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It is sometimes said Americans do not ‘get’ irony J.D. Vance, who is the Vice President of the USA, goes to Hungary, an EU member state, and delivers a campaign speech for Victor Orban, the president of Hungary, in which Vance accuses the EU of… interference in Hungary’s elections.
Am I the only one who finds that absolutely hilarious?
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I understand irony, but maybe just don’t know the facts.
Doesn’t Orban hate the EU? Doesn’t the EU hate Orban? Hasn’t the EU withheld billions in funding from Hungary because it views it as corrupt, and especially wishes to see Orban lose?
Bobby… indeed, all that you write is true. But what exactly was J.D. Vance doing when he urged Hungarians to vote for Victor Orban rather than Peter Magyar?
It is not Vice President Vance who is engaged in financial blackmail to get Hungary to accept Third World migrants – it is the European Union. Nothing to do with corruption bobby b – everything to do with not obeying the de facto Open Borders policy, in order to bring the blessings of Death (sorry I mean “Diversity and Inclusion – Enrichment”) to the people of Hungary.
The European Union could not care less about corruption – as long as you OBEY. It is the refusal to OBEY that matters to them and their European “court”.
Nor would Vice President Vance have “intervened” had not the “International Community” (the international Corporate State) “intervened” first – and over YEARS of vicious propaganda, as well as financial blackmail.
By the logic of the post the United States should never have “intervened” in Europe in two World Wars and the Cold War – ignoring the fact that Germany and the Soviet Union intervened first.
It is not “irony” to respond to the intervention of enemies – such as the European Union and the general “International Community” (the international establishment).
What the post really cares about is not “irony”, and it is not Hungary – it is UKRAINE, the belief behind the post is that a new government in Hungary will be more supportive of Ukraine in the present war with Russia.
And what the post, perhaps, fails to see is that the European Union, and the “International Community” (the international Corporate State- the establishment) is not really pro Ukraine – on the contrary the plans are to bring the “blessings” of Third World migration to Ukraine. These plans are not even hidden – they are openly discussed, the “need” for Third World migration into Ukraine AFTER the war (although the International Community was already encouraging this BEFORE 2022 – as could be seen by SOME of the “Ukrainian refugees” who turned up in the Republic of Ireland and other lands, they did indeed “come from Ukraine”, but they were obviously NOT Ukrainians, some of them were even from Africa).
Ironically (now here is some “Irony”) – Mr Putin’s plans are the same as those of the European Union and the general International Community – he also wants to bring the “blessings” of Third World migration to Ukraine, as he has already done to Russia – as the late Mr Navalny pointed out (before Mr Putin had him arrested and sent to a camp – where he died), Mr Putin (who, ironically, made his name having Muslims killed in Chechnya) is increasingly dependent on Islamic forces – who he has encouraged in Russia.
The normal process of immigration (from the Central Asian Republics) and natural increase – births.
That is what Mr Putin would also do to Ukraine if he ruled it.
So for Ukraine the coin toss is as follows – “heads means death – and tails also means death”, if Mr Putin wins the war he will being them the “blessing of cultural enrichment” via mass migration and the natural increase (births) of hostile populations, and if the International Community win the war – they will do the same thing.
Neither side wants the Ukrainian people to be independent – neither side wants the Ukrainian people to survive. Neither side will reverse the social and cultural changes that have led to a demographic collapse in Ukraine (and Germany and Britain and so on – including Russia) – both sides will, instead, push the migration (and natural increase – births) of hostile populations – in order to replace the Ukrainians and other historic Western peoples.
The International Community (of which the European Union is but a part) do not want the British people to survive, or the Czech people to survive – or the Ukrainian people to survive.
All the historic Western peoples, the international establishment believe, must be destroyed.
And those who think Mr Putin is some sort of saviour, some sort of alternative, are kidding themselves – as he do the same thing, he is already doing the same thing, and has done for many years now.
Think, for example, of the vast numbers of young men, Ukrainian and Russian, that have been killed in his war – young men who should have been husbands and fathers.
Mr Putin does NOT care – as he believes in replacing them with new populations (see above). No irony – just TREASON for which Mr Putin should be executed.
Every word you wrote was irrelevant to this post, Paul.
Moreover, Peter Magyar is as keen to keep third world immigrants out of Hungary as Victor Orban is, which is why Peter Magyar will probably win.
“what is J.D. Vance doing when he…..”
J.D. Vance (and President Trump because he also spoke at the event – via telephone) is countering the intervention of the European Union and the general International Community.
Countering the intervention of hostile forces is not “irony” – unless one believes that the United States countering previous interventions is “ironic”.
And neither Vice President Vance or President Trump mentioned “Peter Magyer” – there is no reason to do so, he is not independent person, it does not matter who the “leader” of the servants of the International Community is in Hungary – what matters is that they will open the borders, and follow the other policies of the International Community.
It is like speculating who will replace Prime Minister Starmer in the United Kingdom after the local elections in May (if he is forced out after Labour does very badly in these elections) – it does-not-matter who replaces Sir Keir Starmer, as whoever is Prime Minister will follow the policies of the international establishment.
And whoever wins the local elections here will follow the same policies, on Council Tax increases and so on – because these policies are not made by elected politicians, the system is now designed in such as way as to empty democracy of all real content.
It will be the same in Hungary – after the International Community take over.
Perry – what you write is false. Apart from “…. will probably win” – which is likely TRUE (although it will not be “Peter Magyar” himself who will win – he will just be the person who happens to be called Prime Minister, just as Sir Keir Starmer happens to be the person who is called Prime Minister in Britain – neither has any real power).
Every word I wrote was relevant – not irrelevant.
And your statement that “Peter Magyar will keep out Third World migrants” is a false statement.
Even “Wikipedia” (hardly a right wing source) states that the opposition will go along with the rulings of the European Court in order to get the money.
The rulings of the European Court are about letting in the migrants. And other things that “conservative Peter Magyar” will say he opposes – till he agrees to them.
Have a nice day.
The post is nothing to do with “irony” – it is really about Ukraine.
And whoever wins the war – the Ukrainian people lose, just as the Russian and British peoples (and so on) are losing.
Isn’t there a difference between influence on an election–by, for example, suggesting who your preferred candidate is, and why people should vote for them–and interference in an election by methods such as financial pressures, attempting to shut down media outlets, criminalising discussion of topics at issue, jailing candidates you disapprove of, running fraudulent smear campaigns, banning certain candidates from standing based on trumped up accusations, or outright voiding election results you didn’t like? All of the latter appear to have been EU-backed tactics we’ve seen in the past in national elections.
anon
President Trump and Vice President Vance are indeed trying to counter the intervention (financial blackmail and so on) of the European Union and the general International Community – including (“ironically”) the intervention of the American Deep State over many years, which has been trying to undermine Hungary (largely because they do not want an example to be set – they do not want other Western nations to resist being wiped out).
Perry claims that this is not about letting in migrants (and other International Community policies), and that claim is false.
Where I agree with Perry is on his claim that the forces of the International Community will probably win the election – they most likely will win.
The future is death, death for the Hungarian people, and death for all other Western peoples – that is the policy of the International Community.
And that most certainly includes the death of the American people.
You think Fidesz not doing this? 😀 I vote Tisza this time.
The reality of Peter Magyar is quite unlike what Paul seems to think.
Teasütemény:
I have not been following the Hungarian situation closely (too many other crises to track at this point), so I have no knowledge one way or the other–they might well be for all I know. But that wasn’t really the point. For it to be ironic that Vance complains about interference from the EU, Vance would himself have to be engaged in interference. Whatever dirty tricks Fidesz may be engaged in, Vance speaking on the subject of the elections doesn’t constitute, I would say, interference, whomever he endorses.
A relevant question is does it help or hinder?
These kind of high profile interventions have a habit of often backfiring. Obama expressing a preference for Remain in the UK 2016 referendum did more harm than good for Remain. Zelensky going to the US during the 2024 election and appearing alongside Democrats backfired. Even some Labour Party activists going to the US campaign for Democrats caused a big enough fuss by itself, gave the democrats no advantage and did Starmer no good.
I have seen polling that suggests the Trump admin is less unpopular (although not exactly popular) in Hungary than most other European states, however, that was from before the Greenland sabre rattling earlier in the year and the current Iran war. Does Vance going to Hungary energise Fidesz voters to turn out more than it motivates the opposition to vote against him?
It would be nice if politicians did not lend their support to the parties in other countries as a consistent measure. I can recall how the Labour Party stuck its nose in the US elections, and the Tories probably did.
At least when the late, great Sir Roger Scruton smuggled in literature to Eastern Europe during the Cold War, he was interfering in the internal affairs of a totalitarian regime in order to undermine it. He took serious risks going there. Most of those who shove themselves into democratic politics today from overseas are doing nothing of the kind.
Vance and Trump seem to be oblivious, or don’t care, about what a piece of work Orban is. This CATO Institute essay unpacks the damage he’s done to Hungary. He’s not the kind of conservative I can support and I worry that Vance sees him as any kind of role model.
On initial reading, I agreed entirely with Perry’s point, but later commenters have made a nice (in the old sense) distinction between interference and influence.
Having said which, anything which stymies the Eurocrats is fine by me.
I was rather hoping that the “Tisza Party” might have something to do with this guy. But no.
Orban has been prime minister from 1998 to 2002, and then since 2010 to now. That is enough. Without knowing anything about the virtues of his opponent, it’s time for Orban to retire.
I’m a great fan of term limits.
As to Vance — his trip to Hungary was unnecessary, and doesn’t show good judgement on his part.
Actually, we do understand Irony.
We also understand logical fallacies such as the false equivalence you’re engaging in.
Someone giving a speech recommending a course of action has no equivalence whatsoever with a governing body engaging in outright extortion to force that course of action on others.
Patrick always finds the best stuff 🙂
Americans do not get irony- they give it!!!
Fucking hell, I always been pro-US & until recent pro-Trump, but he & VP seem to have gone oxygen-starved crazy with many of their supporters. Vice-POTUS gave party-political speech, which is mad as it means probable (also conservative) winner of Hungary election (Mr. Magyar) will deem USA opposed to him & act accordingly. It’s TERRIBLE idea to get party political with supposed ally.
Also, Vance apparently ok with Orban’s laughable tale of Zelenskyy planning to send troops into Hungary (a NATO nation), which puts both Vance & Orban in “Tucker Carlson Crazy” category of mad. US government trying to add believable to a preposterous political tale is clearly “interference”, information warfare really. Also, no mention of the cringeworthy phone call with Putin, so can only conclude USA siding with Russia, with all that imply.
I initially considered that you were calling out Vance’s open public speech listing his/our preference as “interference”, but quickly discarded that idea, and figured there was substance that I simply didn’t know, being a parochial US’er.
We have different levels of acceptability of “interference”, I guess. 😉
Hmm… I agree that expressing support for Orban is a much milder form of interference than what the EU does.
At the same time, I suspect that this is another unforced error by the Trump admin.
Although perhaps not as bad as those related to Ukraine, Alaska, and Canada. Not least, because Trump himself has some plausible deniability: it’s Vance who compromised himself, as he did by his association with Tucker and his enthusiasm for Mencius Moldbug.
NB: All the same, i consider Trump as humankind’s (almost) last, best hope; and i have not lost hope for Vance.
@Snorri Godhi
NB: All the same, i consider Trump as humankind’s (almost) last, best hope; and i have not lost hope for Vance.
Trump showed so much promise, but he has completely lost the plot. When doge failed it began to go bad, and round about the time of Kirk’s assassination it was really going off the rails because of the US/Israel thing. He was elected as a “domestic agenda” president and somehow has become completely a foreign policy agenda. As I have said here many times, Americans do not care about foreign policy. They care about the economy and crime, and smaller groups care about more niche issues. That is what Trump should be focused on, and he is not at all. This tweet from him just annoyed me so much. I think Carlson has definitely gone down a crazy religion rabbit hole, but these comments are, well to call them sophomoric would be an insult to sophomores.
If Trump can get back to the agenda he was elected in, I’ll quickly jump back on board. But I cannot stand behind all this foreign interference thing and his complete neglect of the economy at all.
But Trump is not the last best hope for humanity. The AI and robot revolution is either going to destroy us or completely save us from our folly, in America anyway. The deflationary pressures it will cause and the massive value and revenue i will generate will allow the wiping out of the massive federal debt and the creation of a lot of money to send to people who are displaced by the transformation. Something not talked about often is the massive impact it will have on healthcare, allow us (or at least Americans) to live longer healthier lives, even if we spend most of them in the floaty chairs.
FWIW, I have spent most of today baby sitting an AI generating new software. It is breathtaking in its capabilities.
That, or AI and robotics will destroy us all. But the road we are going down is guaranteed to destroy us all anyway.
I hope and pray that Trump gets back on the program he was elected on, though I think a bloodbath is coming in November. But a Vance Presidency, if he can make it, will surely be much better. He might be going along with all this nonsense, but it isn’t where his true loyalties lie. As I have said before, at the end of this Iran war the IAEA inspectors had better be wheeling out half a dozen half completed nuclear weapons or we should all admit that we have been duped again by exactly the same lie.
And when you stopped beating your wife, it began to go good 🙂
@Snorri Godhi
And when you stopped beating your wife, it began to go good
I literally have no idea what you mean. Must be all the seed oil I’ve been eating.
Both the Germans and the allies interfered with the smooth running of France during the war, but that doesn’t mean there’s some kind of equivalence between them.
I was having much the same thought as Roué. Governments try to influence and/or interfere with other countries and their elections all the time. What is relevant is the details.
So the question is – what sort of interference / influence is kosher ? In war – pretty much anything. In peacetime – pretty much anything if the other country is beastly. Mr Trump is currently interfering quite a lot with Iran’s government. Is this wise ? Who can say – I’m waiting for the movie to come out. Is it kosher – obviously.
But between democratically elected governments ? I can’t see anything unkosher about saying who you would like to win. It might be unwise, but there’s nothing shady about it. But actually interfering by – say – withholding funds that every other EU country gets is going way beyond merely stating a preference.
Further, interference by the EU itself is akin to the civil service interfering with the elected government and its election, and definitely not kosher. EU governments are welcome to say that Mr Magyar is good and Mr Orban is not. But the apparat is supposed to be the servant of the member governments, and has no proper role in selecting them.
@Lee Moore
I can’t see anything unkosher about saying who you would like to win.
Unkosher? It is a basic, fundamental right of any person or organization to be able to say what they want. Free speech is the bedrock of western democracy and modern civilization. Of course JD Vance can express a preference, though for sure Vice President Vance is obliged to express a preference approved of by the United States government (an entity that also has a fundamental right to free speech.)
When I say I don’t follow Hungarian politics closely I mean I don’t follow it at all. So when Perry introduces us to Peter Magyar my first reaction is, ‘Magyar? Seriously? Like the tribes who followed Attila the Hun into the Carpathian basin in search of the white deer?’ Talk about nominative determinism.
But then Wikipedia tells me that ‘Magyar’ is ‘a common Hungarian-language ethnonymic surname meaning “Hungarian” in Hungarian.’
So there’s that.
Yeah, a Hungarian called Magyar is as crazy as a Scotsman called Scott.
Just call me bobby american.
Your last sentence, Fraser, is the point. There are circumstances when saying whatever you feel like is constrained by duties or loyalties you have voluntarily assumed.
The question is – does one democratically elected government have a duty to avoid criticising another democratically elected government. And it seems to me that the answer is no, notwithstanding the long queue of Beeb/Graun types lining up to say “But the norms !”
Not least because the norm, such as it exists, does not apply to bad, ie rightish, governments. These may be criticised at will. And invariably are.
I see the words intervene and interfere used quite a lot above. For there to be irony though, it seems people need to pretend that there is no difference between interference, intervention and influence.
What’s ironic about Vance making a speech condemning interference? Is every expression of opinion now “interference”?
Pretty sure the US govt waving promises of money at Hungarians if they vote for Russian’s preferred candidate rather than Peter Magyar is more than just an “expression of opinion”.
But, Perry, let’s be fair: this is not what we have been discussing. What we have been discussing is the support that Vance gave to Orban, as in the original post.
Contrary to what Perry claims – it is the European Union (not the United States) that is engaged in financial blackmail, so that Hungary will go along with the European Court.
“if they vote for Russia’s preferred candidate….” – I thought the post was supposed to be about “irony” not Russia and Ukraine.
Stand by for obeying the European Court (and the international community generally) not just in migrants – but also on “Net Zero” and everything else (after token resistance – the Peter Magyar hologram will say he-has-no-choice – and, in a sense, that is true).
The International Community will win (Vice President Vance and President Trump are trying to hold back the tide of decay – it is not possible to do that, death, in the end, wins) – Facebook and the other vast international Corporations, and European Union (and international financial system – remember how Pope Benedict was forced out) financial blackmail will make sure the International Community wins.
Migrants will come, so will Net Zero and all the rest of it – Hungary will die as most Western nations are dying.
No irony – just tragedy.
The nation that gave the world Lenny Bruce, Dorothy Parker, Ambrose Bierce and Woody Allen is no stranger to irony.
I have not wasted another minute of my precious time on the US VP since he made such a sycophantic ass of himself during that Oval Office meeting with the Ukrainian president in February 2025.
You do not have to be a fan of the EU to recognize that the current Hungarian PM is no good.
Depends, on what you call interference.
He is the VICE president. Sycophancy is literally his job.
I see Hilary Clinton and Alex Soros, among others, tweeting happy congratulations for the victory of Magyar over Orban.
PdH, I hope there’s some reasoning behind your feelings here.
bobby b – yes and Donald Tusk former European Union Commissioner (now Prime Minister of Poland). Donald Tusk telephoned the hologram in Hungary to congratulate him on the election victory – they are clearly very much on the same page, serving the same international agenda.
Donald Tusk, Alex Soros, and the others, understand what has happened. The international agenda will now move forward – without Hungary as an irritating (irritating to them) counter example that a nation might choose not to follow the international agenda of total-control – the Corporate State of the World Economic Forum and United Nations Agenda 2030 (Net Zero, mass migration) and so on.
All is as predicted – as the late John Enoch Powell said “all political careers end in failure” – something that Viktor Orban now knows to be true.
In-the-end decay and death always win.
In-the-end there is no hope in this world – we only have to look at what happens to our own bodies (the ageing process) to know that.
It is formalized in physics as the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
Still, as the Welsh poet said, “Do not go gentle into that good night, rage-rage against the dying of the light”.
Meanwhile in the United Kingdom the government is government is formalizing the process by which British law will “align” (i.e. OBEY) European Union law, and International Community policy generally – without Parliament having to vote on such matters (not that Parliament would vote no anyway – but allowing them to vote is considered an insult to the European Union and the International Community in general).
It is not just in Hungary that the International Agenda proceeds – it is in Britain to.
President Trump still stands against it – on Net Zero, or Mass Migration, and on many other things, but he will not last long – the November elections will hand the House and Senate to the Democrats (faithful servants of the International Community – not that the Republicans are much different).
President Trump is rather like the Emperor Majorian – the last great Emperor of the West. Great personal courage, great tactical victories – but ending in total failure.
Still – fight-fight-fight, fight till you can not fight any more – because you are dead.
Do not just lay down and die easy.
The Wikipedia article on the winning party in the Hungarian election is highly informative – not on its false claims that the party is “conservative”, but on the policies it represents.
All the policies one would expect are there – for example getting 20 Billion Euros from the European Union (by submitting to the E.U. “court” on migrants – and other matters), this money to be spent on the Welfare State. The acceptance of the Euro as the currency and the E.U. (and international) banking system – i.e. the end to what is left of national independence.
More government (but not private) health care, and education – and pensioners getting more money, but the pensioners not getting the money as cash – but rather as a special electronic card that could only be spent on what the government approves of (very World Economic Forum). And on and on.
No one can, honestly, say they did not know what they were voting for – they have voted to submit to the agenda of the International Community.
They have voted for their own destruction as a people – for their own death.
I don’t follow Polish politics, but my understanding is that Tusk’s election did not have much of an impact on it, at least when it comes to immigration & integration. Am i wrong?
Good point Snorri – indeed in-spite of an intense propaganda campaign (calling him a Pimp and so on) the conservative candidate for President of Poland won – in-spite of Prime Minister Donald Tusk.
In Hungary the President had been told to resign, told to resign by the new Prime Minister – who has threatened to change the Constitution to force out the President of Hungary if he does not resign. The persecution of political opponents will start soon – most likely on fake fraud charges (either by new Hungarian leftist activist judges – or by direct European Union prosecutions).
The Prime Minister of Hungary is also shutting state television stations – NOT because he does not believe in state owned broadcasters, but because he wants to reorganize state television to make it “independent” like the BBC – i.e. back the European Union and the “International Community” generally – like the BBC.
Various other dreadful things are being done (even though the Gentleman has only been in office a few days) – the new Prime Minister is hard at work undermining Hungary. But this is what the Hungarian people voted for – they were offered 35 Billion Euros from the European Union if they sold out their country – and that is what they decided to do. Soon officials and “independent experts” will control the courts in Hungary, and the schools, and everything else – most likely including policy towards “refugees”.
The Hungarian voters have made their bed – now they will die in it.
It is unfortunate.