We are developing the social individualist meta-context for the future. From the very serious to the extremely frivolous... lets see what is on the mind of the Samizdata people.

Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]

Paying Danegeld, Tory style

A figure from the youth wing of the Tory Party, no less, claims that the powers that be need to talk to Muslim extremists in order to bring them into the mainstream political process, otherwise the poor diddums, obviously so sensitive about their plight, might go beserk again and start interrupting our peaceful existence as happened on July 7.

You have got to hand it to the Conservatives. We tend to think of the party as being the party of Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and Robert Peel. It is also, as this moron demonstrates, the party of Neville Chamberlain.

As I said in a rather angry comment the other day: Britain is a country, not a hotel.

37 comments to Paying Danegeld, Tory style

  • Rob

    Britain is a house party that’s got 570,000 gate-crashers shooting-up in the toilets!

    There’s going to be a HUGE cleaning bill, after the hangover.

  • It’s people like Sayeeda Warsi, Neville Chamberlain & Ted Heath, that give my party such a bad name.

  • Julian Taylor

    Well, no longer Ted Heath anyway …

  • Ah Yes! Dear Old Ted,the Father of the British Fishing Industry.

  • Verity

    Dear old dead Ted. I guess he’s left for that great “pooled sovereignty” in the sky.

  • GCooper

    Verity writes:

    “Dear old dead Ted. I guess he’s left for that great “pooled sovereignty” in the sky.”

    Oh, I do hope the Sussex bonfire society that burns him in effigy every year doesn’t stop.

    His name will live in infamy.

  • Verity

    G Cooper – Agreed.

  • Antonius

    We do indeed need to talk to the extremists… something along the lines of “Freeze! Up against the wall, motherfucker” would be my prefered opening line.

  • GCooper

    Antonius writes:

    “…something along the lines of “Freeze! Up against the wall, motherfucker” would be my prefered opening line.’

    Damned liberals.

  • Verity

    G Cooper – Ha ha ha ha ha! V good!!!

    As Mr Burns would say, “Ex-cellent!”

  • Chris Harper

    Bad news, in the last couple of days the Australian Government has started to talk ID cards as well. Another chink in the Anglosphere.

  • Verity

    Chris Harper – wrong thread. Go see the people upstairs.

  • Verity

    I was surprised that Jonathan’s comment the other day didn’t get more support, because it brilliantly encapsulated the problem of this unassimilated, bossy lump taking up space in our country. They’re not our guests, because we never invited them, and they have failed to pay for their room, board, education, health care, civil society, public safety, roads – and, like Eric Clapton and Pete Townsend in their younger days, have done damage to the structure of our establishment, which is a nation, not a hotel.

  • espite fierce opposition, the myopic British government under Tony Bliar is currently trying to push through religious hate laws….


  • Julian Taylor

    … complete cooperation and support from the Muslim community

    The fact that she said that proves she is living in some weird fantasy land – most probably the same one that Michael Howard is living in. If her claims of knowing the family of one of the terrorists are true then how does she deal with the notion that part of these animals’ rationale for their action was based upon Britain’s involvement in Iraq and that their families are now quoted in the press as supporting that view?

    Ms Warsi (there surely can not be a title so guaranteed to infuriate a misogynistic religion like Islam as “Ms”) then continues to dig herself into a deeper alienation hole by stating,

    … she hopes the government will engage with Muslims from all ethnic groups and sects, and encourage a basic level of training for Imams in mosques.

    Imagine that, a UK government standard for educating Imams and Mullahs. Rule 1: Don’t encourage anyone to blow themself up, Rule 2: Tony Blair = Allah, Rule 3: Err, that’s it.

  • ….Imagine that, a UK government standard for educating Imams and Mullahs…..

    Actually based on the Government’s track record on education, I think this is a great idea.

    We could set up OfMosque, a quango to check up on the health and safety of mosques and their inclusiveness policies. They could check to make sure that sermons included references to multiculturalism, womens rights and other “progressive” ideas.

    If that didn’t put young people off religion nothing would.

  • Johnathan

    Verity, I am thinking of getting a patent on my phrase! I rather like it as a sort of patriotic meme.

    The more I read the original BBC story, the worse it is. The shame of it is that young Tories should be focussing on embracing moderate, westernised muslims and encouraging women to raise their status, promoting the values of tolerance, patriotism and the like. The Tories could actually play a smart hand here, if they are wise.

    Just imagine if this dolt had urged people to “reach out” (not my favourite expression) to animal rights nuts.

  • Euan Gray

    Imagine that, a UK government standard for educating Imams and Mullahs

    It is often found that one of the best ways of neutralising threats like this is to nationalise them, not to oppose them.

    Witness the successful subordination of the English church to the state started by Henry VIII, to the extent that church membership became soon enough nothing more than a badge of social respectability. Contrast this with the Polish government’s attempted suppression of the Catholic church in the 1970s and 80s, which simply encouraged them.


  • Julian Taylor

    Please don’t say things like that Mr Gray, Steven Byers might be reading this blog and we must be careful not to encourage criminals like him that nationalisation or re-nationalisation is a good thing in any sense of the word at all …

  • Verity

    Tony Blair and all the rest of them in the viper’s nest of the British government are evading what is staring them in the face. Islam is about conquest. That is it. End of story. “Having talks” is not what Islam is about. It is about conquering the world for allah and making it into dar-es-salaam. Blair will have his dhimmi dimwit meetings and they will patronise him (not hard – just flatter him) and practice taqqiya and kitman on him and he will think, as he is supposed to think, that he has made progress.

    On the other hand, I think he is dimly aware that Islam is not negotiable. Being a totalitarian himself, he can see the value in an alliance. The left doesn’t have Naziism or Communism to cleave to any more and Islamofascism fills the empty space left by those two beloved (dead) ideologies. The problem for them is, Islam doesn’t share power. Dhimmi Dimwit will think he is making progress – this is part of taqqiya and kitman – but power will be draining away from him and he will wake up one day and be taking orders.

    The French are doing a far better job at resisting.

  • Verity

    Stephen Pollard posits the theory on his blog today that if this religious hatred bill goes through, the Koran would have to be banned.

    Sounds like a plan.

  • Otis

    Hopefully not too off-topic…

    Have just heard the govt wants to establish a database of extremists to be vetted before entering the country.

    Anyone care to open a book on how long before “extremist” includes those “posing a threat to ‘social justice'” or similar?

    Anyway – why a database (costing millions in consultants, offices, support staff, etc)? Haven’t they heard of Google?

  • pommygranate

    Tony Blair is actually one of the few politicians (from all parties) to have spoken about the real issues since the bombings. (link).
    The hope is that this will lead to action.

  • snide

    It is often found that one of the best ways of neutralising threats like this is to nationalise them, not to oppose them.

    Ah yes, in other words, adopt the French approach to problems: surrender to them. Nationalising them means adopting Sharia to replace the Church of England, you twerp.

  • Verity

    Pommygranate – read his words. He doesn’t understand the issues at all.

    There is no halfway with Islam. Their god has told them to make the entire world submit to islam and every true believer is brainwashed from childhood into thinking they have to do their bit for allah. Tony Blair is being used, but he is too arrogant to understand that.

    He thinks he has the confidence of the Islamic “leaders” – and he does! They know he will deliver more and more to them on a plate as they demand ever greater appeasement.

    Next stop, shariah law “but only in civil cases; definitely not to conflict with British criminal law. And only for Muslims.” Watch and learn.

    Believe me, Blair will never draw a line in the sand.

  • Rob

    I wonder how long it will be before a woman gets an ASBO for not wearing a veil?

  • Matt O'Halloran

    I wonder how long it will be before Verity, the bedbound burbler, unites her twin 24/7 manias into an irrefutable proof that Cherie Blair is a Muslim.

  • Euan Gray

    Ah yes, in other words, adopt the French approach to problems: surrender to them.

    It’s actually a quintessentially English solution – if you want something neutered, make it officially sanctioned. Read some history about the church and verily it will become clear.

    Nationalising them means adopting Sharia to replace the Church of England, you twerp.

    No, it doesn’t.

    However, resorting to insult does generally mean one either doesn’t know what one is talking about or can’t offer a rational response. Possibly both.

    Of course, it’s so easy to throw insults in lieu of reason, especially from behind a fake email address, isn’t it? It would be nice if you could be constructive, or failing that at least polite. Or if you must be rude, try do it in style, for it is hard to be long offended by witty insult.

    Then again, I’m not long offended by insult of any kind and it doesn’t make me respond in kind.


  • Next stop, shariah law “but only in civil cases; definitely not to conflict with British criminal law. And only for Muslims.” Watch and learn.

    Excellent. I quite like the idea of polycentric law… if the Muslims can have their own law, then so can folks who see things my way 🙂

  • EU-Serf….great idea after all the CoE have managed to drive the youth of Britain away from Christianity. Norway’s state church have done something similar.

  • pommygranate

    This just isn’t the case.
    There is a fanatical section of Islam that has been left alone by European authorities and nurtured by Iraq.
    The fanatics do not reflect the mainstream Islamic view. Only a conspiracy theorist would believe this.

    The challenge is how to marginalise the nutters and prevent any more angry young Muslim men from being brainwashed.

  • GCooper

    pommygranate writes:

    “The fanatics do not reflect the mainstream Islamic view.”

    Other than that you have been told this by the liberal media and idiots like the PC PC, what reasons have you to believe this statement?

    After all, 13 % of British Moslems asked by ICM for the Gruaniad edmitted they thought further attacks after 9/11 were “justified”. How many more thought the same but were too smart to admit it?

    And what would the percentage have been had the poll been taken in, say, Iran, Morocco, Pakistan or Indonesia?

    I’ll bet you pounds to peanuts that you’d have been lucky if 13% had said they were opposed to further strikes.

    Many of the statements made by ‘mainstream’ Moslems in the past fortnight have been quite equivocal, hedged around with ‘buts’ and ‘reasons’ and ‘root causes’.

    When all the evidence suggests that conquest and the forcible submission of non-believers is at the very core of Islam, right now what we need is evidence of good faith. Not anodyne platitudes.

  • Verity

    Pommygranate – Yes, the fanatical sector of Islam – and in Islam, given that it is a violently radical religion, the fanatical sector is really quite something – has been left alone by European leaders. Ask yourself why.

    The Muslims in Britain – and Europe – have been fired up by Iraq. Why TF? They’re not Iraqi and never were. They’re British, French, Dutch. Their antecedents are Pakistani and N African. Yet they have more “loyalty” to their brothers and sisters in Islam in Iraq than they do to their own country? And we’re supposed to give a flying rat’s arse?

    And if it’s not Iraq they’re whining and demonstrating about, it’s effing Palestine and Israel.

    They either have to settle down and adopt the culture of the lands in which they were born, or head on back to exciting centres of Islam like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

    I don’t want to be unjust, and the above is written with the caveat that there are some bright, articulate, achieving Muslims with an open sense of humour who are well-adjusted in the West. But, given the whining and hectoring about “root causes” (the root cause is Islam) and Iraq and Palestine and Israel, I think they should pack up en masse and move closer to the action.

    Now, did you answer the question I posed at the top of this post? Why have the socialist governments regimes encouraged mass immigration from primitive societies and tolerated their barbaric behaviour? Because Islam is a totalitarian, controlling belief system. The left were apologists for Naziism and apologists for communism – alas both sadly departed. But hey ho! – any old port in a storm, and now it’s cleaving to Islam. By any measure of common sense, these millions of malcontents and misfits would have been forced to integrate and fit in generations ago, or would have been shipped out. Even a six-year old knows that if you don’t behave yourself, you get punished. But these people have been allowed to run wild. Why?

  • Verity

    Well, more explosions on the Underground and the windows of a bus blown out. This has nothing to do with Iraq and everything to do with Tony Traitor allowing frothing-at-the-mouth imans and mad mullahs to spew out hatred of anyone who doesn’t cleave to their diety. Ah, yes, Tone. How frightfully transi of you. Any sane person would have deported them and branded Undesirable on their foreheads. But not Mahatama Tone. “We know who they are and we’re keeping an eye on them.” Oh, goody!

  • pommygranate

    Yes – i have just been evacuated from Holborn tube station. Watching the news reports, it would appear that the madness of these people is matched only by their sheer incompetence. It looks like the only people in hospital are the suspects!

    GCooper – how much do you or i or anyone who reads Samizdata actually know about what young Muslim men think?

    Verity – i really think you have the wrong target in Tony Blair. The words of people in really responsible positions such as London MPs (Galloway), the Mayor, London media (the BBC) and London policemen (Blair and Paddick) have been almost chilling in their failure to condemn extremists.

  • Verity

    Sorry, Pommy, but the buck stops with Tony and he has created a situation in which violence is possible, and even publically excused (as in the word BUT) in many quarters by Islamic lunatics. They should be shot on sight. The problem begins in the mosques, all of which should be closed down for a month long moratorium.

  • GCooper

    pommygranate writes:

    “… how much do you or i or anyone who reads Samizdata actually know about what young Muslim men think?”

    So I can only ask again, why did you write: “The fanatics do not reflect the mainstream Islamic view”?

    Clearly, as you say, no one really knows. But the evidence, I would suggest, is against your claim.