I will be spending good sized chunks of the year in Laramie, Wyoming over the next few years due to the company I and my partners in space formed this month. With a part-time return to the free world in the offing, I am (as one would expect of a Samizdatista) looking forward to the renewed exercise of that most basic of human rights, without which the rest are at someone else’s sufference: the Right to Self Defense. I have some preferences in this regard, but I do not consider myself a know-it-all or even a know-it-mostly on the pros and cons of current firearms.
I lean towards two handguns, one for hidden carry and one for open carry. Basically one for town and one for country, where the former is for defense against two legged varmints and the other is for discouragement of four-legged or no-legged varieties one might acciidentally annoy while fossil hunting. I lean strongly towards the Glock 27 for a hidden carry piece. I have been partial to it ever since Russ Whitaker introduced us about four years ago. For back-country I have long felt that Colt Revolvers have the history of reliability and effectiveness I would be looking for, but I am not sure whether a better choice would be the classic Colt .45 or a Colt .38. I can not see a need for the stopping power of a .45 unless I decide to play with Grizzily bear cubs while mama is watching… something I have no intention of doing.(*)
I would love to hear some discussion on others experience, especially any native Wyomans. The majority of my firearms experience is with the typical western Pennsylvania type target and hunting rifles and shotguns; also I am not familiar on a personal basis with the likely threats and behavior of wildlife outside of those Pennsylvania hills.
I would also appreciate information on appropriate Wyoming training courses as I am fully cognizant that after 17 years retraining is the responsible thing to do to ensure the safety of myself and those around me.
There might be statists in them thar hills…
Photo: Dale Amon, All Rights Reserved
* No, I would really, really not want to face an angry mama bear with something which would probably only piss her off unless you got it just right while retreating at high speed in the opposite direction…
I’d worry about winter clothing before guns.
However that is a problem I know how to solve and a risk I know how to deal with. I have in my life been skiing at some -32F… I am also aware of the need to carry emergency gear in the trunk in winter and did so when I last lived in the States.
I cannot reccomend anything better than the 10mm Glock. It will stop anything you may ever come across. There is the full size and the concealed carry version. If you enjoy hunting it is also very suitable for deer with the extended barrel.
It also the most badass handgun ever made. 😉
I have found that handguns are very, very much like guitars: a matter extremely intimate to one’s own personal touch. Never ever have I held a 1911-style autoloader that felt right in my hand.
I will never give up my Beretta 92FS.
I wouldn’t know how to sort this out from others’ recommendations.
I have no advice for you, but the photo reminds me of how so very much of America is quite beautiful
I love the model 1911’s. My Kimber “Custom Classic” is a joy – accurate, reliable, and has excellent stopping power.
See what I mean? This is like arguments over Gibsons vs. Fenders. In the end, I say, “Shut up and play yer guitar.”
I keep 147-grain Hydra-Shoks in my trouble mags, and I don’t worry about stopping power. But I say everybody should shoot what they like.
Personal weapons are, well, personal. It is difficult to recommend a handgun without knowing a great deal about you. Handguns are kinda like clothes: you need to consider the application, how it fits and how it appeals to you. You might want to find a range that rents guns and shoot a few dozen different weapons.
Pick a gun you like. If you like your gun, you will carry it with you more often than if you don’t like it. Even if it’s the kind of gun that us gun nuts laugh at. A single shot .22 Derringer in your hand when you need it is WAY more valuable than a .45 auto at home in the safe.
One thing you should NOT do is get hung up on the technical jibber jabber which is so dear to the gun nut’s heart. This is what happened to me when I first started carrying arms. It left me with a safe full of handguns I rarely use and a big, gaping hole in my savings account.
The best advice I can offer is to think carefully about how, where and when you’ll be carrying your gun and then find something you like that more or less meets the parameters. And keep in mind that no gun does everything well.
If it’s any help, you can go by what my family uses. Both my sisters and I carry the same type of sidearm: a snub nose revolver. Mine is a .38 in a pocket holster, one sister carries a .22 in her purse and the other carries an antique (but reliable) .32 in her daytimer. My dad carries an old police revolver that is rusty and beat up but still shoots well. My mom has a .22 target revolver she keeps in her glovebox and carries pepper spray in her purse. My dearly departed grandmother carried a .44 magnum revolver in a holster sewn to her skirt, ate lutefisk right outa the cask, cussed in Norwegian, and died at 101 years of age in the same Alaska cabin where she gave birth to her three kids. Grandma was a tough old bird.
Good luck with your decision, whatever it is.
So far as hand gun choice, whatever fits your hand, is reliable, and in the biggest caliber you are comfortable firing two full magazines/clips with. Hand fit is the most important. A large caliber is no good if you can not control it and hit your target.
10 mm is a good choice. I prefer SIG and Beretta over Glock, but that is just me. I like the fit of the Beretta, but I like where the controls are on the SIG’s. Worth looking at while shopping.
Like Bill, I have never found a 1911 style that fits my hands. They are made pretty much only for people with LARGE hands. Average folks have trouble with them.
For revolvers, Smith and Wesson is arguably the best choice of manufacturer, though others like Ruger and Taurus also make a quality gun. Colt is strictly a government sycophant now, no real presence in the private market.
.38 is about a small as I would choose for a revolver for any defensive use, unless you get a lightweight gun like a titanium/scandium model, that have almost no weight to absorb recoil. Again, larger calibers are recommended. If you choose .38, go for .357, since that give you the choice of that or .38 special in one gun. Check out 44 or 45 and see if you are comfortable with them as well.
Since this is for back country use, I recommend against a Ti/Sc gun, since you sill likely want the weight to enable use of a stronger round in whatever caliber you choose. I have a Ti .38, and that thing stings my hand like a sumbtch when I fire it.
For training courses, I do not know Wyoming but I can highly recommend FrontSight just outside Las Vegas, Nevada, from personal experience. Which is not THAT far in U.S. travel terms from Wyoming. Since you are already crossing the Atlantic and half a continent…
Check them out, since it can take a while to sign up for a course. They want a background check and all that. Anoying, but in the U.S. for a place as aggressively and publically pro-gun as they are, needed.
(Also, being in Nevada, you could engage in other ‘liberty related’ activities that are uniqly, (in the US), legal in Nevada, should you so choose, “wink, wink, nudge nudge, say no more”).
As usual, Samizdatistas offer good advice. Go to a range in Wyoming, and you’ll soon find that any three gun enthusiasts will be happy to provide at least five irreconcilable opinions. There’s no substitute for actually firing enough different guns to be able to choose. Get the one you feel most comfortable with, and, most importantly, one you can consistently hit the target with.
Oh, and don’t shoot at bears with handguns. It won’t work. Make noise, get a dog, best of all, just avoid bears.
CFM
You need not pay the price a new (“new” meaning post-1950 or so) Colt SAA costs. There are excellent and affordable alternatives. The Italian firm Uberti makes fantastic guns and they are common in the US.
Their SAA clone, the “Cattleman” is outstanding and comes in several barrel lengths and an array of finishes. .45Colt is perfect for an open carry weapon, and is my favorite revolver chambering.
Also consider the Uberti “Outlaw”. It’s a reproduction of the Remington 1875 Army revolver. In my opinion it is the full equal of the SAA and is much more attractive. I love the looks of it, and I carried one concealed (with a 7 1/2” barrel, no less) here in Texas for a while until I was forced to sell it. If we ever get open carry here I will be forced to buy another.
It you are left handed as I am, the Outlaw will be better. While the loading gates on both the Outlaw and SAA are on the right side of the frame, the Outlaw’s ejection rod handle is on the right side as well. It’s my understanding that both weapons were designed for cavalrymen, whose right hands were perpetually occupied with riding.
Uberti website
You’ve picked probably the best caliber for self-defense (two-legged variety) there is. You’ve picked one of the best guns in that caliber. The only thing I might suggest is you consider the Springfield XD, or if you have more money to burn a SIG or HK USP. With those two you have a de-cocking option that makes the already unlikely event of an accidental discharge even more unlikely.
Don’t let any crusty old guy tell you a .45ACP has more knock down power than a .40 S&W. It doesn’t. Compare Corbon’s Pow’r Ball. The .45 has 550 ft lbs of energy to the .40’s 586 ft lbs. Every which way you look the .45 loses to the .40 in terms of stopping power. It takes a .45 in +P to equal a .40.
unfortunately, you may have a problem with carrying concealed as a nonresident of Wyoming. according to packing.org, wyoming does not issue concealed carry permits unless you have been residing in the state for at least six months. They do allow open carry, and in Wyoming, that’s probably a viable option most places. Concealed carry without a permit is illegal, though.
Yeah, everybody will give their own opinion, and that is the right choice for them. You’ll figure it out for yourself after you shoot enough different guns – it always works out that way.
I own quite a few mentioned already, including a 1911, a S&W .357, a S&W .44 mag, and a Beretta 9mm.
I carry a Glock 27. A tiny gun in a manly cartridge that will work forever under the worst conditions. That isn’t why I carry it, though. I simply shoot better with that gun than any other I own. The very first time I shot it I put everything in the X-ring – I’ve never had a natural fit like that with any other gun.
Doesn’t mean it will work for you, but the Glock 27 is an excellent place to start.
I won’t even get into the bear argument…
The problem with grizzly bear protection and hand guns is hitting one that is running low in your direction at 35 mph. That is a tough shot even for an expert combat marksman.
I won’t be so presumptive as to tell you what to carry but the .38 PS is worthless except for hari kari and I don’t think you are into that. Whatever you decide for bear think about pepper spray for a auxillary weapon.
PS Don’t worry about Wyomingians.. they are very friendly.
For US State laws, visit
http://www.packing.org/
It appears you need to live in Wyoming 6 months to get the concealed carry permit.
For good advice on parameters of handgun purchasing (not specific make and models) see these (Link) threads (Link).
Finally, for the best pictures visit
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
Common wisdom is to use a .357 or a .44 magnum if you are going to use a handgun in bear country. If you are going near Grizzly bears, get a cheap Remington, Winchester, or Mossberg pump shotgun with slugs.
I was of course joking about the bears… unless I did something stupid or had really bad luck I doubt I’d be bothered by them, and I would think the sound of a gunshot might be sufficient to make it hightail it, so long as it wasn’t cornered and defending a cub.
Going for bear with a handgun requires absorbtion of brain matter into increased ball size.
Something I would be more worried about are mountain lions, assuming you even saw them coming if they were indeed thinking of you as game.
I would consider wildlife protection with a gun in most cases a matter of scaring it away unless you were in a last resort situation.
As to rattlers, you watch where you walk, and you are careful around rock crevices. Beyond that, they are a fairly honest critter that lets you know it would rather you took a different path. At least that’s the way the Pennsylvania variety behaved. They were there but you really had to go out of your way to ever actually see one.
However, if you traipse about the back country long enough… it is best to be prepared.
Ditto the argument about S&W .40 being a better round than .45 ACP. I’d go further and say that .357 Sig is even better than both. More kinetic energy, feeds better, and can be double-stacked(as can .40). That said what they told us at a 3-day pistol course at the Tac Pro range here in Texas was that shot placement trumps velocity and weight of the round every time. Also, there is no such thing as knock down power..no significant momentum in a handgun round..not even that much in rifle rounds..otherwise it’d also knock the shooter flat on their arse. That doesn’t happen, so why should the subject shot be throw back? A doublestack is something very worthwhile, on the other hand. One neat trick in a gun fight is to be able to stay in the fight longer than your opponent, ideally unshot. Having more rounds is a huge help, according to the ex-SBS guy who teaches the course and runs the show at Tac Pro.
Re guns, that guy was a fan of Glocks. He carried a Glock 34, and routinely drop kicked it across the concrete floor, that kind of thing, to drill in that it’s not a “my precious” type of object. It’s a tool that you need to learn, not fetishize.
Personally, I have ONE GIGANTIC PROBLEM with Glocks: They are so light, and work in such a way, that you MUST “push to target”, if you want the next round to feed. Facts on the ground seem to be that in gunfights, even police only use a double handed grip about half the time, because of the constraints of the situation, never mind the proper stance and all the rest,. On top of that there is adrenaline, panic, tunnel vision. Usually you’ll empty your gun, however many rounds there are in it. In a concealed carry situation, the draw is going to be very messy, very far from ideal, in a great many scenarios, and you’ll be one handed in a bad stance. SO, buy a pistol (or revolver) that’s going to feed the next round no matter how you’re holding it. My Sig P229 in .357 Sig does this beautifully. So does my Sig P232 in .380 auto(summer carry). The Glocks I’m aware of do not pass this test. Don’t buy one if it doesn’t pass that test…
My 2 cents.
As to the Wyoming hidden carry, I do not thing that would be a prob lem since I will be getting paid in Wyoming, have a Wyoming address, am now an officer of a Wyoming company. It will probably be next summer before I would be purchasing in any case… I am just starting the selection process now so I have plenty of time to mull it over and look for good deals.
And, btw, I thank you all for the thoughtful discussion. Keep it coming.
We have long linked to packing.org under the ‘Useful tools’ link in the ‘other resources’ section in the sidebar
I agree with the bit about a short pump shotgun with slugs. It’s a very handy thing to keep in your truck or home.
There are tiny shotshells in pistol calibers, too. .45 Colt shotshells are pure hell against snakes and vermin. They can be had in most calibers from .22lr on up.
As others have suggested, the selection of personal handguns is, well, personal. I am a NRA Certified Instructor in both Pistol and Personal Defense, and have considerable experience carrying handguns both openly and concealed. Here are my Humble picks:
For concealed carry, my choice is a SIG Sauer P229 in .40 (although you have other caliber choices for this model). It has a more traditional double action, compared to the Glock. I believe the Glock is also an excellent choice. Many people love the consistent trigger pull of the Glock pistols.
For open carry I really like the full size 1911-style .45 pistol. This is my favorite: http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_tactical_elite.asp A big pistol like this handles the .45 cartridge well. If you are going to carry a single action 1911-style pistol in the “cocked and locked” configuration (the only way I carry it), you need to be very familiar and good with it.
Good luck with your selection. I recently discovered your blog, and I really enjoy it.
Humble Patriot
Kabul, Afghanistan
I shied away from the 1911 for the same reason some of the others gave about it. It has a reputation of being a gun for guys with big hands. I’m a 5’8″ guy with a guitarists hands that can do a 5 fret stretch so I discounted it as a primary weapon. That said, I have always just liked the look of it and if I decided to have a 3rd, I am pretty sure that would be it.
I understand there is a new model 1911 out now but I have not actually seen any but the old ones in person.
Hmm. I knew a guy who claimed he used to hunt down grizzlies that had acquired a taste for human flesh, in Colorado. He told me the most effective weapons he ever used, were a .44 revolver and an air horn. He told me the trick was to use the air horn to surprise the bear and make it rear up, then shoot it in the shoulder area with the revolver.
He swore it worked far better than filling the bear with lead from a full-auto assault rifle. That, he told me, would just make it die right after it had reached you and ripped you in half, but something about nailing it in the underside of either of its front legs where they met the body would drop it instantly, and it would bleed to death before it got back up.
Has anyone else heard of this? I’m certainly not going to test it myself, but if it actually did work, I’d think someone else could corroborate it.
Why not big stopping power?…There are other predators out there….think mountain lions, that are increasingly aggressive and no longer fear man… Whatever gun you use is right….if you can shoot it. In my opinion, .38 is not enough to stop something that’s trying to kill and eat you….and if it’s not trying…don’t shoot it.
If you like the Colt .45, let me suggest you might like even better the Ruger New Vaquero. Look it up, and see if it doesn’t sound like just what you’re looking for.
Personally, I like the old .45 Long Colt round even better than .45 ACP for anti-human use. Like the .44 Magnum, it’s capable of handling a lot of different bullet weights and pressures. You can get ammunition that is perfect for use against people, or ammunition that is capable of handling those grizzlies — if you must, which I understand you’ve no desire to do. Good thing, too.
Amen to all above.
You will probably find that ye olde Wyoming Gunne Shoppe and Shootin’ Parlor will probably have rental guns. I take many new gunnies out for the first time, and let them run thru a variety of pistols and revolvers.
I’m small (but cranky) at 5’5″, and have never had a problem with my full sized Kimber 1911. That can only be a winter carry gun on my small frame.
Your carry pistol needs to be something you are so comfortable with that you are willing to bet your life on it. Better a hit with a .22 than a miss with a .44.
I’m of the side of the snubbie. .357 is the way to go for belly guns. Don’t get an ultra-light – they’re cool but not very comfortable to practice with. And you have to practice. A holster is as important as the pistol and a good one will make the gun disappear on your body. I have at least 4 or 5 for each of my guns depending on the weather and what I’m up to…walking, working, driving, etc.
In the wild get a reliable shotgun or rifle. My trunk gun beater is an SKS that has never failed to feed, fire, or fling in several thousand rounds. My house guns are a shotgun – a reloadable claymore, and a Colt .357. Revolvers and Pump Guns always go boom when you pull the trigger.
My wilding gun is an 1894cs in .357 to match the revolver.
Try lots of guns. Don’t be afraid to like something traditional instead of modern. Pistols are what you use to fight your way to your rifle, so keep that in mind.
Enjoy God’s country.
You might be kept in the breeze wrt getting a Wyoming license. However, Wyoming may honor licenses from Florida, which will issue to non-residents without a problem. packing.org should be able to answer that for you. Florida (or Utah) have an added advantage, in that a large number of states will honor their licenses, and may or may not honor a license issued by Wyoming.
I’d go with only one sidearm, so that you don’t find yourself in a high-stress event trying to (for example) cock the hammer on a pistol that doesn’t have one, or forgetting to disengage a safety because you’ve trained on a pistol that doesn’t. The aforementioned Glock 27, or the mid-size variant of same, the Glock 23, should work nicely. Or, any other pistol whose ergonomics suit your hand and your shooting style.
I would also disregard most discussion of “knock-down power,” based on the fact that no handgun is actually all that powerful. Get something reliable in .38spl +p or 9x19mm or larger, train with it, and load it with about any decent jacketed hollowpoint load, and you’ll be fine. The difference in shooting outcomes between a broken old S&W model 10 .38 and a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range is negligible, and especially when compared to the effect of your training and mental preparation.
There’s an instructor based about an hour south of Cheyenne, Jim Torrez, who has a school called the Tactical Skills Institute. I highly recommend him. I took one of his LE-oriented classes and thought it was excellent. Certainly better than the crap that Colorado POST inflicted on us or the nonsense from the instructors who came out of the woodwork after Colorado went shall-issue.
Threads like this remind me what I love about America – must visit one day.
It is a pity Australia decided to be so narrow-minded over the gun issue. Even in conservative circles, those that don’t support gun control are assumed to be half-crazed heretics.
Dale, I am sure Russell Whitaker will have plenty of handy advice. I used one of his Glock’s at the Frontsight training establishment back in 2002 and it was excellent. I dunno if it is the right size for concealed carry, though, and these things will depend in part on how big your hands are, what sort of clothing you typically wear, etc. But the Glock is extremely reliable, easy to reload and relatively affordable.
I must say that conversations like this remind me why Britain sucks. I am sure you are glad to exchange Northern Ireland for the USA.
I have a 357SIG, too. The reason I didn’t mention it is money. Standard target ammo is nearly half again the cost of the 40. If money is no object, yes, it is superior to the 40.
There’s one thing in particular that perplexes me about the libertarian community and that is its obsession with a tool. What is it about this tool that excites (many) libertarians so easily?
I appreciate that the tool has a place and a purpose and has reason to be appreciated, but then so does a hammer.
Nice to be able to have the option Dale.
Take a look at this, it might be of some use in your evaluation.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot27.htm
Bottom line: trigger, trigger, trigger.
I started out owning the sig 220 and 239. Have tried glocks. All these guns have a long double action trigger pull,
and a medium lenght trigger pull for the second shot. I had to really concentrate
to be on target, becuase the long trigger pull gives you so much time to wobble.
Now I have a smith and wesson 1911, stainless frame and slide and adjustable sights. This is a single action only gun.
The hammer being back and ready to drop may look “scary”, but the gun is safe. The trigger is just perfect. The trigger travel is very short, and I don’t even notice it. My target groups have shrunk to only one third the size they were with the sigs. I never could hit much with a glock.
I suggest you have someone who likes the 1911 let you try one. Small hands are no problem with the 1911, as smaller triggers are cheap, widely available and easy to put in. There are
a lot of companies making parts for 1911s, so there is lots of choice and parts are inexpensive.
So in closing, the most important part of the gun is the trigger. short travel, light and crisp lets you hit your target. Long travel, heavy for the first shot, medium for the next shot.. It is a lot harder to hit your target.
Dale- As a fellow libertarian and fellow Belfastian now living in Arizona, I am also partial to the Glock 27 and it is my regular carry piece. In July I was back home in Norn Iron and totally confounded friends and family with the knowledge that I own a gun. “What do you need that awful thing for?” Hm. I don’t expect to be able to convince them anytime soon.
James, it is mainly because in this ‘enlightened dictatorship’ we are not allowed to own handguns.
Steve
And be it further declared and enacted by the authority aforesaid, that from and after this present session of Parliament no dispensation by “non obstante” of or to any statute or any part thereof shall be allowed, but that the same shall be held void and of no effect, except a dispensation be allowed of in such statute, and except in such cases as shall be specially provided for by one or more bill or bills to be passed during this present session of Parliament.
23rd October 1689
Or are we?
just to add to my 1911 comment above, you might be interested in these two links:
http://www.smartcarry.com/scinvi.htm
http://www.smartcarry.com/cocklock.htm
I don’t think libertarians are particularly obsessed with guns. We just are not afraid to bring them up in normal conversation. I am just as comfortable sitting about talking firearms as I am discussing, say, a vertical milling machine, or the relative merits of different GA planes, or indeed of hammers (I used to do theater tech. I like a wood handle and actually could go on a bit about preferences).
What some folk find strange is that we talk about guns as normal, everyday household objects, somethng that is a part of every day life. The amount of specialized knowledge you would see above is probably no greater than what would have been displayed had I posted a desire to purchase a hot sports car.
There is of course a difference that firearms are closely allied writh individual liberty: few believe you can be free so long as the state has a monopoly on force, so the concept of being armed is on the level of a civic responsiblity for a libertarian.
It is the fact that libertarians do talk about guns as just a part of a normal life which frightens the bejesus out of those trained into a leftish belief set in which this is not a subject for polite conversation.
Well, it is, and we do.
Hammers are rather less effective as tools for defending that most pure example of private property… your life. Moreover, politics is entirely about the use of force. As Mao said, all political power grows out of the barrel of a gun and in a society where civilians own effective combat weapons, there are certain cultural checks and balances that can emerge when the armed representatives of the state know that they are not the only ones with access and recourse to deadly force.
Just my 2 cents on a backcountry handgun.
Have you considered the Ruger Redhawk revolver in .44 Magnum?
I feel very secure in predator country with mine…
Oh.. and I favour SIGs (as one glance at the top of this blog will tell you)… I find the double action smooth and easy for my hands. SIG-226 or 229 (if concealed matters more) in 40 is the way to go IMHO.
I forgot to mention one other thing:
Watch out for mountain lions. They do sometimes stalk humans….
The most important thing about a gun is the ability to use it without hesitation but with good judgment.
I’ve wondered if the best thing we could do for “the crime problem” is to require everyone over 21 to carry a side-arm. I suspect that people would be a lot more polite.
In that light, I mean that the dictatorship denies us the most basic of human rights, you gotta admire this bloke:-
http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/
I think he deseves a medal for what he has done, just think, everyone making the things in their backyard, it would put a whole section of the dictatorship’s ‘food chain’ out of work!
Steve
Dale: “I shied away from the 1911 for the same reason some of the others gave about it. It has a reputation of being a gun for guys with big hands. I’m a 5’8″ guy with a guitarists hands that can do a 5 fret stretch…”
On a Fender or Gibson? Very considerable difference. I’m 6′ 2″, and my problem with 1911’s is exactly opposite: every one I ever held had a grip that felt to me like a 2″x4″ split down the middle. The 92FS feels like a grown-up handful to me.
James: “What is it about this tool that excites (many) libertarians so easily?”
Of course, in a political context, the proper answer is, “That’s none of your business.” In a friendly conversation, however, I would point out that there is more to it than the matter of a “tool”, or even the political angles running from self-defense issues. To me, I appreciate firearms as superb hand-held manifestions of man’s mastery of nature with machines. A lot of it is about the technology, to me. I like cars and airplanes, and firearms fit very well into that whole track of appreciating what man can do with machines and what machines can do for man. I could lock my Beretta away out of sight, but I keep it on my desk mainly as a matter of just bitchin’, lovely, industrial design. It’s a object of art.
Dale: “…indeed of hammers (I used to do theater tech. I like a wood handle and actually could go on a bit about preferences).”
(hah!) Nearly twenty years ago, I used to bang steel on scaff rigs (Pink Floyd, Van Halen, et. al. — hit the link and scroll down). My preferred implement was the Estwing 28 oz. waffle-faced straight-claw battle-hammer. Different strokes for different kooks.
James: one more thing; I don’t imagine that you would deliberately set out to insult us, but your word “obsession” is a damned good start. That’s your characterization, and it’s wrong.
My recommendation for a Wyoming field gun: the Ruger GP-100 .357 revolver with a 6″ barrel. Fun to shoot, not much recoil with the heavy barrel, and accurate. Enough power for whatever comes your way in Wyoming, and very reliable. I paid around $460 for mine, and shoot it every chance I get. As far as a concealed piece, there are many personal factors to consider, so I’ll just suggest that you get an idea of what size you are comfortable with and check out as many models as you can.
I also have a SIG P229 in .357 SIG. Spendy to shoot, but a damn fine piece. Great balance, safety features (decocker) and the billet slide is massive enough to keep recoil down. You can change barrels and use .40 when desired, even use the same magazines. But, as noted by others, expensive.
I looked at my hammer to see what brand it is. The bit with the logo is worn off. I’ve used the same hammer since my father gave it to me in 1966. a 30 oz. framing hammer which has been the only one that feels right in my hand for a long time. Nearby objects are at great risk if I try and use another.
So there you go. We Libertarians are so obsessive, you know. Anyone know the Root Cause of that? You don’t suppose it’s a (gasp) Euro-Centric trait? Or perhaps I’m just too old to be tolerant and inclusive of different tools?
Peace, Love and Cosmic Granola,
CFM
I’d strongly recommend against getting a niche caliber, such as .357 SIG or 10mm. They have their virtues, but they’re less easily available, and ammo costs a lot more. I’ll also say I’m not a huge fan of the .40, but I know a lot of people love it. To me, the .40 is a poor compromise between the 9mm and the .45ACP. It strikes me as not quite as good of a stopper as the .45, and not sufficiently better than the 9mm to justify the increased recoil — which I find to be significant.
For an open carry gun, I’d love the 1911. I love the action, I love the caliber, and I love the way it points. For concealed, I actually prefer a 9mm. I know it’s much maligned, but with a good +P+ police-style round, you can get some truly outstanding performance. For that, you can also get a really small gun with decent capacity, or a moderate sized gun with huge capacity.
If I were to pick two guns from my own collection for the roles you describe, they’d be my Springfield Armory 1911 .45, and my Karh PM9 9mm. Both are fantastic guns, and I’ll never part with either of them.
By the way, if you’re going to go with an old fashioned single action revolver four open carry, definitely chose the .45LC over the .38. The .38 isn’t enough for what you have in mind, and the .45 is a lot less than you seem to think. If you really have in mind a backwoods-type gun, though, I think the best compromise would be a .357 revolver with at least a 4-inch barrel (I hate snub-nosed .357s — you’ll never hit anything with your second shot). A .44 Magnum would possibly be even better, but if you promise to stay away from bears, the .357 should be okay.
Guns for personal defense are personal, I’d carry what ever is comfortable for you. As for interacting with our wildlife, I’d recommend a good 12 ga., a .270, and a fly rod!
In grizzly country it’s best to wear bear bells and carry pepper spray. Also keep an eye out for fresh bear scat. Black bear scat looks much like human scat, and is full of nuts and seeds. Grizzly bear scat looks much the same but is larger, full of little bells, and smells like hot peppers.
Drop me a note when you get to Wyoming and I’ll see if I can’t arrange for you to meet the wildlife:
Swen Swenson
http://coyoteatthedogshow.blogspot.com/
anthony -at- tribcsp.com
Worland, Wyoming
(6 hrs north of Laramie, near Yellowstone)
Thanks for the offer: I’d like that very much.
It will be awhile though… the transition is a slow one. I will be back in Laramie for perhaps 3 days in mid-January (yes, I can imagine…) when we will start setting up infrastructure as well as looking at accommodations and banks etc… As income grows I will be spending a larger and larger share of my time and getting a car for when I am there, at which point I will want to meet up with folk like yourself who can help me go native as quickly as possible 🙂
Don’t buy a HK, the’re nice guns but HK has HORRIBLE after-sale support for civilians.
Get the G27 for concealed carry–there really isn’t anything significantly better for that purpose.
As for non-concealed carry, get a lever action rifle or a shotgun. If a handful of .40s won’t solve the problem a cylinder of .45 or .38 won’t do any better, and the glock is just as reliable as any revolver.
If you’re worried about bear get a .45-70. Otherwise just get a 30-30 and call it done.
Don’t know much about the far north, being an Arizonan, but…
I’m a traditionalist with big hands, and favor the 1911.
Replicas of the 1875 SAA–make sure they are drop-safe. The 1875 and some replicas will fire if you have a live one in the chamber under the hammer and you drop it or anything hits the hammer.
Main worry here is snakes, so a revolver with snakeshot is useful. And never walk any path where there is brush blocking the view near your feet. (In winter that far north this may not be a risk).
As far as momma grizzly goes … for that, even a .44 mag is marginal. You’re talking one VERY big, very tough, and very motivated critter.
Joke in Fish and Wildlife Service: somebody asks about the best handgun for grizzly, and is told to get a .22 with a short barrel and grind off the front sight. Reason: that way it hurts less when the bear takes it from you and shoves it up your hind end.
One of the few good things the Republicans did while they ran the congress was allowing the silly “assault weapons” ban to expire. If only they’d really had the courage of their rhetoric they would have established a nationwide “must issue” law, but of course they never even tried.
The gun ownership situation here in New York City is only marginally better than that in the UK, and our mayor, Michael Bloomberg, seems like a devoted gun ban fettishist. (Rudy Giuliani before him was also a “guns are evil” type. For the record, both are Republicans. I make no claims the local Democrats are better.)
Perhaps one good thing may come of the newly conservative Supreme Court — perhaps they’ll hear a second amendment challenge some time. I am not holding my breath, though.
Spoons,
I can shoot my 2″ Ruger SP101 just as accurately with .357 as I can with .38 or .38+p. I just can’t do it for more than two cylinders in a row! 🙂
That said, of course I’m not recommending it for an backcountry gun over something with a longer barrel and a little more weight.
Why do they file down the front sights of .44s in bear country? So it doesn’t hurt so much when the grizzly sticks it up your a**. Old joke.
Check out the Ruger GP100 .357. Great gun, and quite a bit less than a new S&W.
Sad to say, but even in the high country, the most common predator that attacks a man is man. Your street carry weapon will be just fine for that, unless you intend to spend much time in heavy brush, timber, or on horseback – most concealable weapons tend to be kind of fragile and unforgiving of pine duff, dirt, sand, etc.
Single-action revolvers are far and away the most reliable under field conditions, but double-action revolvers are pretty good. Most (but not all) autos have trouble with the high dirt/low maintenance common on extended high country roaming.
I’d recommend a .357 for field carry, simply because you can practice for much cheaper and your likely targets (cat, coyote, skunk, scumbag, feral dog) are small & thin-skinned, though .357 is kind of marginal for cat. Ruger GP100, or S&W 686 if you want modern styling: Ruger Redhawk or Vaquero if you want that retro look.
Don’t even think about shooting even a brown bear with a handgun. And, NO, the flash and bang will not scare off a grizzly. Keep your head up & eyes open, and avoid them. If you must go into grizzly country, on foot or horseback, carry a high-powered rifle … and try to avoid them.
Dust and dirt resistance would be an important consideration since my primary interest would be fossil hunting… as a good excuse for getting as far from civilization as possible.
Quick Q: how easy is it for hand guns to jam? I see a lot of this in the papers esp. here in SA where peoples lives have been spared due to a robber’s gun jamming. I realise that this is mostly due to these guns being poorly maintained and old relics from the Mozam. civil war.
However, I have now seen a couple of ‘cop’ clips on youtube where american gun owners and cops guns appear to be jamming. Common??
I have spent an awful lot of time in (northern) Wyoming.
As said, mountain lions are a greater potential threat than bears.
When I go out in the wilds, in addition to the hunting rifle, I carry a S&W model 66 L-frame stainless revolver, with the shortest barrel available (I think it’s about 3″), in 357 Magnum. With the hammer spur mostly-removed. Loaded with Winchester Silvertips.
Not to sound judgemental or anything, but a lot of this comparison talk – like the guitar-comparison-talk – amounts to what a friend of mine calls ‘ballistic m**turbation’. Bigger, better, longer, more power, and so forth. It has very little to do with your actual situation.
In the wilds, a single-action revolver is silly – there’s a reason that they are obsolete. And semi-auto pistols, unless rigourously maintained, are prone to balking when needed the most. Out in the wilds is not the best place to keep a semi-auto pistol in fine working order.
Your most reliable choice, hands-down, is a double-action revolver in a caliber large enough to take down a lion or a bear that really is a threat to you. And no more. Anything more is weight you have to carry and work you have to do, to no benefit.
In the city – inasmuch as Wyoming’s ‘cities’ are like villages elsewhere – what you need is something large enough to give you the protection you need, yet small enough to carry anywhere. Once again, there’s a lot of wishful thinking that goes on on this subject – people dream dreams of epic gunfights with dozens of adversaries, like in Hollywood, where a hand-crafted hand-cannon of vast caliber and limitless capacity is required to keep our hero safe. This is bull-puckey. In the city, a problem that needs a handgun will come in the form of a lout or a loser, most-likely drunk or stoned, and less than 15 feet away.
In street clothes, I usually carry a S&W Centennial-frame (concealed-hammer) J-frame revolver in 38 Special. I just upgraded from a trusty model 442 (aluminum frame) to a 340PD (exotic-metal frame, and nominally 357 Magnum, but I still carry 38 Specials in it). I got the 340 PD because a) it’s lighter and b) I got a good deal on it (used). I also splurged on a set of Crimson Trace laser grips, which will fit either one.
In dress clothes, I carry a Kel-Tec semi-auto pistol in 32 ACP.
In the city, those are all you need. Some 45 ACP ported-and-polished hand-stippled race-gun with 4 extra magazines are too big, too heavy and impossible to carry concealed in any practical way for much of the time. I’d sooner have a 32 in my hand than a 45 at home in the safe.
Get a hat. I suggest you Google ‘Ritch Rand’ and go shopping. For why? Because, in Wyoming, once you get more than a mile out of town, passing drivers will tip their hats to you, and it’s rude not to return the courtesy.
You will love Wyoming, as I do. Even in the depths of winter, the country and the people are as near to heaven as you can get. For heaven’s sake, get out of the People’s Republic of Laramie whenever you can. Get to Kaycee, get to Thermopolis, get to Tensleep, get to Aladdin, get to Sheridan. But stay the hell away from Jackson Hole – go no nearer than Cody, where you can wallow in firearms heaven at the BBHC/CFM.
GLWI, you’re lucky to have work that requires you to live in WY.
llater,
llamas
A question for Dale.
Are you a US citizen, or will you be a permenant resident with a green card.
If the answer to both of those 2 questions is no, then the Feds have rather alot to say about firearms ownership.
If you are coming over on a visa it is very much harder to own a firearm.
Earl.
Swen
“In grizzly country it’s best to wear bear bells”
I’ve got to know! What are they??
Are they like Morris Dancer bells ? Cowbells? What?
Then you go on to say-
Grizzly bear scat looks much the same but is larger, full of little bells, and smells of hot peppers.
You’re having a laugh arn’t you you little tinker!
Would this pile of shit be the remains of the person wearing said bear bells? and the smell of hot peppers the residue of the spicy pot noodle he consumed shortly before his demise?
Cos the whole concept of “Bear bells” sounds like a dinner gong for Grizzlies to me.
Native western Pennsylvania; 17 years residency in Northern Ireland/UK. Useful as I can work anywhere in the US or UK, no questions asked.
Dale –
Maybe Swen can verify for Wyoming, or not, but when I first moved up to Idaho several years ago, I was warned to watch out for moose more so than cougars or bears. Moose are big (very big), dumb and not afraid of much; however, they don’t seem to go out of their way to go after people, but your vehicle will be definitely worse for an encounter.
Also, if you do go up to Worland, go over to Shoshoni and up through Wind River Canyon to Thermopolis and then to Meeteetse and Cody. Meeteetse has a stuffed grizzly in their town museum “Little Wahb” that is pretty spectacular. And if you’re into Western Americana, Meeteetse is near the old Pitchfork Ranch and the foreman was a real good photographer – his photos were the Marlboro Man ads from the 70’s and 80’s and taken on the ranch. Cody has the Buffalo Bill museum as well. The country east of Yellowstone is absolutely gorgeous.
“I appreciate that the tool has a place and a purpose and has reason to be appreciated, but then so does a hammer.”
Picking a good hammer is also kind of a personal choice. Some are happy with the traditional wooden handled ones of course, I prefer the more modern metal handle as they’re less likely to break. Like guns, application is also a large determinate. If you’re just looking for a good all around one a 16oz Estwing suits that function very well. Bit pricey though so if you don’t use it a lot, and don’t mind the chance of a wooden handle breaking, perhaps the 16oz Stanley will do.
“My recommendation for a Wyoming field gun: the Ruger GP-100 .357 revolver with a 6″ barrel.”
Not many are better; a hell of a lot are worse. Forget mountain lions: a .357 mag will take it out cleanly, no problem.
Even a 4″ barrel will suffice, especially if you’re going to carry it a lot.
Leave that plastic crap alone. Get a gun made with wood and steel, just like Samuel Colt and John Moses Browning intended.
Actually, what I’d get in your shoes: for carry, a lightweight S&W 637 Airweight in .38 Spec+P. For out in the bush, the Ruger GP as above, or if you want to do the “cowboy” thing, a Ruger Redhawk or Colt SAA, both in .45 LC, depending on whether you want single- or double-action.
That’s me put in my place then!
Dale, You’ve gotten bushels and pecks of good advice already; one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that if you do acquire two handguns, they should both be of the same action type (single- or double-). I carry either a G36 or a SIG P220 DAK on the streets, and either a Ruger SP101 .357 or a Dan Wesson .44 in the woods (depending on whether the local bears are hibernating or not). Each of the four operates the same way: Obtain the sight picture, apply pressure to the trigger, BANG. No safeties or decockers, they all work the same way. When the defecation impacts the ventilation, you will not have to remember which firearm you just drew and brought to target. As far as CCW license, Florida would be the place to go except that they require proof of training, which it doesn’t sound like you have yet. New Hampshire (my home state) will issue a non-resident license and does not require training. Wyoming will honor a NH license (packing.org) until you can get training. I can recommend SIGArms Academy in NH most highly. sigarmsacademy.com Although NH is admittedly out of your way…
First, I have a membership at a range north of Greeley, CO, and would be pleased if you would be my guest when you get settled. It’s not too far off the path from Laramie to Denver, so might be convenient when you go on a road trip. You’re welcome to try any weapon I have (more long arms than handguns, but there you go).
Second, Denver has gun shows about every month, which can be a decent chance to at least handle a wide variety of weapons, usually a rather wider variety than most gun shops. There’s no requirement to buy at the show, but there’s no substitute for picking the gun up and seeing how it fits your hand. And sometimes you can get pretty good deals. If you give us some warning, we can probably manage a gun bloggers’ meetup at the gun show for the purpose of sharing conflicting opinions.
Third, I used to live in southern Wyoming (Cheyenne and Laramie), and it’s dry enough that there’s not much in the way of big predators. Even a black bear would be quite unusual. There’s the very occasional black bear or mountain lion, but they’re pretty shy of people. Moose are just barely possible. The situation is different up near Yellowstone, where there’s more big wildlife. (Swen wasn’t BSing about grizzly scat and bear bells.)
Fourth, I believe that open carry is legal in Wyoming, though I’d check to make sure about that, but if you carry openly in Laramie, people will look at you funny. I’ll let you determine whether you consider that important.
Finally, on Laramie weather: The coldest I’ve seen it in town was -53F (-47C). It gets crisp some winter nights. But the real problem is the wind. Fortunately, when it gets really cold, it’s usually very calm.
Please let me know if you want to take a trip to the range or when you get down to Denver. The email for this comment is live. (In case you can’t see it, it’s first.last@comcast.net) At the least, I’ll buy you a beer. (Denver, Boulder, and Ft. Collins all have quite good small breweries.)
ps. According to a Wyoming Highway Dept. speaker that spoke to us when I was a member of the Society of Physics Students, snow wears out after it blows 15-20 miles. This is important to know when building snow breaks in Wyoming.
pps. The preferred term is “Wyomingites”.
My advice to you is to respect the weather out there. Don’t go anywhere when they are having “ground blizzards,” and keep your rolling stock in tip-top condition at all times. Keep the gas tank full. The last time I rolled into Laramie I had to go the last 40 miles on a very soft tire, and swore I would never get in such a position again. The best thing out there is the people, who will help you whether you deseerve it or not. The only trouble is they are few and far between. You are about 72 hours from the United States in Wyoming, so take along your Greek grammar and work on those verbs. Or something like that. You cannot survive without something to engage your mind. Of course Laramie is a college town, with beer and girls, but when you are 40 or 140 miles out of town you will encounter problems.
Unless you are hiking in the Rockies in the NW 1/6th corner of the state, you will probably never see a bear. Yellowstone Park is a Federal Zone … mere peasants should make efforts not to get caught carrying firearms there, regardless of state licenses.
Get something you are comfortable with … go to a range that has rentals and try everything once.
As for CCW … either get a WY CCW 6 months and a day after you have “legally” changed residence … of get a Florida CCW now.
Or just open carry … open carry frightens Californian wannabe immigrants … which is a good thing.
“Your most reliable choice, hands-down, is a double-action revolver in a caliber large enough to take down a lion or a bear that really is a threat to you. And no more. Anything more is weight you have to carry and work you have to do, to no benefit.”
Co-worker claims aside, I’m not sure I buy that, and my favored self defense weapon is a double action .357 magnum revolver. Unless the trick I mentioned actually works, I think I’d rather lug an AK all over bear country than even a .50 cal “hand cannon.”
Problem is, bear country is defined by the bears, not the people, and there have been enough bear attacks well outside of “bear country” that I’d like to have some option, if I run across a bear in the middle of my home town and all I have is my dinky little handgun, besides “run and die,” “fight and die,” and “play dead and die.”
Tatterdemalian – well, I don’t know how to say this politely, but I have my doubts about your buddy’s story.
Grizzlies in Colorado, who had developed a taste for human flesh?
Er, no, it’s in great doubt as to whether there actually are any grizzlies in CO at all – the last reliable sighting in the San Juans being, by all accounts, in 1979.
As for the ‘taste for human flesh’ thing, that sounds like hyperbole, given the number of bear attacks on people that end up in actual flesh-chewing injuries.
I was given the bear-country primmer by a WY Game and Fish officer, up around Sundance. He told us that the average distance between bear and person when the person becomes aware of the bear is less than 15 feet. I’m sure that the bear is well-aware long before this. And a bear goes from 0 to 35 miles an hour in nothing flat. As he advised, unless you have a rifle at ready-port, you won’t even have time to get to the trigger, and even if you do, the oncoming bear is going to stuff the stock right between your ribs.
Better, he thought, to have a large-caliber, short-barreled revolver in a chest- or underarm holster, where you still have a chance to get to it in the clinches and put it to use. His advise was ‘stick it in his ear and pull the trigger until he quits’. If all you have is a rifle, and you take the conventional advice to lay face down with arms and head rolled in, there’s no way that you are going to be able to use it.
As to the ‘bear in town’ – well, anything’s possible. But a bear in town is off his own turf and on yours. In town is the one place where you have a much better chance of succeeding with the conventional advice regarding bears – get the h**l away from them.
llater,
llamas
I’m late to the party but what the hell,
report of a bear taken out with .40 S&W here(Link)
A gun I’d think about for outdoors would be the Taurus Tracker 4410(Link)
Chambers either .45LC or 2 1/2 in. .410 shells, load it up with 3 .45LC and a couple of #8 or #9 shot for snakes.
PS,
On the trail, regardless of which handgun you buy, you might want to load it up with Buffalo Bore(Link) ammo, it’s too pricey and maybe too potent for plinking/practice, but if your ass is on the line, you probably won’t notice the recoil.
The funny thing about concealed carry is I can’t imagine a place where you’re less likely to need to carry a concealed weapon than in Wyoming. I lived in Laramie for 5 years and never got around to applying for the permit – it just never occurred to me. When I camped or traveled, I had my S&W M-19 in the car or tent, and otherwise I just didn’t worry about it. Remember that the two biggest cities in Wyoming have just 60,000 people each (Cheyenne and Casper.) It’s not exactly an urban jungle there, and while there are certainly lots of places where an unsuspecting traveler could get his ass kicked in Wyoming, I’m guessing those places are pretty easy to spot (especially since most of them are probably in Rawlins or Rock Springs anyway.)
Assuming you are talking of Grizzley bears, a pistol would likely only piss the bear of. A snub nose would be next to useless unless you were close enough to stick it in the bear’s ear, but by that time she has either crushed your skull with a swipe of her paw, or has your throat clamped in her jaws.
An Alaska guide told my brother on a Salmon fishing trip about his 44 magnum (10″ barrel so I assume he was joking); “If a grizzley attacks, the first bullet goes in my head. Your on your own.”
In the rockies, most attacks by a 4-footed predator are Mountain Lions. They like to attack from behind and go for your neck. Best advice is don’t go anywhere alone, stick togehther and stay out of areas with alot of cover they could ambush you from. If they don’t get ahold of your neck, then you have a small chance with your pistol. But you’d have to get the lion to break contact and not shoot yourself or have the pistol knocked away. Some people have actually whacked them with a stout rod and driven them off. But being ambush predators, they rarely show themselves as in all those old westerns, until it’s to late.
Revolver or semi-auto: your choice.
99.999% of all hostile civilian encounters (scumbags, varmints, animal predators etc) can be satisfactorily handled with either a .45 (LC or ACP) or a .357 Mag bullet.
About 85% can be handled with a .38 Spec+P.
And 99% of all stats are made up on the spot.
;=)
Dale,
I live in Florida, in gator country, and I boat the swamps and marshes of the St Johns River.
I would never go out on the river without
a good handgun (if you have a long gun on you,
you can be considered to be “hunting”
a big no-no in the off season).
I used to carry a S&W 5″ .44 magnum,
but have replaced it with a Ruger Single Six,
(a gift from my better half).
The .22 mag cylinder is always in place,
with one snake load up front,
and the rest 40 g Win hollowpoints.
Why the switch?
It’s lighter, more accurate,
and it’s really all I need;
it can kill the meanest snake (with shot),
and the biggest gator
…provided you shoot it in the head.
Plenty of old swamp rats here
carry the .22 mag as well.
It’s a highly under-rated caliber,
and makes a great outdoorsman’s revolver.
Although, if I was going to be in grizzly country
I’d likely switch back to the .44.
I can’t quite agree with the one who said
a pistol will only tick off a bear.
I’ve killed plenty of wild hogs
(nasty & can mess you up bad if they charge you;
they are also known as “the poor man’s grizzly”)
with both rifle and pistol.
The ones I shot in the head with a pistol,
both .22 and .44,
died much faster than the ones shot through
the chest, whether using .50 cal blackpowder,
.30-30, or .308.
If you are defending yourself from a bear,
(as opposed to hunting one)
then the shot will be close,
and the head is the way to go.
Check out Elmer Keith’s excellent book, “Sixguns”
for good stories of those who killed the mightly griz
with .44s, .45s, and even good ol’ 9mm [ball] ammo.
*shrugs*
Just my 3 cents for fun;
I stumbled across your page by accident
and enjoyed the read.
Take care & God bless. =)
All this talk about what handgun to carry is amusing. Here is the bottom line from a police officer and hunter.
The Glock 17 when loaded with a good +P+ Premium load such as a Cor Bon 124 grain is very effective for self defense against bad people.
If you are in bear country, in particular grizzly bears, hand guns are a last option. Better is a 45/70 Marlin Guide Gun loaded with the Garrett Cartridge Inc.’s 350 grain Hammer-Head. This rifle and cartridge combination make better sense when dealing with an attacking grizzly bear.
If one insists on a handgun, the .44 magnum is the minimum. Once again, stoke it with Garrett ammunition. If the .44 magnum is loaded with the “330-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GC LONG-HAMMERHEAD AT 1400-FPS” it is an attention getter. These loads should only be used in a Ruger Redhawk or Super Redhawk revolver. I recommend the stainless steel version with a 5.5″ barrel.
Better yet is a Ruger Super redhawk in a 454 Casull caliber. This revolver will allow you to shoot the .45 Long Colt loading for recreation. Just be sure to leave the .45 Long Colt loads at home when you head to bear country.
Remember that these animals are extremely powerful and fast and can soak up a tremendous amount of bullet energy. It is your life that you are betting on so be careful not to be under gunned.
You can read about Garrett Cartridge’s at their web-site @ http://www.garrettcartridges.com
As a near-virgin in guns(I once examined a Beretta 9mm and have fired a Browning over-and-under 12-bore at Clays)I have often wondered what a Navy Colt would be like to use.
Pretty much likely to scare the target to death even if you miss?
As for Northern Ireland, I visited the Falls Road last year and it is still a pretty scary place, even if people can now get life cover as a cab driver.;)
Some good points and some really bad advice has been submitted here.
I you are in bear country, then carry a .44 magnum, such as a Ruger Redhawk or Tuarus Raging Bull double action revolver. Load it with Garret Ammunition Company’s 320-Grain Hammerhead ammo. This should be the minumum when walking in bear country if you are serious about stopping an attack. A .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, .460 or .500 S&W are even better.
A .357 magnum, 10mm, .357 Sig, or a .40 S&W are very effective on people and mountain lions, but they will only enrage a grizzley. People who live in large bear country such as Alaska, will tell you a rifle is the best assurance and a revolver is a last ditch effort to save your life.
Your best bet for bear protection would be a Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 or 450 Marlin. I much prefer a Marlin Guide Gun stoked with GARRETT’S 45-70 +P HAMMERHEAD AMMO in a 540-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GAS-CHECKED HAMMERHEAD AT 1550-FPS.
This gets the job done without question.
Remember it is your life. A little extra weight is a small price to pay when it comes to your safety.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/default.asp