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Samizdata quote of the day

It is manifestly clear that the idea that the EU equals security and Brexit equals isolation (splendid or otherwise) for Britain is complete bunkum. It should be perfectly possible for the major players to cooperate against ISIS as national governments, within or outwith the European Union, and to work together closely, without the need for an ever-expanding and self-serving EU superstructure.

Iain Martin

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26 comments to Samizdata quote of the day

  • Fred Z

    The EU is an outmoded mainframe, the target should be a distributed number of national, even provincial, PCs networked by trade and other protocols.

    It takes a politician to still love the idea of big and clumsy.

    Hansestadt London? Has a ring to it.

  • RAB

    Interpol has been around since the 1950’s. It didn’t need a flag or an Anthem, or five presidents to make it work, it just took cooperation in mutual interest.

    Having said that, we don’t share much Intelligence with the EU, or them with us, why? because we don’t trust them, or them us. Britain and the USA gather most of the info and pass what needs to be known to the rest. What a great European family we are!

  • mike

    “…within or outwith the European Union…”

    “Outwith”! I’d forgotten that word existed.

  • Mr Ed

    “Outwith” seems to be a term used in Scots english in place of “without” as in ‘without a city wall’ in that dirge of a hymn.

  • The only security that the EU provides is job security for bureaucrats and ex-national politicians needing a spin on the EU gravy train to provide a boost to their pensions. When the poster boys for the EU are the likes of Martin Schultz, Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson you know it is a loser.

    Having said that, we don’t share much Intelligence with the EU, or them with us, why? because we don’t trust them, or them us. Britain and the USA gather most of the info and pass what needs to be known to the rest. What a great European family we are!

    In fairness a lot of that goes back to Allan Dulles and especially James Jesus Angleton being duped by Philby et al and then being lied to about it by British Service chiefs. Angleton became paranoid about sharing information with anyone and Moscow Centre played on these fears by inventing evidence of the mole “Sasha” who never existed.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    I hesitate to step into a family fight, but if the EU were going to be collectively taking steps to combat Islamist terrorism, wouldn’t it be doing something by now? Brexit may be the only way to free the UK to take effective action.

  • charliel

    How about an “AU”, Anglophone Union? But without all the bureaucratic BS.

    I know, I know; the lack of a large bloodsucking bureaucracy would last what? Ten years? But they could be glorious years.

  • Dom

    Mr Ed, “outwith” means beyond. “The cure is outwith my knowledge”. It’s not the same as “without” at all.

  • CaptDMO

    But…but….I was told that EU was ALL about….global economics, and “fair share”!
    In the hands of award winning, internationally recognized, economists.
    The newspapers SAID so!

  • Laird

    Dom, that’s incorrect. One of the definitions of “without” is “outside” or “beyond”. It’s a synonym for “outwith”, which to my understanding is actually just a Scottish regionalism, not a commonly used term at all.

  • Dom

    Alisa and laird, sorry, you’re both wrong. “Without my knowledge” means I
    didn’t know about it. “Outwith my knowledge” means above my scholarship. That’s an
    Import difference.

    I’m being a little picky because I once found Anthony Burgess correcting a man for using it like me Ed.

    This has examples. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/outwith

  • In response to the Brussel’s attacks, the European Union’s foreign policy chief (Italian Federica Mogherini), gave the following statement:

    “Europe and its capital are suffering the same pain that the Middle East has known and knows every single day, be it in Syria, be it elsewhere.” She dismissed “the idea of a clash between Islam and the West.” On the contrary, “Islam,” she said, “holds a place in our Western societies. Islam belongs to Europe … I am not afraid to say that political Islam should be part of the picture.”

    I don’t doubt she is “not afraid to say…”; a eurocrat would feel more afraid of losing her job if she said the opposite. But am I allowed to feel afraid that she said this?

    (Reported at http://nypost.com/2016/03/27/brussels-is-what-happens-when-liberals-dont-push-immigrants-to-integrate/ via instapundit. Worthy of a SQotD in its own right IMHO. 🙂 )

  • Runcie Balspune

    outwith sounds much better than sans, I doubt there’d have been much controversy with Comic Outwith.

  • Mr Ed

    Dom,

    Have you ever been to St Martin’s Without?

    Can you begin to understand, or imagine, how it got its name?

    And why would one base one’s language on an obscure author, when you can base it on what you hear in real conversations with living people?

  • Mr Ed

    From what I have read, WW2 was prosecuted by the UK with co-operation and alliances with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, France (for a while), the United States, Brazil (for a while), El Salvador and others for whom I am grateful, without any formation of a supra-national sovereign authority, just rather a lot of generosity on the part of the USA especially.

    Whereas today, the EU and its baggage is actually facilitating the enemy.

  • RRS

    Perhaps Brexit more closely equals insulation rather than isolation from the differences of “continentalism” (universality) from England’s historic individualities.

    Read: Alan Macfarlane and Emmanuel Todd

  • Alisa

    Dom, have you bothered looking at the link I posted?

  • Alisa

    Just ran into this.

  • Paul Marks

    “Operation Fear” (the campaign to keep Britain under this extra layer of government that is the E.U. – with its endless regulations and edicts) is really irritating.

    The whole campaign for the E.U. is based upon wild lies.

  • DOM,

    Just accept it, ‘without’ has broader meaning than you are so far willing to accept. “Without a city wall” can mean ‘lacking a city wall’, which is the meaning you seem to be happiest with, however, it can also mean ‘outside a city wall’, an antonym of ‘within’, which is the meaning within the hymn. This latter meaning is a synonym for ‘outwith’.

    Both are correct.

  • Dom

    I admit defeat on “outwith”. My apologies to all.

    On a second note: Niall, that comment wasn’t in response to Brussels. It was made last year. You can see the official statement here.

    http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150625_07_en.htm

    I still hate the statement, but it’s not as ghastly as you might think.

  • Julie near Chicago

    From the OED.
    Note: [] In the original. {} indicates material not copied here, and commentary by me (“–J.”).

    north. = northern (dialect)
    Sc. = Scotch {sic. OED says Scotch not Scottish. –J.}


    Outwith
    {pronunciation} prep and adv. Chiefly north.; now only Sc.; {word variants, some using thorns, in various locales}. [f. OUT adv. + WITH prep.: cf. INWITH, and WITHOUT (in which the same elements are transposed.).]

    ..A. prep. 1. Without; outside of.
    ………………………a. Of position. {Examples of usages from 1200 through 1885.}
    ………………………b. Of motion: Out of; out from. {Examples of usages from 1375 through 1553-4.}

    ……………….2. Of time; beyond. Obs. {Example. One from 1300’s — I think. –J.}

    ..B. adv.
    ……………….1. Of position; Without: On the outside; outwardly. {Examples c.1200 through 1582-86.}
    ……………….2. Of direction: Out. {Examples, 1375 – 1871.}

    * * * * *

    Source: The Compact Oxford English Dictionary, p. 2029.

    Note. The “OED” here cited is the Compact Oxford English Dictionary, ©1971, 10th U.S. printing, 1975.
    It is the complete standard OED, 1933 E., but with print size much reduced so that the work consists of two 20-ton volumes instead of the standard OED’s 12 tomes.

  • Chip

    Someone needs to tell Canada and New Zealand that they are horrible places to live because they haven’t relinquished their borders, laws and monetary policy to their neighbors.

  • Nicholas (Excentrality!) Gray

    You should also tell that to the Swisse! They are surrounded by EUtopia, and they don’t want to join in! What is wrong with them? And those Israelis, with their tight border controls! Snobs!

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Britain was able to work with nations such as West Germany (as it then was) for almost two decades until joining the EEC (as it was called at the time) and were able to swap intel. about fighting the Soviets. The idea that sovereign nation states cannot do so without creating some vast, over-arching infrastructure full of bureaucrats and so on is a nonsense. There is a sort of “cargo cult” approach here: people see vast organisations purportedly concerned with working to deal with X or Y and cannot imagine any alternative. We have, as a result of membership of the EU, become institutionalised.