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Turning Point?

Turning Point UK is getting quite a lot of attention, and I think it deserves a little more, from any Samizdata readers who are hearing about it for the first time, now.

Here is a recent Tweet of theirs:

Young people are waking up to the biased political narrative we receive during our education and we won’t be passive to this anymore.

I want to believe that. I also want to believe that Turning Point UK will stick around long enough and loud enough to do something substantial about it. I don’t assume anything, but I wish them well.

These young people seem to be libertarian-inclined but basically partisan supporters of the Conservative Party. Fair enough. The Conservative Party has suffered dreadfully from the shutting down of the Federation of Conservative Students in 1986, by Norman Tebbit of all people. The resulting ideological vacuum lead directly to the Labour Lite Nannyism of the Theresa May generation of Conservative leaders. If Turning Point UK can merely help to correct that sad circumstance, they will be doing the UK a great service.

10 comments to Turning Point?

  • Mary Contrary


  • Runcie Balspune

    These young people seem to be libertarian-inclined but basically partisan supporters of the Conservative Party.

    This is a given, as socialist ideology is diametrically opposed to libertarianism as it is reliant on authoritarianism to succeed, whereas the more conservative minded these days are able to be less religious and more concerned with individual responsibility rather than state control.

    That is not to say that there are authoritarians of many ilk in the Conservative Party, just that there are more likely to be libertarian aligned and non-authoritarians as well, unlike the Labour Party, which by their nature, cannot have anything but a state-controlled society as its primary agenda, and has a tendency to find friends on the more extreme religious/social authoritarian fringes.

  • Roué le Jour

    I take a “generational” view of politics, that is that it’s not the case that the people get fed up with a repressive government but rather that a new generation arises and asks, “Why are we putting up with this exactly?”

  • Paul Marks

    I was active in the Federation of Conservative Students in 1986 when it was shut down (“now we know it must have been a collection of monsters”) – Norman Tebbit (a good man) was lied to. And one of the people who went along with the lies was John Bercow – the then head of the FCS (who helped destroy the very organisation he was head of) a “libertarian” who stabbed FCS in the back – in return for promises for his personal benefit.

    John Bercow is now Speaker of the House of Commons – and a man of worse moral character has not held that position for centuries. Speaker Bercow is an example of everything that is wrong with the glib and shallow political elite.

    As for the man who stood against John Bercow as the head of FCS and who I voted AGAINST (Mark Francis – someone who did not claim any great knowledge of political philosophy, but was loyal to his country and to his word), I have since apologised to him – and he accepted my apology. I was quite young in 1986 and I had yet to understand that what sort of man someone is, is more important than the label (such as “libertarian”) they choose to describe themselves by. I actually met Mr Bercow and was disgusted by him (something in my heart told me he was a corrupt person), but I voted for him anyway (knowing he was vile) – and I am ashamed of my conduct to this day.

  • Paul Marks

    Turning to the matter at hand.

    Rejecting the left is not enough – some really bad forces can say “we stand for liberty, for both the free market and traditional society” – for example only a few minutes ago I was watching a film on YouTube by one of these supposed pro liberty people – “The Rocking Philosopher” (or some name close to that). And under the pro liberty talk he turned out to be just another Nazi – even pushing the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” (I kid you know). I know how such a creature would reply “I am not a Nazi, because I am not a socialist” – no you just push the same anti-Semitic lies. Even the most absurd one such as that Jews controlled American banking in 1913 and supported the income tax and crated the Federal Reserve – in reality Mr Morgan and Mr John D. Rockefeller, and so on, were not Jewish and were not great fans of the of the income tax either.

    If there is going to be a true pro liberty student movement it has to be educated in the truth – not in the lies that the “we are the enemies of the left, listen to us” Nazi types are always ready to push.

    The difficulty is that there is one small pro liberty university in the United Kingdom – Buckingham.

    Most universities lack pro liberty academics – and, thus, lack guidance for students.

    Students may seek truth, but they are likely to be fed lies – BOTH by the academics and by the “alternative” to the academics.

    In the Middle Ages, indeed all the way into the 19th century, students did not seek to go to a PLACE – they went to seek guidance from thinkers they respected who happened to be at a certain university.

    I speak now to the young…..

    If you are interested in politics, or history, or economics, of philosophy, what living thinkers do you admire?

    Go to a university that the thinkers you admire teach at – it does not matter if it is not a “good” university. A university is really good or bad on the basis of who teaches there – NOT on the basis of how old it is, or some other irrelevant matter.

    A student movement can provide some guidance – but what is really needed is to study with great minds when you are young, you need to seek out these teachers. And if they do not exist or you do not seek them out (by going to the university they teach at) then your time in academic life will be a nightmare of wasted opportunity – of youth that has been THROWN AWAY.

    Listen to my words – do NOT do as I did (fail to seek out academics I respected), do NOT waste your life as I have done.

  • bob sykes

    Nearly all students spend most of their lives being brainwashed into socialism. Hardly any will ever shake off that indoctrination.

    Your only hope is that some Prince will stage a coup d’etat.

  • Paul Marks

    Just lost a comment – try again.

    “bob sykes” (most likely not the comment writers real name – but it may be).

    Most students, including Princes, are open to ideas – good ideas, as well as bad ideas. The problem is that there are not enough universities with pro liberty academics. If you would turn your attention to this problem you might do some good Sir – rather than talking utter rubbish about a violent take over of power “some Prince will stage a coup d’état”.

    However, at least you have not trotted out the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” unlike that cretin the “Rocking Philosopher” and for refraining from that, I thank you Sir.

  • Runcie Balspune

    Nearly all students spend most of their lives being brainwashed into socialism.

    I don’t think it is that straight forward.

    Both “right wing” and “left wing” hide their authoritarian side and espouse their liberal side.

    When you are young and inexperienced in work, the social liberalism of the “left” is more attractive than the economic liberalism of the “right”, conversely the economic authoritarianism of the “left” means nothing to someone without an income.

    As both libertarians and socialists are (in theory) socially liberal, only the latter has enough clout in the political arena, consequently it is little to do with brainwashing and more that it seems to be presented as the only choice.

    Later on, as many will discover, the leftist economic authoritarianism bites, and the social liberalism begins to wane, so there is a drift towards the “right”. Unfortunately too many are willing to give up their social freedoms in exchange for more cash (lower taxes) and social authoritarianism begins to creep back in.

    The issue is where on this journey can libertarianism can take hold.

    The older and wiser are more likely to turn to libertarianism, especially those who retained their socially liberal views from youth, but then the threat of splitting the anti-socialist vote becomes an issue, most libertarians would end up being nose-holding Tory voters.

    The young don’t value economic liberalism until it is too late, and the socialists have way too much influence, even the fatality of socialism is of no concern, it is difficult to overcome and compete.

    The narrative is being controlled by socialists, the standard trope of “if you are not a socialist then you are a fascist” is a lot more frightening in this age of social media and information overload. The people running Turning Point probably don’t mind being called nasty names, but that wont apply to their supporters. This may end up being just a wing of the Tory party, and be ridiculed for being such (by the left).

    Perhaps they have an answer – jolly goo luck to them.

  • Paul Marks

    R.B. – people who do not value liberty often have not been taught about it.

    And people like the “Rocking Philosopher” are very clever – he certainly conned ME the first time I listened to one of his talks (I think it was on Austrian School of economics), but then a friend pointed out he that he had also posted on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (and other stuff) and the scales fell from my eyes.

    One can listen to someone who seems quite reasonable – for example mocking people for complaining that most of the paintings in a Scottish Art Gallery are white, of course they are white most people in Scotland over the centuries have been white. But then (without warning) the same person will start spreading lies about how Winston Churchill was responsible for World War II (yes Gavin McGuiness I am pointing at you).

    There is no substitute for real scholars in a good university – the trouble is that most universities are now rotten to the core. Just play pens for the left.