Our leaders usually condemn the disorder and violence that follows, but will refuse to discuss the triggers in any depth. Anyone who asks what can be done about horrors like that inflicted on Stephen Ogilvie will be accused of stoking division, exploiting a tragedy and courting the far right.
But something can and must be done. It is simply no longer sustainable to force working-class communities to endure such levels of terror, to bear the brunt of the elites’ open-door experiment – to pay the ‘blood price’, as Brendan O’Neill describes it, of the establishment’s virtue-signalling. Practically every day brings new horrors that ordinary folk are simply expected to put up with. On the very same day as the Sudanese suspect was charged with attempted murder, four Afghan nationals appeared in court, all charged with the alleged rape of a Bristol schoolgirl. From gang rapes in Brighton and grooming gangs in Norwich to child rape in Warwickshire, countless British citizens continue to suffer at the hands of men who shouldn’t be here. Yet this barely seems to trouble our cloistered political class.
The suspect alone should have to answer for his actions through the justice system. No group should ever face collective punishment.
Exactly so. Every great evil in the history of ever has been caused by treating persons, not as individuals but, as members of a group. Every damn one of them.
Indeed, but I blame the establishment for getting the UK to where this was certain to happen at some point
I don’t disagree. But what is the solution?
The likely solution — not the solution that i favor, but the solution that seems likely unless serious reform (or rather, Reform) is undertaken — is one that you’ll not like to see.
— Is it something to do with the Irish character that the revolt started in Northern Ireland?
What is the Irish character?³
Successive governments had absolutely-no difficulty in passing laws that outlawed the ownership of “dangerous dogs”. Everyone knew that Dobermans and ‘pit-bull’ terriers and the like could be wonderful, harmless, loving pets, but when enough of them did bad things, they were simply all outlawed. (Doesn’t stop people from owning and breeding them, of course. Criminals gonna criminate – who knew?)
I submit that you’re reaching the same sort of thinking with regard to unchecked immigration from certain parts of the world, and the volume and nature of the crime that some of these immigrants seem to inevitably bring with them. Let’s be clear – the Poles and Lithuanians are not the problem. It may be coming time to decide that immigrants from some cultures are simply unacceptable in your society, and will have to go, because far too many of them cannot or will not conform to the mores of the culture they have entered.
How that is achieved – you will not like. President Trump’s administration is doing sterling work in this area, but the stables are truly Augean. I do not think that the idea of mass roundups and deportations will gain any traction in the UK unless and until the persons and families of those in power and in opinion-forming positions begin to be directly impacted by the types of crimes we have seen so vividly in the past couple of weeks. I don’t want that to happen – I don’t want anyone to be hurt, no matter who – but I fear it will take nothing less, and even that may not be enough. Sorry about that.
llater,
llamas
“is one that you’ll not like to see”
As time goes on and if this problem is not solved, the likely result will become one you would probably like to see less and less.
“and will have to go, because far too many of them cannot or will not conform to the mores of the culture they have entered”
The pitbulls are not conforming. But if they get too numerous then it will be you that will have to go and the pitbulls that will get to stay. There will no longer be a Britian because, I guarantee you, that the country’s name will be changed and most of your history will be erased.
@Philip Scott Thomas
I don’t disagree. But what is the solution?
I’m not sure there is a solution, there is such a thing as too far gone, and Britain is so far gone they can’t even see “too far gone” in the rear view mirror anymore.
But if we want to try something it has to be radical. Stop all immigration except perhaps of highly skilled individuals. Deport all illegals. Terminate all visas that you can legally do so. Fix the welfare system so that it doesn’t pay for people to behave badly. Prosecute criminals with vehemence and without regards to race, sex or sexual preference. Prosecute criminals the the full extent of the law. Change British institutions to celebrate and teach British-ness as a good thing, and all the great things Britain has done. Tear down the outrageous anti free speech rules.
Of course the British state will do none of these things. And of course it is well nigh impossible in Northern Ireland because, apparently, Britain is not allowed to have a border there and the government of Eire is so far left it makes Elizabeth Warren look like a MAGA activist.
FWIW, I do find a small amount of irony in this situation. I mean the guy who did this deserves a short drop with a rope around his neck: a short drop, not a long one. But this is Northern Ireland. I grew up in the 80s and 90s The amount of violence that I read about and saw on the telly in that location of the most vicious, merciless and cruel character easily matched this horrible event. And it was every week, and the perpetrators were as lily white as I am.
What is the old Joke? The IRA pulls over a car in Belfast, and drags the Jamal out onto the pavement pointing his AR-15 at him: “Are you a Proddy or a Catholic?”, he demands. “I’m a Muslim” the terrified victim sobs. “Aye, but are you a Proddy Muslim or a Catholic Muslim?”
These events are responding to collective punishment, not introducing it.
We tried ‘peaceful’ for years. Nobody listened to us.
You just called us ‘Far-right, fascists, xenophobes, islamophobes, homophobes blah blah etc.’
Just a few thoughts from this morning’s reading:
”Mass deportations were always the moderate option” … NB: ‘WERE’ That ship has sailed and those who detest our western way of life must be driven out … Britain must be made ‘unwelcoming’ … You will blame us but this is all down to YOU because you DIDN’T LISTEN to the people who had to endure your ‘social experiment’
”The politicians were mistaken when they thought there was no limit to our enforced ‘tolerance’ To how much ‘diversity and enrichment’ they could rub our noses in.
That tolerance ran out onto a Belfast Street along with the blood of an innocent man attacked and gravely injured because of their policy follies.”
I’ve watched the film of the attack, and seen the pictures of the victim’s shattered face … I don’t feel fear and I do not feel revulsion for this hideously injured poor man Stephen Ogilvie.
What I do feel revulsion and utter repugnance for is the type of beast (There is no other word to suitably describe the sub-human filth Hadi Alodid) that we are allowing to be imported into Britain (And Ireland) on YOUR WATCH. People whose religious ideology and barbarian cultures allow them to inflict this terrible amount of damage on another human being and tell them they are doing the work of some imagined, dark age deity.
I wish him, like Vickrum Digwa, the racist murderer of Henry Nowak, ‘interesting times’ in prison and then deportation if they survive to be released.
I wouldn’t put money on them being alive to finish their sentences though. The only true ‘justice’ they will receive comes from those also behind bars with them.
Didn’t that joke actually become reality when the census form wanted to know whether atheists came from a Catholic or Protestant background?
@Fraser Orr
Indeed. The first step when you realise you have a problem is to stop making it worse – hence the reasonable first step of halting immigration (if only from certain parts of the world).
However the first first step is to get The Powers That Be to acknowledge that a problem exists.
Not happening, when what they are currently planning is emergency powers in the Online Safety Bill to stop social media from talking about it.
“Our leaders usually condemn the disorder and violence that follows, but will refuse to discuss the triggers in any depth.”
However, our leaders are perfectly capable of discussing those “triggers” when the violence is unleashed by perpetrators who are darlings of the left. Be it the likes of BLM, or Pro-Gaza, or even environmental campaigners, when they cause violence and damage the poor things are excused for merely venting years/decades/centuries of pent-up anger and frustration. Ironically this could implied that they are simply incapable of controlling themselves, leading to the conclusion that maybe they shouldn’t be allowed out in public; an interesting paradox that is clearly lost on their supporters in politics and the media.
We can talk about the importance of avoiding violence and collective punishment but I can assure you that nothing will happen until the British Establishment is absolutely fucking terrified that they, personally, will be on the end of violence and collective punishment.
If we wait until that fear is generated by our unwanted diversity, then we will be long gone.
The British people, indeed Western peoples generally, did not want this – the mass immigration, plus special “laws” (in the sense of state edicts) demanding people provide the migrants with employment, housing and so on – or be punished for “discrimination” (laws and government benefits and services which no previous group of migrants ever had), and endless “Diversity and Inclusion” indoctrination, and punishment for anyone who rejected the indoctrination (thousands of people are arrested every year for their opinions in Britain – and many more people are punished in terms of employment), was forced upon them.
Can people vote there way out of this? Especially now as natural increase (births) has partly taken over from immigration? And with the establishment more powerful and more ruthless than they were in the past?
I do not know – but people must try to vote their way out of this death spiral.
If “Andy” Burnham wins the upcoming by-election the establishment will take it as proof that they can just carry on destroying the British people – he must be defeated, and the only way to defeat the establishment is for people to unite around the candidate in the by-election who is the most likely to defeat the Labour Party candidate (Mr Burnham).
That is the Reform Party candidate.
Stonyground,
The version I heard was the Sargeant asking the recruit his religion (so the appropriate form of words can be used in the event of his death.) The recruit replies “Atheist” to which the Sargeant replies “And which god is it you don’t believe in?
Something for free-migration libertarians to think about…..
In Victorian times there were no immigration restrictions in the United Kingdom and no “Jim Crow laws” (let alone slavery) either – everyone was free to come here, and there were no government edicts mandating they be treated differently to anyone else.
Yet the country did not receive millions of migrants.
In Victorian times the only welfare immigrants could expect was the Workhouse (you did NOT have to go a Workhouse – but if you choose not to go, and you were not old or sick – if you were an old or sick local person you might get “out relief”, you could expect no help from taxation) – and there were no government edicts (“anti discrimination laws”) compelling anyone to employ or rent accommodation to anyone – of face punishment for “discrimination”.
When there actually was an at least semi free society – there was no MASS immigration in the United Kingdom from Asia or Africa.
Ditto the United States – there were no real defenses on the American-Mexican border in the past, yet vast numbers of people (not some people – vast numbers of people) from Latin America did not arrive till after government benefits and services were created, basically from the 1960s onwards.
Whatever the Cato Institute and others pretend – this is NOT a coincidence.
The MASS immigration from Latin American coming after the establishment of government services and benefits in the United States is-not-a-coincidence.
The Democratic Party is about getting votes by promising benefits and public services – this is what they do, this is the profession of Democratic Party politicians, activists and officials.
If the mass (mass) immigration was really of people who did NOT want government benefits and public services – the Democrats would be AGAINST mass immigration, as providing government benefits and public services in return for votes, is their bread-and-butter – it is what they do. People who are against this – do not vote for them.
Yet the Democrats are wildly supportive of mass Third World immigration – they know their “business” which is providing government benefits and public services in return for votes – whether legal votes or illegal votes. It is not “Trans rights for children” or banning the terms “mother” and “father” that gets the Dems votes – it is providing government benefits and services that gets the Dems votes.
If the mass Third World immigration was of people who did not want these things – the Dems would be against the mass Third World immigration.
Paul,
I find it hard to believe Starmer could care less whether Makerfield replaces one backbencher with another or not. Burnham will not depose Starmer who will see unrest as an advantage and deploy the standard “difficult times” “stay the course” “changing horses mid stream” bullshit favoured by politicians under these circumstances.
The elites are committed body and soul to immigration as is every other western nation. They see it as the only bulwark against the right wrenching control away from them.
Via Instapundit, a substack post that implies that the Irish character does (partially) explain these new Irish troubles.
There is much interesting history in there, don’t know how accurate. Inter alia, Thatcher is blamed for expanding the system of administrative law, and for centralizing British police.
Roue le Jour – you are mistaken Sir, the establishment (“Starmer” as an individual is irrelevant) care about the Makerfield by-election very much.
If they win it is not a matter of who is Prime Minister (again which Labour Member of Parliament is irrelevant – although you are wrong, they would replace Starmer with Burnham) – they would take a victory in Makerfield as a sign that the public do-not-care – not really.
The British are good at grumbling – but if the public continue to vote for establishment candidates why should the establishment care about the public grumbling?
As for the Conservative Party – Sir Edward Leigh (Father of the House of Commons) was correct – the Conservative Party should not have fielded a candidate in Makerfield = and the Reform Party should not have fielded a candidate in South Aberdeen.
I do understand the argument that it is too late to “vote our way out of this” – but we have to try.
Snorri – “King George” did not decide anything, George III did not make policy.
As for Margaret Thatcher – the lady had no love for administrative law or for the centralization of the police (by the way – that happened in Ireland in the very early 1800s, even before state education and the Poor Law tax was imposed), but these trends carried on under Margaret Thatcher – even then power had moved, to some extent, from elected politicians to officials – who controlled what the elected politicians got to see and hear.
Witness the “Single European Act” of 1986 – Margaret Thatcher did not know what the real agenda was, the lady was told it was about “Free Trade”.
By 1990 it was clear the officials and “experts” could no longer deceive Margaret Thatcher any more – as their plans had become so obvious, so they got rid of her.
Keir Starmer, Andrew Burham, and the great majority the House of Commons (including “Conservatives” of the Jeremy Hunt sort) are puppets.
I hoped that everyone around here knew that.
“Stoking division, exploiting a tragedy, and courting the far right”?
Their parade of horribles sounds like an aspirational statement to me.
As I pointed out to some who objected to Trump’s tactics regarding illegal immigration, those actions (and the riots in Belfast, etc.) are now the BEST CASE SCENARIO.
Letting things proceed as before WILL result in WORSE scenarios.
take your country(s) back
remigration is the moderate choice. accept that some cultures are superior to others, and that you shouldn’t sacrifice yours for the vanity of those elites who despise you.
I repeat – if (if) Andrew Burnham wins the by-election next week, the establishment will CORRECTLY conclude that the British people do not really give a damn about anything.
We witnessed all this in the recent case of the Netherlands – the people huffed and puffed about how they wanted to survive, how they did not want to be overwhelmed by the “new people”, and then they voted for a leftist government – in order to have a “quiet life” (i.e. death).
Perhaps the the Bronze Age replacement, at least 90% down the male line, was like this – just people huffing and and puffing (complaining), but not really doing anything to survive.
I wonder: one of the “Democrats” largest constituencies is single women. It follows that it is in the interest of “Democrats” to undermine the family.
But yeah, sure, buying the illegal-immigrant vote is a safer bet.
A good friend, a retired naval officer, commenting on the current US hostilities in Iran, suggested the US would be better served by attacking the UK and France and restoring order there. He thinks they are worth saving and that a large part of the population in each country would welcome it.
I am not so sure.
Snorri – the Dems (and RINOs) created the single women, ideological campaign (but then you know that).
Gregory C.
Northern Ireland is controlled by Sinn Finn (the IRA), the Republic of Ireland is controlled by a group of establishment political groups none of whom could give a damn about the Irish, Wales and Scotland are controlled by far left “Nationalist” parties – that hate and despise the nations (peoples) they control (the peoples who, astonishingly, vote for parties who wish to destroy them – at least go along with the officials and “experts” who do).
And the English will show what they really are next Thursday at the Makerfield by-election – where Andrew “Andy” Burnham will likely be elected in a election created specially for him, he will then be declared Prime Minister “change” – that will change nothing, or makes things even worse.
In short the people of Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England – do not really care about their own destruction, at least they do not care enough to even vote against it.
France seems to be same – every election the right “almost” win, but never win.
Paul,
We’ve put our money down and in a week’s time we will have the outcome. It is quite likely that my confidence in Starmer Über alles will prove misplaced.
I share your dismay at the apathy of the electorate by I can’t blame them as remember being in the same place myself. When struggling to hold one’s life together it easy to assume the government is at least patriotic if misguided. To come to the conclusion that it is a government of occupation attempting to destroy the nation both economically and socially is to become a conspiracy nutter and nobody wants to be that guy.
Amen. Most people have enough on their personal plates without having to worry about who is King. I think that’s why us oldsters – like me, people with too much time on our hands – get so involved and invested in this stuff.
I know my kids – 30’s, all – think I pay too much attention to it. Oh, but they’ll learn. Boy, will they learn. 😉
“But something can and must be done. It is simply no longer sustainable to force working-class communities to endure such levels of terror, to bear the brunt of the elites’ open-door experiment – to pay the ‘blood price’, as Brendan O’Neill describes it, of the establishment’s virtue-signalling. Practically every day brings new horrors that ordinary folk are simply expected to put up with.”
Fraser Myers, I find your challenge verbose. In challenging a commie, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
Roue le Jour.
If (if) the people of Makerfield (and it is an overwhelmingly English constituency – it is not a matter of “Diversity”) vote for Andrew “Andy” Burnham – it shows that the people of England do not really care about the mass migration and the natural increase of these hostile populations, if they will not even vote against it – they are certainly not to do anything else.
Northern Ireland is controlled by Sinn Fein (the IRA) – that is an evil fruit of handing over the education system and the broadcasting media to them – the Belfast “Good Friday” Surrender Agreement, which we all supposed to celebrate. And Sinn Fein IRA are NOT Irish nationalists – they do not give a damn about the Irish people, Sinn Fein IRA are full on “Diversity and Inclusion” supporters.
Scotland and Wales have been controlled by the left since the 1990s – under “Devolution”, and when the left horribly fail, the people of Scotland and Wales react by voting for the left again-and-again – for example in Wales the “Party of Wales” is just as leftist as the Labour Party, and in Scotland there is no real difference between the SNP (who are NOT nationalists – they are like Sinn Fein IRA, FAKE nationalists who really support rule by the International Community) and the Labour Party.
England we have already covered – anyone who thinks that replacing Sir Keir Starmer with Andrew Burnham will make a difference for the better, is an idiot. It is one establishment puppet being replaced by another establishment puppet.
Let us see how many such voters there are in Makerfield.
If (if) the people of Makerfield (and it is an overwhelmingly English constituency – it is not a matter of “Diversity”) vote for Andrew “Andy” Burnham – it shows that the people of England do not really care about the mass migration and the natural increase of these hostile populations, if they will not even vote against it – they are certainly not to do anything else.
Nonsense. If the people of Makerfield vote for Andrew Burnham it will show the attitudes of the people of Makerfield. You cannot extrapolate from one constituency to the nation as a whole.