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Arise, Sir Joris

Joris Luyendijk is actually Dutch but honorary knighthoods can be conferred on foreigners who “have made an important contribution to relations between their country and Britain”. I think he qualifies. He writes,

Yes, we would strangle or crush the English in the post-Brexit negotiations, the way any group of nations comprising 450 million people would to an opponent eight times smaller who has just tried to blackmail them

This is why the best way forward for Europe is to threaten to hit the English as hard as we can. We must stop treating membership of the EU as a favour granted by England, and instead make the English feel their vulnerability and dependence.

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47 comments to Arise, Sir Joris

  • Mr Ed

    You can see how deranged the writer is by the following quote from his article:

    But alas, what a missed opportunity this referendum is. A child can see that the EU needs fundamental reform and just imagine for a moment that England had argued not for a better deal for Britain, but for all of us Europeans.

    How electrifying it would have been if Cameron had demanded an end to the insanely wasteful practice of moving the European parliament back and forth between Strasbourg and Brussels. If he had insisted on a comprehensive overhaul of the disastrous common agricultural policy, on the long overdue reduction in salaries and tax-free perks for Eurocrats, and on actual prosecution of corrupt officials. Instead he has set his sights on largely symbolic measures aimed at humiliating and excluding European migrants, safeguarding domestic interests versus those of the eurozone and, no surprises here, guarantees for London’s financial sector.

    I.e. the EU is foul, vile, wasteful, corrupt, but those who dare to ask to leave and leave us helpless in this sinking boat must suffer: Stockholm Syndrome.

  • I think the good Cloggie would find a sizeable chunk of his own people desperately want Britain to stay in because they don’t wish to become vassals of the French-German alliance following a Brexit. He really ought to be concentrating on making sure that doesn’t happen, not punishing the Brits.

  • pete

    Joris seems to be treating Brexit as some form of apostasy which must be punished.

  • This is why the best way forward for Europe is to threaten to hit the English as hard as we can.

    Well, we took on the Armada. We took on Napoleon. We took on the Kaiser. We took on Hitler. We took on the Soviets…

    So bring it on!

  • Gareth

    I find this bizarre:

    First and foremost, this means a change of tone. For many mainland Europeans the EU offers the promise of freedom from the threat of nationalism. But the English have a different experience. They are taught to believe that nationalism is what saved them from Adolf Hitler and, as a consequence, they see no need for a post-national political entity.

    Creating a proper EU nation is in no way ‘post-national’. All a reformed EU offers is a different flag for nationalists to wrap themselves in.

  • Lee Moore

    Let’s hope Sir Joris’ puts a bit of spine into the EU’s negotiators. If only they can be persuaded to offer Cameron nothing at all, not even a fig leaf, then there might be a chance of escaping from this Heath Robinson contraption.

  • Natalie Solent (Essex)

    To be fair to the future Sir Joris, he’s a troll. But many a true attitude is revealed in jest.

  • Regional

    England is a substantial market for European manufacturers.

  • England is a substantial market for European manufacturers.

    Indeed. You would have thought the French and German car manufacturers would be pretty keen to keep the cross-channel trade free.

  • llamas

    Let’s look past Joris’s plaintive blathering about how the Europeans are going to stamp their feet and punish the British if they leave. As if any European nation now has either the economic power or political will to waste on ‘punishing’ a member who chooses to leave their foundering and bankrupt club. They all have far more serious issues to deal with, including the impending monetary collapse of multiple members and a migrant crisis that we are only now seeing the real impacts of.

    Let’s get down to the basic purpose of the EU, pithily captured here:

    and understand that, for all the members that are not either France or Germany, the EU is their only bulwark against the inevitable that always happens in European politics, namely, France and Germany in conflict. The smaller nations can’t afford the example of a member of the EU choosing to leave, and then doing so, because it will immediately open the door to a dozen other members starting down the same road. And then NL and Belgium and Luxemburg and Denmark and a bunch of other smaller EU nations will be left at the mercy of the French and the Germans – again.

    If he were smarter than he is, Joris would say “Good for the British for considering the whole of their national interests and allowing the people to decide whether or not the EU is a good idea for them. More nations in the EU should follow suit.” A few such threats to the continuation of the EU might actually bring reform to the bloated and corrupt Leviathan that is the EU. But he is so brainwashed by 50 years of Europrop – Europe, no matter what – that he’s happy to accept that all its nations must subordinate their national interest to the European ideal, to the point where he lashes out like this when others see things differently. Mrs Thatcher warned 20 years ago or more about the road to a Federal Europe, and all that that might mean, and now we are seeing it come true, to the point where national leaders are quite content to ignore the will of their peoples and mortgage their nation’s security and economy to the European ideal that they all now worship.

    llater,

    llamas

  • Is anyone actually intimidated by the EU? As Napoleon said, “I’d rather fight than join an alliance”…

  • Watchman

    I think we can discount anyone who thinks that Britain fought the second world war for nationalistic reasons, considering that Germany would have happily signed a peace treaty with minimal effects on Britain (and even more happily not gone to war – we were not the enemy they wanted). Whilst Churchill may have been a nationalist (probably the nicest thing he was much of the time…), Chamberlain was hardly nationalistic, and I doubt Atlee was particularly either, both of whom (along with many others) were important parts of the decision to fight.

    Unfortunately the attitude of Herr Luyendijk is hardly unusual. Most of my educated friends on the continent share a similiar fear of nationalism, to the extent that they feel nationalistic groups have to be defeated at the cost of actual debate and choice. Wierdly the same friends were the first to alert me to the issue of non-integrated immigrant (and I mean immigrant – there is more than one religion involved) communities in cities and their attitudes towards women (the wonderful filming of attitudes towards a single white woman wearing relatively revealing clothing walking through these areas of Brussells). But as these attitudes are not nationalistic they seem to be considered more favourably than nationalism, despite the fact they seem much more dangerous.

  • Julie near Chicago

    Yes, llamas, but at least Mr. Hacker managed to retain the honourable name of the British Sausage.

  • Alsadius

    > Clearly multinational corporations from China, Brazil or the US cannot have their European HQs outside the EU.

    It’s amazing how he thinks he gets some choice in the matter.

  • llamas

    @JnC – I preferred the high-fat offal tube, myself. So descriptive.

    In February of this year, so I am told, the butcher’s shop of R.J. Balson, of Bridport in Dorset – documented as the oldest continually-operated business establishment in the UK – will once again offer its English breakfast sausages through US Costco outlets for a limited time. Do not miss the opportunity to enjoy this uniquely-British delicacy. Just don’t think about how it’s made.

    llater,

    llamas

  • mojo

    The EU couldn’t rumble a kitten.

  • Laird

    llamas, thanks for the heads-up. As a regular Costco customer I shall be on the alert for said high-fat offal tubes.

    As to Brexit, there is an article in today’s Wall Street Journal (behind a paywall, unfortunately) which is clearly sympathetic to Britain’s remaining in the EU, and highlighting all the terrible consequences of leaving, etc. However, the reader comments seem to be about 90% skewed toward exit. Interesting.

  • Paul Marks

    The man seems to be confusing “England” with the United Kingdom – a mistake that only rather ignorant people make.

    As for his insults and threats – well I suppose one could call him out for a duel. But people of this sort are usually, although not always, cowards – most likely he would not turn up, or run crying to the police.

    Also he has actually done a great service…..

    He has made it very clear that pro E.U. people HATE “England” and the “English” – the pro E.U. people are enemies of this land, he shouts his hatred.

    Well at least it is out in the open now.

    So be it.

  • Mr Ed

    The man seems to be confusing “England” with the United Kingdom – a mistake that only rather ignorant people make.

    I raise you Vice-Admiral of the White Viscount Nelson KB. 🙂

    In Spanish, the term ‘inlgés’ seems to be synomymous with ‘británico’, it may be that the Dutchman speaks through the prism of his harsh mother tongue.

  • Nicholas (Andy.royd) Gray

    Perry, have you forgotten that Napoleon lost, and to an alliance? Not the best example for what you had in mind, surely?
    And I read recently that hippos can also be cannibals! I suggest a wombat for a pet, instead.

  • Regional

    Nicholas,
    That’s just sexist, wombats, eat roots and leaves.

  • Regional

    Remember Englanders, in the great Libertarian tradition you may be at war with ’em, but you can still trade with ’em.
    Remember Englanders, Scotland, Wales and Ulster are bludging neighbours who are constantly coming over to get a cup of sugar or butter and you have to kiss their arse in gratitude.
    How many Frogistanis and Rhinelandistanis live in London?

  • I’ve always said that the EU has nourished in its darkest heart of hearts a compulsion to cannibalize Britain (or England, or the UK). To suck it dry economically and then spit it out like the shell of a sunflower seed. Just as long as it’s brought down to, say, the new German level. Or to the French level. Britain, for all its “quirks” and traditions and whatnot, is too damned AMERICAN!

  • Regional

    Edward,
    English entrepreneurs launched the Industrial Revolution.
    England was introducing steam power before Waterloo.

  • Regional: I know that England led the Industrial Revolution. And it led in other realms. For example, Samuel Johnson put together the first comprehensive dictionary of the English language, working with a small staff of probably underpaid Scottish clerks, in about five years. The French have taken decades with a huge bureaucracy to put together a dictionary of French, and they still haven’t finished it. I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point.

  • Eric

    I think we can discount anyone who thinks that Britain fought the second world war for nationalistic reasons, considering that Germany would have happily signed a peace treaty with minimal effects on Britain (and even more happily not gone to war – we were not the enemy they wanted).

    Indeed. After Dunkirk the Germans were so sure the UK would sue for peace they didn’t even plan for other eventualities for another six weeks. And they would have been perfectly happy with that peace, too, since it would mean they could put all their efforts into the East.

  • Julie near Chicago

    Edward, you shouldn’a brought up dictionaries. Have you paid any attention to what OUP has done to the venerable OED? Have a look at the so-called “definitions” (written in language a literate 5-year-old can read, and with no distracting detail), and the list of what it pleases them to call “rhymes” for the word under consideration.

    Naturally, it used to be my first go-to online dictionary. No more. Webster’s Combined 1913-1828 is now the best of the lot, 90% of the time.

    Fortunately I do have the 1971 updated version of the 1933 OED in print (Compact OED), but given the size of the print I use the online dictionary whenever I don’t need fine detail.

    Pitiful. OUP should be ashamed of itself.

    . . .

    llamas, thanks for the hedzup on the high-fat offal tube. And thanks for making me lose a solid month acquainting myself with the defender of the British Sausage and his boss–er, his Permanent Secretary. (Have I got that right?) I enjoyed every minute of every episode — you’d be surprised at how many times you can watch the entirety of both series in a single month. :>))!!

    . . .

    Mr Ed, interesting page on the Nelson telegraph. Thanks. :>)

  • TomJ

    @Paul Marks: No, I think that’s a nod to the Scotch “Nationalists” who only want to leave one of the Unions they’re in.

  • JohnW

    Mark Steyn’s classic rant might be worth a revisit.

  • the other rob

    Tim Newman is quite right about the Dutch. I remember seeing a top Dutch comedian perform (decades ago, near Zwolle) and get his biggest laugh when he had the audience count 1-2-3 in German, “…for the future”.

    @ Laird & Llamas – Balson’s has a branch in North Carolina and Spec’s carries their products throughout Texas. http://www.balsonbutchers.com/blogs/rj-balson-blog/37543364-big-news-rj-balson-retail-outlets-across-texas

  • Mr Ed

    Perhaps Mijnheer Yoris has a longstanding grudge against England due to the Navigation Acts, a lamentable series of protectionist measures going back to Cromwell’s time.

    It would not be good to have an opening to the world on account of Brexit being replaced by a reversion to protectionism.

  • Laird

    The other rob, thanks for that info. Their branch in North Carolina appears to be in Asheville (although I haven’t yet located the street address), which is not too far from me (I live in the “other” Carolina). The next time I’m up there I’ll check it out. But in the meantime, Costco is a lot closer!

  • Nicholas (Andy.royd) Gray

    Worryingly, here in Australia, our cheapest stores are Aldies. Who knew that a German store would want to conquer the commercial world?
    All we need now is for a Wal-mart to open up nearby, and they’ll be giving us the food for free! (Until one of them wins, and becomes the Master retailer. One Folk, one Store!)

  • the other rob

    You’re welcome, Laird. I hadn’t realised that you were in SC – I do miss the Charleston Crabhouse, specifically the part where they take a jumbo prawn, stuff it with crab meat, wrap it in bacon and then fry it.

    Last time I was in Asheville, it was to see a band called Hayseed Dixie, who cover songs by the likes of AC/DC and Motorhead – on banjos!

  • Paul Marks

    I will give Nelson a pass Mr Ed – as he was speaking more than two centuries ago.

    I will even given World War II people a pass.

    But it is 2016 – it is time people understood that the United Kingdom is a union of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.

    Calling the United Kingdom “England” really will not do today – it is ignorant.

  • the other rob

    Calling the United Kingdom “England” really will not do today – it is ignorant.

    Somebody should tell the feds that, specifically the BATFE. Whenever I fill out a form 4473, for buying a gun from a dealer, one of the required fields is “Country of birth”. “England” is a valid datum for that field, but “The UK”, “UK”, “United Kingdom” etc. are not.

  • Paul Marks,
    I am pretty sure that Joris Luyendijk is not ignorant of the distinction between the UK and England. He writes, “So this makes it high time for Europeans to take a cold and honest look at the British. Or rather, the English. Scotland is largely pro-EU while Wales and Northern Ireland, with their smaller populations and the less imminent threat of secession, have far less influence.” As I said, he is a troll. Although it may represent an exaggerated version of his real feelings, the main point of the whole piece to be deliberately annoying and get him and the Guardian lotsa luverly clicks. Twisting the knife in the post-referendum wound was a means to that end.

  • By the way, isn’t it odd that neither the United Kingdom or the United States has a proper demonym? “British” wrongly leaves out the Northern Irish. “American” wrongly includes all the other countries in the Americas. I have sometimes seen words like “UK-ian” and “USA-ian” used, but mostly in a scornful sense. Someone ought to repurpose them as neutral descriptive terms or, better yet, think up more euphonious terms to do the same jobs.

  • Mr Ed

    Natalie, the media use the term ‘Briton’ for a UK citizen abroad in some misfortune, e.g. Three Britons were drowned when a ferry sank in Indonesia, along with 521 others who don’t really count

  • mojo

    ‘Twas Charlie 2 put the Dutch in their place, after some small trouble.

    But baby brother James screwed the pooch, and you ended up with William and Mary.

    Dutch.

  • Natalie Solent (Essex)

    Mr Ed, pah. Britons wear woad and sack Camulodunum.

  • Mr Ed

    Woad is for Picts! But others have used it too.

    All woads lead to Rome.

  • Laird

    The other rob, I don’t think BATFE is incorrect on the 4473 form. As I understand it (which, admittedly, could be wrong) “the UK” or “the United Kingdom” refers collectively to the four (nominally-sovereign) countries which comprise it, whereas “England” is an actual country by itself. If they asked you what state you were born in you wouldn’t say “the United States”, you’d say “Virginia” (or whatever). Same thing. Or so it seems to me, anyway.

    What I’m not clear about are the terms “Britain” and “Great Britain”. Are they synonyms for “England”, or for “the United Kingdom”, or for something else entirely? And are they even the same thing, or is there a difference between them?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  • Natalie Solent (Essex)

    Laird, och, mon, wi’ a name like tha’, d’ye no ken yersel?

    Sorrysorrysorry all Scots readers.

    This lady did a nice infographic, even if it does leave out the anomalous status of the Channel Islands and The Isle of Man.

    “Britain” and “Great Britain” are now functionally synonymous but once upon a time “Britain” on its own refered to “Bretagne”, i.e. Brittany, the original land of the Britons, currently crushed under the iron heel of the dastardly French.

    To sum up Great Britain is a subset of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not, therefore, part of Great Britain. However do note that the reaction to any implication that Northern Ireland is not British may vary if you should chance to go for a quarter hour’s stroll along this route.

  • Julie near Chicago

    Natalie, very good diagram. Clear and concise. So except for Wales, all of the Big Island right up to Scotland is properly England. I had the impression that England proper was smaller than that, which left me even more confused than normal. Thanks. :>)

  • Nicholas (Andy.royd) Gray

    Natalie, I suggested years ago that the US could be called South Canada, or Southern Canada! They didn’t listen. Maybe North Mexico would prepare them for the future?
    If Australia incorporated NZ, then Australasia would have four islands, Big Isle and little Isle (Mainland Australia and the island state Tasmania) and North isle and South isle of Nzed). If we then had a defence pact with Papua-New Guinea, they could become the Far North.

  • Laird

    Thanks, Natalie, that’s a useful Venn diagram.

    FWIW, I found my name to be of no help at all when I visited Scotland. Much as I like the accent there, I often was completely at sea when listening to the locals. Lovely country and people, though. I even developed a fondness for haggis (which it appears we will soon be able to import again, praise be). (And the bagpipes; love the bagpipes! Did you know there’s a Museum of Piping in Glasgow?) I hope to go back again someday.