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You say that like it’s a bad thing, Mr Soros

The EU could collapse in the same way the Soviet Union did, George Soros warns

Back in 1991/92, when the Soviet Union had just collapsed and the UKIP party had just formed to fight the “ever-closer-union” Maastricht Treaty, one of their posters was two pictures of the map of Europe, one captioned ‘Before’ and the other ‘After’. ‘Before’ showed Western Europe divided into many separate countries while the east was the single monolith of communism. ‘After’ showed Eastern Europe divided into many separate countries while the west was the single monolith of the EU.

In Britain, this comparison was used as an argument against the EU but Mr Soros evidently sees it differently. He

has issued a call for Europe to “please wake up” and recognize “the magnitude of the threat” it faces.

Otherwise

“the European Union will go the way of the Soviet Union in 1991.”

Mr Soros blames

“the lack of legal tools for disciplining member states”

Also attracting his ire is “the outdated party system that prevails in most European countries” (I do not recall this being a problem in the old Soviet bloc), and the fact that changing the treaties that define the EU is too difficult. He also thinks the EU should not have required migrants to register in the first EU country they reached, instead of moving them on over the continent, because that made local electorates more aware of their numbers.

However Mr Soros believes all will yet be well if the Eurocrats

“awaken the sleeping pro-European majority”

Good luck with that.

32 comments to You say that like it’s a bad thing, Mr Soros

  • the lack of legal tools for disciplining member states

    WTF!?!

  • bobby b

    “However Mr Soros believes all will yet be well if the Eurocrats “awaken the sleeping pro-European majority”.”

    I’ll bet he hates the old vampire movies. The vampires do wake up, but only just in time to see the stake being pounded into their hearts.

  • hennesli

    George Soros himself played a significant role in facilitating the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe (his open society foundation that helped in this is named after the Karl Popper book in the header of this blog)

    I think the problem with a figure like Soros is the apparent contradiction between his ‘Open Society’ ideals and what he himself represents: the ability of a single extremely wealthy individual to significantly shape public affairs.

  • Soros not even bothering to disguise the fascism now.

  • Roué le Jour

    Unless we’re talking about politicians rather than citizens, I see no evidence whatsoever that there is any such thing as a “pro-European majority”, sleeping or otherwise.

  • TomJ

    Unless we’re talking about politicians rather than citizens, I see no evidence whatsoever that there is any such thing as a “pro-European majority”, sleeping or otherwise.

    I beg to differ, while noting that a pro-rated European majority is a very different thing from a pro-EU majority.

  • Snorri Godhi

    George Soros himself played a significant role in facilitating the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe (his open society foundation that helped in this is named after the Karl Popper book in the header of this blog)

    There was something unconvincing about this, so i did the obvious: i checked Wikipedia and found that the Open Society Foundation was founded in 1993. It might have done some good in the former communist countries, but the hardest work had already been done.

  • Unless we’re talking about politicians rather than citizens, I see no evidence whatsoever that there is any such thing as a “pro-European majority”, sleeping or otherwise. (Roué le Jour, February 13, 2019 at 7:18 am)

    As it says on tombstones, “He is not dead but only sleeping.”

    EUrocrats joke about whether Brexitters go to hell or are rejected even from hell as likely to disturb its unity. One can see that if the late ‘pro-EU majority’ is now in residence there, it might feel that way.

    For myself, I think the best joke of all is that, even as the EU pressures us to call of Brexit at the last minute minus one, they simultaneously cannot help themselves getting caught in public saying these wonderfully motivating things.

  • Tim the Coder

    the lack of legal tools for disciplining member states
    Wearing field-grey, or black?

  • George Soros himself played a significant role in facilitating the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe (his open society foundation that helped in this is named after the Karl Popper book in the header of this blog) (hennesli, February 12, 2019 at 10:40 pm

    There was something unconvincing about this, so i did the obvious: i checked Wikipedia and found that the Open Society Foundation was founded in 1993. It might have done some good in the former communist countries, but the hardest work had already been done. (Snorri Godhi, February 13, 2019 at 8:49 am)

    As in the west, so in the east, the Soros foundation has always seemed to me like the Isaac Deutscher’s biography of Stalin, John Rawls’ difference theory and etc: way-forward guides for socialists who had reached the point of not wanting to defend the current incarnation of socialism any longer and were now ready to move on to the “next time, we’ll do socialism right” stage. The date of Soros’ OS founding does not just ridicule the idea that it had anything to do with the already-happened ‘collapse of communism’. It suggests it is more likely to have something to do with the way that socialism, seemingly utterly discredited in the year of its founding, has now indeed moved on to the “next time we’ll get socialism right” stage. That is certainly what Soros funds in the west where, lacking the east’s memories, it has had much success.

    This would certainly fit well with the fact that Soros sees the Soviet Union and its collapse as a fit analogy to the EU he supports and whose collapse he fears.

  • Albion's Blue Front Door

    I have no idea where Mr Soros lives. if he is resident in Europe its forthcoming–and dare I say, inevitable–collapse might affect him more than, oh I dunno, living in the Americas or basking on some sun-drenched Pacific island. If he doesn’t live among us peasants, and has no vote in it, then I am curious what his interest is.

    Unless of course it is the fear of losing financial sway and benefit. In which case, my near-fellow-European, I would like my mortgage paid for me, please. I might be more willing to be disciplined by your stormtroopers if all financial burdens were removed from me. Thanks.

  • Stonyground

    “Next time, we’ll do socialism right.”

    The problem is that they always have to put it into practice just one more time before they will admit that it still doesn’t work. Even then some of them still won’t admit it and remain convinced that it will surely work next time.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    I am unaware of what George Soros did to bring about the fall of the Communist empire prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall. If there were actions he took, I’d be interested to find out. Contrast his stance with the efforts of people such as Prof. Roger Scruton, who took risks to educate and motivate students behind the Iron Curtain in the 1980s, for instance.

    Doesn’t it cross this man’s mind that for some people, the EU, while it may have started broadly as a free trade zone with a few bells and whistles, is now taking on more and more powers, and creating, not ameliorating, tensions between its members?

    This is what I don’t get with some on the Remain side – the utter refusal to accept that the EU is the cause of some of the current problems that ail Europe, and that the drive towards a centralised state, with a democratic deficit, is bound to end in trouble. There appears to be no pause for reflection, remorse or call for reform, other than a desire for “more Europe”.

  • Paul Marks

    Mr George Soros sincerely believes that he is NOT a totalitarian – after all he was attacking the totalitarian “Social Credit” project of the People’s Republic of China only a week or so ago, and saying (quite correctly) that it was horrifying that many large Western Corporations wanted to use technology to help create similar totalitarianism in the West – meaning that people would be judged on whether they expressed the “correct” opinions and behave in the “correct” way, rather than just paying money for goods and services and being allowed to have any political, social and religious opinions they want.

    HOWEVER, the “Open Society Foundation” to which Mr Soros has given many billions (yes billions) of Dollars is dominated by TOTALITARIANS – people who have supported the Cuban and Venezuelan regimes. Mr Soros just hears them say they support “freedom” and “equal rights” – and he does not question further.

    Ditto Mr Soros himself wants the European Union to “discipline” “member states” – and getting rid of traditional political parties (because they do not support the policies that he, Mr Soros, wants – such as “Free Migration”) and he also wants people not-to-know how many Third Worders are arriving – because, if they found out, ordinary people would object to this population replacement. This coming of a new population group to displace the existing population. Which has happened before in human history – many times (although it is not considered P.C. to mention it). Why should the existing population of various European Union countries support their own extermination in order to create Living Space (LEBRENSRAUM Mr Soros) for rival population groups coming in under “Free Migration”? And why should they be DECIEVED into accepting the population movement till it is too late to do anything about it. “Do not let them know – then they will eventually have to accept it” what the bleep sort of policy-of-genocide is that?

    LISTEN TO YOURSELF Mr Soros – you started off determined to fight totalitarianism (both National Socialism and Marxism) but you have become the totalitarian, and you enable the very Marxists (who now control the “Open Society Foundation”) you set out to oppose with the “Open Society” – you believe that anyone who says they are a “liberal” and supports “equal rights” must be a good person, and you do not QUESTION anything.

    Mr George Soros and the other “Woke” Billionaires – if you ran your business life in the same careless (take everything at face value) way you handle your politics – you would be sleeping in a cardboard box on a street.

    It is not “Nazi” to OPPOSE the creation of Lebrensraum Mr Soros – the governments of Poland and Hungary and Austria and Italy are not “Nazi” Mr Soros. They do NOT want to conquer anywhere – they want to PREVENT the conquest of their own countries and the destruction of their own peoples. “But the new people will assimilate” NO THEY WILL NOT – other than in utterly trivial ways (such as Association Football and Pop Music – whilst they and their children and children’s children get rid of the existing population).

    Actually it is “Nazi” to SUPPORT the creation of Lebrensraum (“Living Space”) for invaders who wish to displace the existing populations of various European (and other Western) countries.

    Mr Soros dreams of “One Europe” and indeed “One World” – his name comes from Esperanto, a “World Language” for ONE WORLD – to Mr Soros there should be no independent Hungary (and yet he wonders why the Hungarian government dislikes him – and FALSELY thinks it is antisemitism) and no independent Britain, and no independent ISRAEL either (oh yes he hates Jewish Nationalism as much as he hates Hungarian or Polish Nationalism).

    Would Mr Soros support “Free Migration” in a “One World” including Israel? YES HE WOULD – he does not see that this would mean six million DEAD JEWS.

    The policies of Mr Soros would lead to the extermination of the Jewish people (although he is blind to this – as he is blind to all political reality which conflicts with his “One World” dream) yet to oppose him is “Nazi” according to the Marxists who control the organisations that Mr Soros (in his utter demented folly) has given BILLIONS of Dollars to.

  • Paul Marks

    Supporters of Ayn Rand tend to blame everything on Kant – sometimes unjustly, but this time they have a point.

    The idea of One World Government, democratically elected (although with elections “guided” by an educated elite) and with Free Migration – goes back to the philosopher Kant.

    Kant failed to see (just as Mr Soros fails to see) that a One World Government (especially one with an electoral system guided by an educated elite) must end up being an UTTER TYRANNY.

    People using such words as “Liberalism”, “Freedom”, “Liberty”, “Open Society” does NOT alter this.

    I am reminded of the Westminster Review crowd of the early 19th century – who wished to replace the influence of landowners and Churchmen with the influence of an educated elite in a Jeremy Bentham style Civil Service structure.

    At least this bunch were open in their support for Thomas Cromwell (newly fashionable on the left today – “Wolf Hall” and so on – although Thomas Cromwell’s ideas of government departments covering X,Y,Z did not happen in his own lifetime) and Thomas Hobbes.

  • Rob

    A single EU versus many nation states – which is easier for a wealthy political activist to influence, coerce and control?

  • pete

    The USSR had more than legal tools to discipline member states. It had tanks as we saw in Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

    And it still fell apart in the end.

    Mr Soros and other obsessive EU supporters need to get some sort of perspective and realise that the bloc is merely an international political agreement which will come and go like many before it, not a milestone in the history of human development.

  • Andrew Douglas

    Pete
    The creation of a single European army would give the EU tanks. It would be useless for anything except providing the means to suppress a restive population (given the very limited capabilities of any but the French forces).

  • Snorri Godhi

    The creation of a single European army would give the EU tanks. It would be useless for anything except providing the means to suppress a restive population (given the very limited capabilities of any but the French forces).

    Hear, hear! Samizdata Quote of the Week!

    But i read that Germany is contributing a little bit of money to the armed forces of some countries between it and Russia. That is a small step in the right direction.

  • Snorri Godhi

    A comment on the Open Society: book and concept.

    The book: after reading bits of Plato and Aristotle at first hand, i feel that Popper underrated them. In particular, Popper failed to appreciate some positive developments in the political philosophy of the late Plato: the Statesman and Laws.
    As for Aristotle, Popper gave a cogent criticism of his metaphysics, but did not say much of substance about his politics: just a breezy dismissal. (This is all from memory, though.)
    The part about Hegel was even worse, since it did not make any sense. (Hegel never made much sense to me, but when my high-school textbook makes more sense than Popper, i know that Popper got it wrong.)
    I did not read the part on Marx.

    That is not to say that the book is not worth reading, including the footnotes. I’m just saying that it has weaknesses. One of these weaknesses is the concept of open society. I feel that it is too fuzzy, which makes it possible for people like Soros to turn it into ruling-class propaganda. I think that Popper did the right thing in his Economist essay, The Open Society Revisited, by focusing on his theory of democracy rather than on the open society itself.

  • Sigivald

    the European Union will go the way of the Soviet Union in 1991

    Collapse under its own weight and awfulness, and free, at least sort of, everyone it was keeping down?

    He thinks that’s bad?

  • Flubber

    George Soros’s funding of the NGO Taxi service in the Med did more to awaken people to the utter uselessness of the EU than anything else..

  • ns

    “the current problems that ail Europe” Johnathan Pearce – I’m sure you realize that for some Remainers, and the EU ‘elite’, those problems are minor because they are insulated from them. ‘Some eggs have to be broken’ but it’s always someone else’s eggs, never theirs.
    As for the UN Global Compact On Migration, Paul M, does that mean that Cecil Rhodes is back in favor with the UN, EU, and other leftists? 😛

  • CharlieL

    One world government means no place to run to, no place to hide. And there are too many one-worlders for them all to be near the top of the heap. Sooner or later, a Stalinesque figure emerges – –

  • Julie near Chicago

    Very interesting analysis of Soros’s motivating vision (and bête noir) and strategy. And what that has to do with Facebook and other “social media.”

    https://libertyunyielding.com/2018/10/17/the-great-facebook-purge-soross-signature-tactics-and-the-crisis-in-social-media/

    “The great Facebook purge: Soros’s signature tactics and the crisis in social media”
    By J.E. Dyer October 17, 2018

  • Runcie Balspune

    legal tools for disciplining member states

    One political entity dominating other political entities.

    Any room for individual people in there, Mr Soros?

    Once you’ve transgressed from considering any political entity is separate from the individuals that compose that entity, you’ve entered into the dark tyrannical realm once occupied by the Soviet.

  • Rich Rostrom

    The EU cannot collapse in the same way as the USSR. The USSR was a dictatorship propped up by its police and army. It collapsed when the army and police refused to obey it, instead accepting the leadership of Yeltsin, who had apparent mass popular support.

    The EU is a sort of oligarchy – the EU central bureaucracy represents the collective force of the national governments. They in turn are maintained by their police and armies, who obey the national governments because they have electoral legitimacy. (Macron, Merkel, etc, are vile, but they did win elections.) Power is thus decentralized, and remains substantially legitimate. There is no chance of an EU coup d’état.

    The EU would “collapse” like the USSR if the pro-EU ruling cliques in member states lost all popular support, but continued to rule by rigged elections, and then opposition figures rose up, manifesting genuine popular support in the streets, and the army and police transferred allegiance.

  • @Rich:

    I hear what you are saying about EU collapse, but I think you are wrong. The EU maintains support because it fêtes European national politicians (who are its natural constituents, not the wider European electorate) and it provides a means of them transforming political power into cold, hard cash and a nice tax free pension without actual accusations of graft.

    Your view that “Power is thus decentralized, and remains substantially legitimate. There is no chance of an EU coup d’état.” is largely correct, but it ignores the fact that some European politicians are playing the EU at its own game (like the Hungarians), in that they denounce the EU for domestic political consumption, but still take the money it provides.

    Post-BRExit, I suspect that a new balance will come into play, which will be exacerbated by the 2020-2027 EU budget cycle (which reduces the number of net recipients of EU largess), such that the question will arise of “Whether our country can do better outside the EU than within it”.

    Due to EU criticism and interference in domestic affairs (judiciary, migration, etc.) a number of Eastern European countries are keeping a weather eye on what happens to the UK post-BRExit to see if this can be used as leverage against the EU or whether they should leave, particularly the Visegrád Group (Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia)

    I suspect that the EU will begin to fragment because of the inherent divides within the EU already (economically North / South and politically East / West). These divides are being made worse by the problems of the Eurozone.

    I don’t think the EU will collapse in a single USSR type event, but rather that there will be an acknowledgement that the EU has expanded too far and too fast. There will be a retrenchment back to a much smaller Eurozone (Benelux + DE, FR and AT) and those outside this rump EU will become a more loosely connected free trade zone with their own reinstated national currencies, probably EFTA or some modified variation.

    Whether the stated goal of “ever closer union” can be achieved after such a retrenchment I don’t know. I certainly hope not, since it is against the interests and freedom of the people of Europe.

  • Julie near Chicago (February 14, 2019 at 4:23 am) thanks for the link with its interesting analysing of Soros’ tactics. The author is right that we ignore this stuff at our peril.

  • Snorri Godhi

    Checking out Julie’s link, i found it less than convincing.
    Deep into the essay, the author says that:

    In studying that raid, almost everyone has focused on the fact that Soros gained $1.5 billion from it in the span of a month.

    And then, in the next paragraph, goes on to say:

    […] we must start with the obvious question: why did Soros in 1992 want to kill the ERM? What could have been the purpose?

    Duh! you mean gaining $1.5 billions could not possibly have been the purpose?

  • Julie near Chicago

    Well, he might have had two things in mind: To kill the ERM, and to gain $ 1.5 billion while he was at it.

    Did you read the rest of the article, Snorri? It isn’t about the $ 1.5 billion, after all. It’s looking to see if there’s a pattern in the way Soros operates, and also to consider why he does what he does — per the article, to break the systems that keep the world’s nation-system going, since he doesn’t believe in nations but rather wants a one-world government, if I understand Ms. Dyer aright.

    And to see the Facebook Purges as being another operation in the same pattern.

    Like any good megalomaniac, he’s trying to manipulate the nations into fulfilling his vision, if Ms. Dyer is correct. I do think it’s an interesting theory.

    .

    Niall, I agree that we ought to be paying attention to these shenanigans, beyond just muttering among ourselves that the guy’s a bustard.

    I believe I’ve heard an old proverb that goes, “Know your enemy.” Of course, even if you get the salt onto his tail, you’ve still got to corral him — not to mix metaphors. Else “the whole ship will come off the rails.” *g*

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