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Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]

Samizdata quote of the day

“Since the country [UK] seems to be heading back very rapidly to the 1970s it is worth asking: just what is keeping people in Britain, especially young people?”

Ross Clark. He’s clocked the fact that far from net immigration being an issue, the challenge over the next few years is persuading anyone with a pulse to stay in the UK, if the prospect is of high taxes, weak growth, and all the rest of it.

27 comments to Samizdata quote of the day

  • Apex

    Immigration restrictions in the “places to go”, at least where high skilled legal employment is concerned. And a comparative sparsity of “places to go” as the factors affecting the UK are mirrored to a certain degree or even more in other Western countries from the US to Australia.

  • Martin

    It’s curious then that despite the UK having been a high tax, low growth, low productivity growth country for well over a decade, net immigration is still very high. Also despite Brexit and continual promises by Tory governments to reduce immigration.

    I appreciate it’s a newspaper column but I would have liked a bit more evidence about why India, South America or Eastern Europe are realistic places for many Brits to emigrate to. The fact that he refers to English speaking private schools suggests he’s only talking about the wealthy. Strongly doubt they’ll be a new era of £10 poms heading to these new frontiers of globalisation.

  • Mark

    @Apex, Martin

    Precisely, go where?

  • Peter MacFarlane

    US, Canada, Australia/NZ are all impossible to emigrate to unless you’re young, highly qualified (preferably in medicine), or being moved by a big employer, or have connections/existing passport/dual citizenship etc.

    Everywhere else is, at present, even less attractive than the UK, plus language barriers.

    Most of us are stuck.

  • Alex

    I have been thinking of emigrating to Canada. I could qualify for one of the provincial nomination programmes or for the federal programme with my specialist skills. However I am increasingly concerned that doing so might be leaping from the proverbial pan, as Canada seems bent on proving itself just as or perhaps more authoritarian than the UK.

    (Relevant to the discussion as I am relatively young, I get the feeling I am one of the younger people commenting here.)

  • Nicholas (Unlicensed Joker) Gray

    Alex, you would also need to speak French. That reminds me- what are working conditions like in France? If you hire someone, is it almost impossible to fire someone? And is the rest of Europe as bad, or with worse conditions?

  • Martin

    Canada seems bent on proving itself just as or perhaps more authoritarian than the UK.

    From what I can see, England is still the sanest major ‘Anglosphere’ country, although that’s not saying much these days. Canada is probably tied with New Zealand or Scotland for the most insane.

    Given that the author of the article mentioned Eastern Europe too, it’s curious that they don’t mention it is harder for Brits to move to EU (I doubt the author suspects Belarus,Russia, Serbia or Albania are tantalising emigration options for overtaxed Brits!) countries now it is no longer a member state, and this will also put a damper on emigration too.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Alex: I have been thinking of emigrating to Canada.

    I would wait for Castro’s son to be out of power and a saner government in Ottawa before hitting the exits.

  • Alex

    Alex, you would also need to speak French

    Le français est ma langue maternelle. Well, sort of. My mother was a highly proficient linguist who was determined that I would grow up speaking French so I learned it before English but no one else spoke it around me so English won out as my truly native language. I am not the polyglot my mother was but I can understand most major European languages reasonably well, but I don’t speak them fluently. My daily languages are computer languages; same aptitude, different application.

    Technically you don’t need to speak French for provincial nomination except obviously for Québec, but you get a certain amount of points for fluency in English and French.

    Martin, Johnathan: exactly, I am very concerned about the points you raise.

  • Paul Marks

    It will be much worse than the 1970s – due, PARTLY, to a much greater population (deliberately created by Mr Blair and others – via their encouragement of mass welfare immigration).

    But an obvious question is where would young people, and not so young people, go?

    Back in the 1970s people went to such destinations as California – someone would have to be stark staring bonkers to go to California now. Talk about “from the frying pan to the fire”.

    The Western World may well be in its death agony – there have been many warnings of this over the years, but nothing was done to prevent it.

    The international elite think everything is going their way – their banks (backed by the Central Banks – such as the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve) create lots of money from nothing (money-from-nothing – which, somehow, is not fraud) and “lend” it (at sweetheart interest rates) to corporate entities – who use it to buy up real assets (such as land) before the value of the money falls, real assets which people are forced to sell because of high taxes and endless regulations. The Cantillon Effect – but on a scale that Richard Cantillon, three centuries ago, could not have dreamed of in his worst nightmares.

    “You will own nothing” (forget the “and you will be happy” nonsense) is the plan – with corporate (“public private partnership”) owning everything, the government bureaucracy merged with “private” corporate bureaucracy – that is the plan. A form of socialism that does not kill the bankers and other such – but is actually controlled by the bankers and other such Corporate types. A merger of Big Business with the state – as in the dreams of Saint-Simon two centuries ago, his totalitarian ideal.

    I suspect that it will go horribly wrong for the international elite – I will not be alive to see it, but I do hope it goes horribly wrong for them.

  • Paul Marks

    Uruguay has had some terrible governments over the years – but the present one seems O.K.

    It is clear who owns what land in Uruguay (that is unusual for a Latin American country – in many Latin American countries you can “own” a farm only to find that the next day you do not own it, because armed men have turned up and taken it from you), fairly honest courts, and no Covid lockdown or FBI.

    “Paul, have just agreed with the Economist magazine, it likes Uruguay” – well we cannot disagree on everything.

    Paraguay has much lower taxes than Uruguay – but the “no one is quite sure who owns which land” thing is a bit of a problem.

    But given all the farmland, people are unlikely to starve in these countries.

  • Steven R

    Peter MacFarlaine wrote: US, Canada, Australia/NZ are all impossible to emigrate to unless you’re young, highly qualified (preferably in medicine), or being moved by a big employer, or have connections/existing passport/dual citizenship etc.

    Or willing, at least in the US, to just hop the border. Once you’re here, we’ll shovel social services and welfare your way, you can work for cash and never need to bother with taxes, go to any ER for medical care and never pay a time, send your kids to taxpayer-supported schools, and know that sending you back from whence you came is never going to happen. In some places like LA, you can even get local government jobs and register to vote!

  • I live in the USA, and there’s one thing many Europeans, British, and others do not understand about the place: it’s BIG. I drove from southern Minnesota to southern Texas to visit my sister. It took three days on the Interstate highways, and we weren’t sightseeing along the way. (We did the sightseeing on the way back.)

    There are fifty states, each with their own laws and customs. Some tend towards collectivism, some towards libertarianism, and some don’t exactly pay attention to either term. You can move to another country within the USA. You’ll still have to live with the Feds, but you get your choice of the people surrounding you. And the language is more consistent than that in England, I am told.

    There are benefits to size.

  • Paul Marks

    Ellen – yes, but the FBI, and the other Federal thugs, can go anywhere.

    I know the Federal Government was never supposed to have the “police power” – but it has gradually taken it. They hate such things as locally elected sheriffs, and anything else that is in the way of their tyranny.

    Till the evil (and they are evil) people in control of the Federal bureaucracy are removed – no one in the United States is safe, no one.

    I hope they will be removed – but as of right now, their power is very great.

    The Federal Security State, including the Conviction Machine that is the Federal “Justice” system (where the only people to be found innocent are the guilty) needs to be systematically dismantled.

    Electing a President, such as Donald John Trump, from outside the system will not work – whilst the evil (and it is evil) Federal system itself remains in place.

  • bobby b

    Peter MacFarlane
    October 24, 2022 at 9:23 am

    “US, Canada, Australia/NZ are all impossible to emigrate to unless you’re young, highly qualified (preferably in medicine), or being moved by a big employer, or have connections/existing passport/dual citizenship etc.”

    The US, at least, is incredibly easy to emigrate into, so long as you have no professional credentials which you would like to bring with you. Unskilled ditchdiggers by the thousands simply walk a few hundred yards and they’re in. But don’t try to bring in your law license, your medical degree, your programming background, your PhD from abroad. Your body may enter – but leave your money-making capabilities at home.

    So, come on in, but only if you’re willing to start your life over.

  • bobby b

    “You can move to another country within the USA.”

    This is so true.

  • JJM

    “Canada is probably tied with New Zealand or Scotland for the most insane.”

    Er, no. Unlike those two, Canada is a federation. The national government, no matter how “woke” it might seem, cannot simply impose its whims on the 10 provinces.

  • bobby b

    “Unlike those two, Canada is a federation. The national government, no matter how “woke” it might seem, cannot simply impose its whims on the 10 provinces.”

    Like the US, the federation is meaningful only when the states/provinces display some independence. When they concur in the wokeness, they not only go along with the national government, they endanger their own future independence by ceding their powers to the feds.

    I would count large portions of Canada – mostly the urban parts – as lost for decades. Not a great destination choice for liberty-seeking people.

  • Zerren Yeoville

    Everywhere has drawbacks. But there is also the option for those who are financially independent or who can work remotely, of not actually living in any one place on a full-time basis, known as the ‘perpetual traveller’ lifestyle. It does require that you not get too attached to ‘stuff’ as you will need to travel light as you will be relocating every few months in order to keep your status as a tourist not subject to local tax regimes, so it’s not for everyone. The tax aspect also doesn’t work for US citizens who are subject to taxes based on citizenship rather than residency (at least, as long as they remain US citizens).

  • To Mr. Marks: I was a recipient of some fine British computer scientists and software developers from the 70s and early 80s, those that fled to my home state of California when it was still a great place for technology startups, so I can personally confirm your statement. Yes, it’s anecdotal, but until somebody gives me a fat and juicy grant that’s about as much as I can contribute.

  • Phil B

    My concern is the way that “net” immigration figures are quoted which conveniently ignores the change in demographics.

    If, for the sake of the discussion, 5 million white, well qualified British people with marketable skills emigrate a year and 5,000,001 third world country people whose only skills are shooting AK47’s and herding goats immigrate, then you have “net” immigration of ONE per year, so absolutely nothing to worry about, eh?

    Demographics is destiny. When I worked in the Midlands about 18 years ago Leicester was, even then, almost 100% Asian and I note that there are ongoing recent “tensions” between the Muslims and Sikhs.

    Britain will become like the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul – it was built as a Christian cathedral and still physically exists but it is now a mosque. Britain as a geographical entity will still exist but it will not be Britain as we know (or remember) it, taken over by people whose culture, beliefs and way of life are totally at odds with Britain of, say, 1939.

  • Steven R

    Importing millions upon millions of people who don’t have any shared culture, no desire to assimilate, and only want someone to provide for a better life at someone else’s expense can have no other outcome.

  • Paul Marks

    Thank you, Mr Iskra.

    I remember various people telling me about California when I was young – how the unions did not dominate everything (this was when Ronald Reagan was still Governor – Governor Brown brought the unions into State government services, and things gradually, gradually, got worse after than) and how, unlike Britian, a person could get a telephone installed without having to wait for weeks or months.

    Even the television shows made back in the 1970s seemed to be friendly – with none of the vicious hatred for white-straight-men that one sees in Hollywood television shows and films today.

    If someone had said to me then that all the small business enterprises in California would be closed under the excuse of a disease – a disease that somehow only hit small business enterprises, not the vast corporations, with a third of those small business enterprises not reopening, I would have declared them paranoid.

    As for a State Government of California, and a Federal Government of the United States, fanatically dedicated to the sexual mutilation of children – back in the 1970s or 1980s I would have thought there was no chance at all of such a state of affairs ever coming into existence.

    The state of such cities as San Francisco now, with savages (of all races) living on the streets, defecating everywhere, leaving around needles, and attacking anyone they see – is a tragedy. But the worse tragedy is the ordinary voters of California – brainwashed (indoctrinated) by the education system and media.

    60% of the voters of California declared that Larry Elder (a black man of humble background) was a “White Supremacist” – because the Corporate Media told them so.

    Governor Newsom has signed into law such outrages as the sexual mutilation of children, the murder of babies (even a month after birth), and the censorship of medical doctors who tell the truth about Covid and other matters.

    Yet Governor Newsom is likely to be re-elected in two weeks from now.

    it is not hyperbolic to say that California is damned.

  • Paul Marks

    bobby b – you are correct.

    Some American States, for example South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming and Nebraska, did not have a LOCKDOWN – but no Canadian Province resisted the demands of the international Corporate State (of which the despicable Mr Trudeau is a puppet). It is forgotten now that it was Donald John Trump who refused to impose the lockdown on all States (as the international elite demanded – and the corrupt American courts would have declared lawful). I was wrong about Mr Trump – I strongly opposed him in the Primary contests of 2016 and said things of which I am now ashamed. He could have been a lot better than he was – but he was on the right side (unlike so many Republicans – who turn out to be cowardly scum, or worse).

    Ellen – it is not just the FBI and other Federal thugs (and they are thugs) – it is also the monetary and financial system.

    Wherever you go in the United States you will be dominated by the fiat Dollar and the Credit Bubble banks.

    Dishonest people (including one we had on Samizdata) pretend that when the Constitution talks of gold and silver coin it does not really mean it – and the fiat money and Credit Bubble banks are just fine. In which case why call a Constitutional Convention at all – why not just carry on with the “not worth a Continental” fiat money of the old Continental Congress. And they also pretend that national banks (such as those created by the Civil War era acts – and the, vastly worse, Federal Reserve of 1913) are Constitutional as well.

    May the lies of such people turn to ashes in their mouth.

    However, we are where we are – the monetary and financial system of the United States is totally unsound – it is essentially a “Cantillon Effect” system to enrich a small elite at the expense of everyone else.

    And, alas, that is also true of all other nations.

    I am reminded of the Roman legal scholars who admitted that slavery was against natural law – but said that as all nations practiced slavery nothing can be done.

    Fiat money and Credit Bubble banking are also against natural law (both economic law and moral law – for they are fraud), but we are in a similar position to the Ancient World and slavery – it is wrong, horribly wrong, but universal.

    However, the system will destroy itself. In spite of the plans of the international elite to carry it to its ultimate (and diabolical) extreme of “digital money” with every transaction known to, and controlled by, an international Corporate State.

  • 60% of the voters of California declared that Larry Elder (a black man of humble background) was a “White Supremacist” – because the Corporate Media told them so. (Paul Marks, October 25, 2022 at 3:16 am

    Whereas you can argue that the two 4000-fake registrations-each fraudsters caught in California in 2020 were caught because they were greedy (and you can also argue against that), that very suggestion reinforces the idea that the 300-ballots-in-his-car guy caught during the recall election by purest chance (the car check was nothing to do with vote fraud suspicions) should be seen as a simple randomly-sampled data point. It would be irrational to assume that the guy never had hundreds of ballots in his car on other days in that election period, or was the only activist or hireling in California prepared to go beyond the formal rules. Also, while the numbers per person may be much less, consider the millions of illegals in CA who can vote if they wish to and who have a motive to do so. And I could go on.

    Thus there is considerable scope for replacing 60% with a lower percentage of real people legally entitled to vote who chose Newsom over Elder, and more than a few even of these would jokingly or casually or even sadly admit (if they thought they were not being recorded) that they didn’t actually believe Elder was a white supremacist.

    Cold comfort in some ways, but I see no need to view things as (even) worse than they are.

  • Steven R

    Universal suffrage may not have been the worst idea ever, but it’s in the running.

  • Charlie G

    October 24, 2022 at 8:10 pm

    Er, no. Unlike those two, Canada is a federation. The national government, no matter how “woke” it might seem, cannot simply impose its whims on the 10 provinces.

    Having lived there and with a Canadian spouse, I can confidently say that whilst JJM’s assertion is true in theory, reality is different.

    My overriding impression of Canada, from my time there, is that it is very much like Germany but without the efficiency.