now! 😉 🙄

  • Ferox

    There is no principle of governance, however brilliantly conceived, nor any organizing document, however eloquently written, which can preserve from slavery those who desire to be slaves.

  • Mr Ed

    So the Village People song ‘YMCA” with the line ‘Young man, there’s a place you can go.‘ clearly stirs up hatred towards bored, indolent, uncertain, impoverished young men on the grounds of age and sex, both protected characteristics.

    So there you have it, the Bill seems to cover almost anything, ideal for the SNP, the police and the courts, and Probation Service, Social Workers. Lots of work.

  • Phil B

    @ John Galt

    We need to go back to drawing and quartering.

    No doubt some shyster lawyer would make hanging, drawing and quartering run concurrently and minimise the deterrent. After endless appeals funded by Legal Aid at the expense of the taxpayers, of course.

  • David Norman

    To come back down to earth a little, it does seem that the good people of Scotland have been and are continuing to be slow to realise that the SNP Government is thoroughly nasty. The feedback I get from there is that it is widely considered to be rotten at the day job too. I can only think that for many Scots the alluring prospect of independence outweighs all other considerations.

    Paul, what occurred in 1965 that conceded the principle that thought crimes could be prosecuted in the UK? Would you please enlighten me?

  • bobby b

    “To come back down to earth a little, it does seem that the good people of Scotland have been and are continuing to be slow to realise that the SNP Government is thoroughly nasty.”

    If the people who are voting for that government resemble the people in America who are voting for the Democrats, then I’d say you have a truly representative government. “Nasty” isn’t a bug; it’s a feature.

  • Roué le Jour

    It will introduce an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics, including disability, sexual orientation and age.

    Sorry to drift off topic, but when has age been a protected class? It would seem to me that, if anything, the reverse is true. It’s us old gits who are more likely to object to the depredations of the anarchists and more likely to get hurt as a result. The old bugger in the corner of the pubic bar with half of mild and a roll-up appears to me to be a legitimate target in the eyes of the left.

  • Nullius in Verba

    “Paul, what occurred in 1965 that conceded the principle that thought crimes could be prosecuted in the UK? Would you please enlighten me?”

    I assume he means the Race Relations Act (1965), which introduced an offence of incitement “with intent to stir up hatred against any section of the public in Great Britain distinguished by colour, race or ethnic or national origins”.

    Although of course laws against “thought crimes” date back a lot further.

    The offence of blasphemy was originally part of canon law. In 1378, at the command of Pope Gregory XI, persecution of John Wycliffe and the Lollards was undertaken. However, the only punishment available to the bishops at the time was excommunication. The clergy, dissatisfied with this, forged an Act of parliament, without the assent of the Lords or Commons, enabling the arrest and imprisonment of heretics. In the following year an attempt was made by Parliament to repeal the Act, which prompted a series of prosecutions, and the repeal failed. Not satisfied with their new powers, further were sought and granted under King Henry IV in 1400. These new powers allowed the bishops to arrest and imprison all preachers of heresy, all schoolmasters infected with heresy, and all owners and writers of heretical books. On refusal to abjure (solemnly renounce) or relapse after abjuration, the heretic could be handed over to civil officers, to be taken to a high place before the people and there be burnt, so that their punishment might strike fear in the hearts and minds of others.

    Interestingly, the new hate speech law being proposed in Scotland is also notable for abolishing the common law offence of blasphemy! Yay, free speech! You win some, you lose some.

    There has been a law on stirring up race hate for a long time – since 1965 as Paul says. But even that was far from the first law restricting thought and speech. It’s not a new thing.

  • Eric

    Why is it always Scotland? Well, Australia and Scotland. But mostly Scotland.

  • Agammamon

    Well, you guys had a nice run for a couple of centuries. I guess its over now.

  • That we aren’t rioting in the street over the draconian COVID lockdowns (like Italy and other European countries) tells me that that isn’t going to happen.

  • Mr Ecks

    Widespread LD ignoring is going on and continuing across the UK. It will get bigger as time goes on. It takes time for people to wake up. Blojerk’s likely betrayal of Brexit will add fuel to the fire.

  • (from The American Conservative) “… Finally, the bill formally abolishes the offence of blasphemy – which has not been prosecuted in Scotland for more than 175 years.”

    Those Scots legislators have no sense of irony: abolishing the Christian blasphemy law in the same bill in which they seek to impose a new, secular one.

    They may lack a sense of irony but I can see why that little addendum was included – precisely so that Humza (and Nullius in Verba, October 29, 2020 at 12:32 am) can pretend

    You win some, you lose some.

    We (and freedom) lose some – and are being pointedly mocked by a formality in addition. (It’s a standard argumentation technique: any totalitarian will gladly explain that they are really increasing your freedom, and they can’t make their omelette without breaking some eggs.)

  • The Jannie

    I feel that if the aims of the Frankfurt School marxists were to be printed, with pictures, on the football pages of the Daily Record they would still vote for the Schottische Nazionalische Partei’s fantasy. All the time fishwoman and co. have been shouting independence they’ve been keeping quiet about the reality. which is their intention to have Scotland the Brave become Scotland the vassal of the EU with SNP snouts first in the trough.

  • I feel that if the aims of the Frankfurt School marxists were to be printed, with pictures, on the football pages of the Daily Record they would still vote for the Schottische Nazionalische Partei’s fantasy. All the time fishwoman and co. have been shouting independence they’ve been keeping quiet about the reality. which is their intention to have Scotland the Brave become Scotland the vassal of the EU with SNP snouts first in the trough.

    Independence would leave Scotland struggling to fill a £9 billion a year deficit. That ain’t gonna come from some magical revenue stream like oil, fish, gold or coal. It certainly ain’t gonna come from the EU. The SNP will lie through its teeth about this and other fundamental problems with Scottish independence.

  • Nullius in Verba

    “We (and freedom) lose some – and are being pointedly mocked by a formality in addition.”

    As I keep on explaining, the system remains the same, but the target changes. Society enforces its norms on speech, the norms change but the enforcement remains.

    6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

    7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

    8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

    9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

    “(It’s a standard argumentation technique: any totalitarian will gladly explain that they are really increasing your freedom, and they can’t make their omelette without breaking some eggs.)”

    Authoritarians believe in free speech only for themselves. They only recognise threats to free speech if it is threatening their own speech. They only recognise restrictions on free speech that restrict their own speech.

    So when the target of repression changes, one tribe of authoritarians sees it as more freedom, while another sees it as the birth of a brand new oppression. Each generation grows up under their parent’s rules, overthrow the old restrictions the moment they have the power as part of their adolescent rebellion, which they see as more freedom, and then when they get old are shocked to see the new generation hold their own rebellion, and institute new rules, and the rebirth of oppression.

    Any totalitarian will explain that getting rid of the opposing tribe’s restrictions is really increasing your freedom, and that their own tribe’s restrictions are just part of the natural order, utterly necessary for the protection, cohesion, and stability of society, and they are angry at those who would seek to tear those restrictions down. Every generation tells the same story, acts out the same play.

  • […] In other words, no criticism of the prevailing orthodoxy and power will be tolerated in backyard amateur theatre productions who misstep slightly when they paint their faces blue. If Shakespeare were alive he would most certainly fall victim to the Yousaf Muslim thought police as he penned his latest work where he mentioned in passing that someone who lent him money once might have been a Jew. […]

  • […] In other words, no criticism of the prevailing orthodoxy and power will be tolerated in backyard amateur theatre productions who misstep slightly when they paint their faces blue. If Shakespeare were alive he would most certainly fall victim to the Yousaf Muslim thought police as he penned his latest work where he mentioned in passing that someone who lent him money once might have been a Jew. […]

  • Zerren Yeoville

    Hear that rumbling sound? That’s William Pitt turning in his grave…

    “The poorest man may in his cottage, bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail, its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England may not enter; all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement.” – from a speech in 1763.

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