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Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]

Samizdata quote of the day

It is a huge mistake to blame this [anti-Semitism] on Corbyn alone. This did not all appear out of nowhere, Corbyn is just the obvious pustule on a much deeper problem underpinning collectivism

– Perry de Havilland

14 comments to Samizdata quote of the day

  • You’d almost think formally-controlled collectives don’t want to deal with subpopulations who stick to separate customs, values, etc.

  • Frank S

    Famous quotations. I’m not very good at them. Who said ‘How can I be a socialist, and not be anti-Semitic?’ for example. Was it Corbyn? Or McDonnell? Or George Bernard Shaw? Or someone else entirely?

  • Paul Marks

    Paul Johnson is only one of many people who has pointed out that Karl Marx’s rantings against the Capitalists are taken, almost word-for-word, from Martin Luther’s ratings against the Jews.

    Partly this was part of Dr Luther’s general antisemitism (after all Mr Hitler was able to quote, and NOT out of context, long passages from Dr Luther), for example Dr Luther (in)famously cut out the first and second Books of the Maccabees (and other Books of the Bible he disliked – although Dr Luther left in the Epistle of James in spite of this “Epistle of Straw” contradicting Dr Luther’s Justification-By-Faith-Alone doctrine), because the idea of Jews revolting, and defeating, a Prince (a war justified as the common people defending their religion, by arms, against the Prince) did not mesh with his, Dr Luther’s, political opinions.

    However, at the core of Dr Luther’s hatred of the Jews (and for Karl Marx’s hatred of the Capitalists) is the doctrine of “Social Justice” – once a theologian (or secular thinker) has embraced this evil doctrine, antisemitism is very likely to follow. If one holds that all justified income is from physical work, and business and commerce (especially finance – money lending) is “EXPLOITATION” of “the workers” – then one is going to hate “rich Jews” who do not work-with-their-hands. I was working with my hands for nine hours straight (1800 to sometime after 0300 – although I did urinate once) last night and early this morning – but Dr Luther would simply point out that I am only half Jewish so my example does not count (and if I was fully Jewish – Dr Luther would simply say I was lying).

    And that is just as true of Roman Catholic theologians who go down this dark path (such as Father Coughlin – see his far LEFT magazine “Social Justice”, and remember he attacked President Roosevelt from THE LEFT) as it is of Protestant theologians (or atheist thinkers) – once one has embraced “Social Justice” with the “EXPLOITATION” and “Power Structures” doctrines – then “DEATH TO THE JEWS” is the likely end point.

    “But Paul Karl Marx was from a Jewish family” – so were many famous Jew baiters, as for Dr Marx “what is the religion of the Jew? Hucksterism! What is the God of the Jew? Money!”

    “What is the religion of the Jew? Hucksterism! What is the God of the Jew? Money!” – these I am sure are sentiments which Mr Jeremy Corbyn would agree with – just as so many British socialists (including the leading FABIANS – such as Mr and Mrs Webb, who were behind keeping the Jews out of the British Mandate) agreed before him.

    As for those Jews who embrace “Social Justice” – such as those Jewish Americans who continue to vote for the Democratic Party (the Party of Social Justice – and, these days, of lots of ISLAMISTS as well). Well sometimes turkeys DO vote for Thanksgiving.

  • Paul Marks

    A couple of related points.

    I have no idea if “Lex Luther” (the lead baddie in the “Superman”) was named after Dr Luther or not – but I doubt the old story, the idea just seems a bit too “neat” (and by the 20th century the Lutheran Church was NOT known for antisemitism – so there was no reason for the Jewish creators of “Superman” to target Luther).

    Judaism is passionate about human agency (Free Will) – so much so that even the secularised Jews of the golden age of Hollywood and television were strongly influenced or inspired by this teaching (nearly every Science Fiction series of the golden age of television has characters struggling against conditioning, brainwashing, – and a very high proportion of films and television shows had people transforming their lives by via human agency). And Dr Marin Luther was a passionate Determinist – as his war-of-words with Erasmus shows.

    Was Dr Luther’s antisemitism at least partly philosophical? Again I do not know.

    Dr Luther’s theological and philosophical teachings (his Predestinationism and his Determinism) are also very similar indeed to the mainstream view to be found in Sunni Islam (although there are some dissenting Sunnis – and there is also Shia Islam). Shia Islam was little known about European thinkers in the 16th century (the time of Dr Luther) – but Sunni Islam was well known. Was Dr Luther influenced by Sunni Islam? He could hardly say so (as the Ottoman Empire was invading European lands in his life time – bizarrely Dr Luther first urged NON RESISTANCE to the Ottoman invaders), but it is certainly possible – although Dr Luther claimed just to be just going back to Augustine.

    Full disclosure – Karl Barth (and other Continental theologians) claimed that British Anglicans (I say “British” not “English” – partly because I am not English, but also because I am thinking of the Church of Ireland and the Church in Wales as well as the Church of England) have a deep bias against Predestinationism and against Determinism (formally not quite the same – but often allied), indeed that we are (at heart) “all Pelagians – even if they have never heard of Pelagius”.

    Of course the Church of England is, sadly, no longer interested in theology – having gone down the “Social Justice” rabbit hole (which will lead to “Free Palestine!” and the rest of the standard death-to-the-Jewish-exploiters stuff).

  • Nicholas (Unlicenced Joker) Gray

    So, what do you REALLY think, Paul? No need to keep it short!

  • Paul Marks

    I do not think what I wrote was particularly long Nicholas – and, looking at it again, I do not see how it could have been shortened.

    After all I did break what needed to be said into two separate (although related) comments.

    There are a few typos – but nothing hard to understand.

  • Mike Freeman

    Paul Marks….I didnt think it was long…in fact have been looking for a decent explanation of typical jew hatred to pass to my lefty friends so I may borrow! Ta.

  • Mr Ed

    There is nothing quite like a triple broadside from the Sage of Kettering, when he puts in three longs posts in a row. I always read them, and he will usually identify the root of a doctrine or at least a preceding (foul) doctrine from which we can learn. Sadly, it seems that there is more by way of foul doctrines that we can learn from, there are a thousand ways to hate and destroy, but relatively little that has not been devised before in some form or other. However, if we are to recognise evil, and its origins, we should know the background. Here we only got two barrels, but still a fine spectacle.

    I don’t think Mr Corbyn is anti-semitic, it would be too much doublethink even for him, I suspect that his analysis is always based on a degenerate Marxian view, and there is always room in his black heart for the individual who is on the ‘right’ side of history. I doubt that Mr Corbyn would ever approve of a Jewish joke, never mind laugh at one, and would take exception to comments or violence against Jews as such, quite sincerely. It’s just that when being ‘Jewish’ overlaps with any form of sympathy for or support for Zionism, then he would object to that, as a good Anti-Imperialist. When it comes to domestic matters, if he sees a ‘Jewish capitalist’, he sees a capitalist, and so an enemy of the lumpenproletariat that is his party’s natural base (along with the public/voluntary sector bourgeoisie), but not a Jew.

    When he sees the rantings against Jews from his more fanatical supporters, I am sure that he sees healthy if sometimes embarrassing anti-Imperialist sentiments of those driven to distraction by the evils of Zionist Imperialism. When he finds himself in Tunisia at a terrorist’s funeral, it wasn’t a satnav error on the way to visit sites from The Life of Brian, and he would not claim that it was, it was just his support for anyone, however murderous, who stands up for ‘the oppressed’. Yes he spends more time hanging around with terrorist apologists than he ever did campaigning for justice for Marine A, but his mission is to fight for socialism and to support those who would destroy Imperialism and the West, because to him, they are good people, and I suspect that he is genuinely baffled that not everyone can see the World as he does or appreciate the distinctions, the evil, capitalist hyenas and running dogs that they are.

  • Aetius

    What is clearly needed is for the Sage of Kettering to write a short book: “Foul Doctrines” covering the main foul doctrines and their pedigrees.

    More narrowly on topic, the Sage has continued my education by explaining why protestant editions of the Bible are missing books that the Catholics have, and more importantly the Lutheran origin of Marx’s anti-semitism.

  • Paul Marks

    Aetius – it should be said that Martin Luther never actually DID anything bad, he was the 16th century equivalent of the “keyboard warrior”, threating X,Y,Z, (burn the synagogues and so on) in his writings, but never actually hurting anyone.

    And the Lutherian Church (the church of J.S. Bach and Mendelssohn) cringes about a lot of his writings (and not just about Jews – the stuff about women, “either wives or whores”, and peasants and …….) – even centuries ago people were pointing out that Martin Luther was very ill a lot of the time (especially as he got old) and in terrible pain. Certainly Lutherians have NEVER claimed that Dr Luther is the perfect model of conduct.

    However…..

    There is something very odd about the theological position of Martin Luther.

    This was a person who rejected two legs of what the theologian Hooker was to call the three legged stool of reason, tradition and scripture.

    Martin Luther rejects tradition and (like Thomas Hobbes and David Hume later) rejects “that WHORE” reason – leaving only SCRIPTURE.

    But then the same Martin Luther turns round to scripture (to the Bible) and says – well I do not like these books of the Bible so I am going to cut them out, and even books I do leave in (such as the Epistle of James) I am going to dismiss (“Epistle of Straw”) if I disagree with them.

    What the bleep?

    Rejecting both tradition and reason and saying that scripture is the ONLY authority – but then treating scripture with utter contempt.

  • ragingnick

    The charge of anti-Semitism has often been used to try and smear and destroy the defenders of Liberty, particularly by Marxist outfits such as the SPLC and the ADL. Murray rothbard wrote about the menace of anti anti semitism .

    That said there is of course much satisfaction to be had in seeing the Left being hoist by its own petard.

  • The problem is, that between Jeremy Corbyn’s stated position of anti-Zionism and his apparent position of anti-Semitism the vast majority of the people (myself included) cannot see the difference.

    Thus Jeremy Corbyn might be on the side of the gods in simply rejecting the position and propaganda of the Government of the State of Israel, but to us stupid working class types it looks like good old hatred of the Jews and we’ve all seen where that road leads to.

    I’ve been to Auschwitz and seen what the collectivists did to the Jews last time they came to blows. It ain’t pretty and I suspect that most people don’t see any reason for allowing a political difference of opinion to lead to genocide. Yet again.

    I can understand Britain’s Jewish communities feeling a bit twitchy and keeping packed suitcases on hand. I think I would be a bit nervous too if I was in their position.

  • Mr Ed

    JG,

    The problem is, that between Jeremy Corbyn’s stated position of anti-Zionism and his apparent position of anti-Semitism the vast majority of the people (myself included) cannot see the difference….
    I can understand Britain’s Jewish communities feeling a bit twitchy and keeping packed suitcases on hand. I think I would be a bit nervous too if I was in their position.

    When, under the next Labour government, it all gets ‘out of hand’ and the pogroms start, the British Jews (and other capitalist elements targetted) will have the meagre comfort of Mr Corbyn’s cigarette paper of self-justification and self-exculpation, knowing that his reason for ignoring their plight and failing to see what is before his eyes, like a shifty football manager who has won a match by his players cheating but with deadly consequences, is a technicality that keeps his socialist conscience clean.

  • Mr Ed, February 25, 2019 at 11:41 am, you are more trusting of Mr Corbyn than I would be. I would agree with you so far as to say Jeremy has the air of someone who gets into national socialism from the socialist side – and so might leave it again by that same side, were fate so kind to him as to put sufficient obstacles in the way of his many failings.

    However I think the double-think would not be too much for him if a less kind fate were to encourage him with enough apparent chance of winning and enough apparent danger to that victory if he thought about it too clearly. All of his ways of ‘seeing’ the rantings of supporters are ways of training him in that double-think.

    there is always room in his [Corbyn’s] black heart for the individual [Jew] who is on the ‘right’ side of history.

    There was room in Hitler’s black heart for the individual Jew who was on the ‘right’ side of history.

    After a long private conversation [with Heydrich], Hitler decided, as reported by Himmler, “that Heydrich was a highly gifted but also very dangerous man, whose gifts the movement had to retain. Such people could still be used as long as they were kept well in hand and for that purpose his non-Aryan origins were extremely useful; for he would be eternally grateful to us that we had kept him and not expelled him and would obey blindly.”

    Thus Reinhard Heydrich, who became the engineer of the Final Solution, was allowed to join the SS, persuaded thereto by his wife, despite Himmler receiving reports of his Jewish ancestry – reports which, it is superabundantly clear, Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich himself all believed. (IIUC, the question of whether Heydrich did in fact have Jewish ancestors has never been resolved.)

    In the early 1930s, German students voting Nazi would assure their Jewish professors that it was the evil Jewish financiers, not them, whom the Nazis would oppose. In the early 40s, the same students were looking the other way, or defending the final solution, as Herr Professor was deported to the east.

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