We are developing the social individualist meta-context for the future. From the very serious to the extremely frivolous... lets see what is on the mind of the Samizdata people.

Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]

Bravo Marmite

Marmite… a dark pungent paste in a jar that has been separating men (of all ages) from mere boys (of all ages) since 1902… has once again shown they are The Food of the Gods.

Marmite TV advert draws widespread complaints. A “high volume” of complaints was received after the advert aired on Monday. A TV advert in which a spoof rescue team saves “stricken” jars of Marmite from homes where they have been neglected has prompted 278 complaints.

Some 250 complaints were received by the Advertising Standards Authority in just 24 hours, following the advert’s debut on Monday evening. Those who objected found the advert “offensive” and “in poor taste”, said a spokesman for the ASA. Viewers complained “it trivialises the work of animal welfare charities”.

Poor taste? Bah! Off with their heads! Often one can measure a person’s worth by who they piss off, be they Edward Snowdon (PBUHH) or… Mr. Marmite… it has to be Mr. as this is truly food-with-serious-bollocks.

So here you go, Marmite my mate, some free advertising by Samizdata.net.

Indeed some of us take our Marmite so seriously we have sterling silver lids to replace the ugly plastic ones that they have now rather than the earlier rather marvellous metal ones.


I recommend the Marmite XO for that extra Marmite wallop of gastrogasmic goodness, ideally with some really robust Cheddar.

60 comments to Bravo Marmite

  • Perry Metzger (New York, USA)

    Here in New York City, it is relatively difficult to find Marmite, but we are dedicated enough to always have a jar in the fridge. I have never seen Marmite XO here, however, and confess to having been ignorant of its very existence.

    I’m still looking for a US supply source for Marmite cashews.

  • Ellen

    Both Marmite and Marmite XO are available on Amazon. They even have it in squeeze bottles …

  • Richard Thomas

    I’m not sure if I remember non-plastic lids. And I’m not exactly a nipper.

  • the other rob

    Here in Texas “normal” Marmite, with the yellow lids, is readily available at World Market and also our local “natural” grocers. We always have some on hand, though I’m the only one who likes it.

    Interestingly, one local supermarket chain – United, has just started to carry PG Tips. Now if we can only persuade Frito Lay to start selling their Roast Chicken and Smokey Bacon flavours (as they do in Canada and the UK) I’ll be able to save a fortune…

  • RAB

    It is said that there are only three things likely to survive a nuclear holocaust… Cockroaches, Keith Richard and Marmite. Ych Yr Fie! I loath the stuff, but each to his own, Love it or hate it.

    I loved the Ad though. I know it’s the Silly season, but nowadays all seasons seem to be the Silly season, and Sense of Humour failure is spreading faster than the Black Death.

    PS I am an animal lover by the way, just spend a large amount of money on operations for the Bonkers Dog (coming along nicely) and wouldn’t give the RSPCA spit or the shit off my shoes.

  • Richard Thomas

    Hmm, 1984 for the plastic lid. I should have some recollection… Just one more thing in the bit-bucket I guess.

  • llamas

    I watched the commercial, it’s riotously funny. It captures the breathless self-righteousness of the perpetual do-gooder perfectly. Those who profess to be offended are single-issue obsessives, who can turn anything into an offence to the object of their mania. What my friend Shirley Norway used to call ‘the happy possessors of a lovely grievance.’

    Speaking of Shirley Norway, it was she who weaned me off the weak tea that is Marmite and introduced me to a proper spread for toast – Patum Peperium, aka, The Gentleman’s Relish. Marmite is for sissies. The season being perfect, I’ll have me a cucumber-and-Patum sandwich tonight on Zingermann’s Italian, with the crusts cut off. Heaven.



  • Perry Metzger (New York, USA)

    For dark and trying times, there’s nothing like a dark and pungent yeast extract.

    Ellen, thank you for the Amazon tip — beyond all flavors of the substance itself, they have Marmite cashews! My life is immeasurably improved!

  • Perry Metzger (New York, USA)

    By the way, for all the flaws the United States has, there is no government agency here empowered to “take action” to stop advertisements for being in bad taste regardless of how many people complain, and if anyone tried to create one, it would be blocked within hours or days by a judge as a first amendment violation. Perhaps the last constitutional protection that seems nearly undiminished here is that for free speech.

    The US still serves as a demonstration to the entire world that society survives just fine even if you don’t empower busybodies to interfere in what other people say. Would that our newspapers and television broadcasters would more regularly take advantage of that ability.

  • llamas

    @ Perry Metzger, who wrote:

    ‘By the way, for all the flaws the United States has, there is no government agency here empowered to “take action” to stop advertisements for being in bad taste regardless of how many people complain, and if anyone tried to create one, it would be blocked within hours or days by a judge as a first amendment violation. Perhaps the last constitutional protection that seems nearly undiminished here is that for free speech.’

    Well, that’s not quite true – the Federal Communications Commission regulates the content of over-the-air TV and radio broadcasts, and is empowered to enforce penalties for broadcasts which are deemed obscene or indecent, and they sometimes veer into areas which I would describe as being matters of poor taste. You’ll recall the SuperBowl ‘wardrobe malfunction’ which cost CBS an FCC fine of $550,000 (later vacated on appeal, but you get the idea).

    That being said, I agree that a commercial like this one, which merely satirizes, would never see any sort of regulation in the US. Commercials that make fun of competitors and many other subjects are a staple of US TV. However, there is also only limited First Amendment protection for ‘commercial speech’, and the Supreme Court has fabricated a regime in which the Feds can apply restrictions upon commercial speech which would not be Constitutionally-permissible if applied to private speech.



  • the other rob

    @ RAB: Upon reading the story, I note that the RSPCA bod said “We plan to talk to the makers of Marmite about how we can work together on animal welfare.”

    I take that to mean “We plan on taking advantage if this situation to extort as much money as we can from Marmite.”

  • I claim an affinity for Marmite that almost all will find it difficult to compete with.

    My dear mother, very shortly after my birth, went down with septicaemia – and that poisoned her milk. The milk then poisoned me – and I had great difficult with drinking any of the stuff at all for over a decade.

    By necessity, rejecting all milk, I was fed from the beginning with Marmite (as a hot drink) and chicken broth.

    [Aside, I was also prescribed whisky by the local GP, before the age of 2, for gripe – but I think that was common practice in those days.]

    I am not sure where I fit with Perry’s classification of men and boys (both: of all ages), but I thank Marmite, eternally, for getting me through the first six months.

    Still, occasionally, I take it on hot buttered toast. My family always leaves the room (muttering, sometimes about salt intake) when they see how thick I continue to spread it – despite over three quarters of a century (between them) of being familiar with this particular personal choice.

    I wish a pox on all who disparage any aspect of this most excellent product (which probably cures the complaint – if only one eats, or spreads on appropriate areas, enough of it).

    Best regards

  • RAB

    The other rob…

    I would have thought that the RSPCA would be better off talking to the makers of Bovril, if it wants to help animal welfare (god knows what’s in that). It is a meat product after all, Marmite is a vegetable one. So unless they plan to feed animals on Marmite on toast… 🙂

  • Perhaps they confused Marmite with marmoset, you know, one of those cute animals that get the animal welfare fanatics donations.

    There I am again, being all cynical…

  • Laird

    I take it that Marmite is similar to Vegemite? Not my thing. But I did find the ad funny (especially the last part, with the little boy making an awful face!). Anyone who finds it offensive deserves to be offended, and frequently. Since Marmite’s tagline seems to be “love it, hate it, just don’t ignore it” I suspect that the ad is having exactly the intended effect.

    I noticed a side article to the BBC one Perry linked reporting that 50 (!) people had complained about an Ikea ad with garden gnomes fighting over a garden cleanup. Some people can take offense at anything. It seems to me that having a government agency officially tasked with taking such complaints merely breeds them. You’re creating a nation of whiners.

  • Steven R

    I’m not certain it’s that an agency to take complaints exists so much as the modern world has become an environment where it is unacceptable to tell someone to go be crazy somewhere else. Crackpots have just as much validity as people with legitimate concerns these days.

  • the other rob

    @ Laird: Yes, in a way, although Marmite was supposedly made from the sludge left over after brewing Guinness, while Vegemite presumably comes from Foster’s. Terry Pratchett has an amusing account of the discovery of Vegemite in his book The Last Continent (in which a pseudo Australian announces that his country jails politicians as soon as they are elected because “… it saves time”.)

    RAB: I am also very partial to Bovril, though it is much harder to get in the USA, due to governmental interference. Mrs other rob has confessed to finding my demarcation of beverages by sport (Bovril for the football, Lemon Barley Water for the cricket) quaintly amusing.

  • Perry Metzger (New York, USA)

    Steven R says: “I’m not certain it’s that an agency to take complaints exists so much as the modern world has become an environment where it is unacceptable to tell someone to go be crazy somewhere else. Crackpots have just as much validity as people with legitimate concerns these days.”

    The preferred term is “rationality challenged”, and it would be best if you checked your sanity privilege. I’m not sure if your comments constitute “Hate Speech” as currently defined by law in the UK, but clearly if they do not that must constitute a deficit in the work of the otherwise tireless and thorough government. I’m sure it will be corrected soon enough.

  • Midwesterner

    the other rob,

    Does that mean I can use sludge left over from home brewing to make homemade Vegemite/Marmite? What, just pour a bunch of salt into it and spread it on bread?

  • Perry Metzger (New York, USA)

    Midwesterner: The process is very slightly more involved.

  • the other rob

    Mid – in theory, I suppose that you could. In practice, I suspect that the process may be a little more complicated – Pratchett had Rincewind boiling it down (in addition to the salt).

  • Midwesterner


    Wisconsin is already known for cheese and beer, we have hundreds of small local breweries. I wonder if we could start a new fermentation food product industry?

  • Sam Duncan

    I’m a recent convert to Marmite. We never had it in the house when I was a kid, and for some reason I decided to try it a few months ago. I’m hooked.

    But, since I hold no childhood prejudices, and the local Morrison’s also stocks Vegemite, I thought I’d give it a go and am, as I type, experiencing my first ever Vegemite-on-toast.

    First impressions: it’s more of a paste than the sticky, treacly, Marmite – not unlike Nutella in consistency, now I think of it – so rather easier to spread. Slightly darker in colour. Less salty and a bit milder in flavour, so probably less off-puting to the uninitiated, but more obviously a yeast product. There’s a definite malty, almost beery, smell, where Marmite’s more meaty. (Does anyone not know that the “beef” flavouring for crisps is made of yeast extract? I think it was this that first tempted me to try Marmite.) The aftertaste is pretty much identical.

    Dammit, I think I like them both.

  • the other rob

    I think that you may have something there, Mid. A range of boutique yeast extracts made in small runs, much as microbrews are. Blend the yeast from three or four different beers for each and sell it globally to Marmite / Vegemite connoisseurs.

  • bloke in spain

    Marmite. Jeez! Only the Brits could have a fetish for eating their own excrement. Thanks for reminding me why I left.

  • Rose & Crown

    Call yourself a bloke? Limp. Very limp.

  • RAB

    I can’t stand Bovril or Marmite, the other rob. In fact I have an aversion to what I call “pre-masticated” food in general. So that rules out Peanut Butter too. A friend of mine used to love Peanut butter, garlic sausage and Marmite sandwiches… god his tastes buds were fucked!

    I have to hand it to whoever invented Marmite though, it is the ultimate in re-cycling.

    “What shall we do with all this sludge we have left over after kegging the beer boss, pour it down the sewer or what?”

    “Yeah. Oh hang on though (sticks finger in sludge and samples) that tastes kinda interesting. Tell you what, we’ll muck about with it a bit more then bottle it, and see how it goes. It’ll end up in the sewer in the end, but with a bit more profit for us perhaps!”

    And so it went.

  • Rickard Thomas

    Americans can not appreciate marmite because it is damn hard to find a decent cheese and completely impossible to find bread of sufficient standard to make a proper cheese and marmite sandwich.

  • the other rob

    RAB – I agree with you re peanut butter. I have vague memories of once finding a combination that made it palatable, but I can no longer remember what it was. Indeed, I briefly entertained the possibility that I might be the chap to whom you were referring, except the garlic sausage doesn’t ring a bell. I wonder whether it might have been sardines? Or jalapenos?

    Very witty account of the “discovery” of Marmite, by the way – I laughed.

    Rickard Thomas – while very good cheeses are available in the USA (both domestic – some of the Vermont Cheddars and imported – I have finally found a source of Blue Shropshire) you are correct that most of the so-called cheese that inexplicably finds itself attached to any piece of meat over here is disgusting.

    As for bread, I make do with sour dough or Italian, on account of what passes for normal bread here would be called cake in the UK. I should probably start baking my own, which would give me another source of second hand yeast…

  • the other rob

    I have remembered – it was anchovies. On toast, then done under the grill like cheese on toast.

  • Nick (nice-guy) Gray

    So, which does Perry love more- hippos or marmite?

  • Richard Thomas

    Hmm. I thought I had excised that ‘k’. Still, more grist for the NSA, I guess.

    Rob, it’s true that there are some decent cheeses available if you shop around somewhat but most of them completely miss that certain type of English Cheddar that is just the pinnacle of cheesemaking. Even the imported English Cheddars seem to fall wide of the mark. I *have* found one that falls just exactly right though. The brand is “Seaside” and I must make a point of picking some up tomorrow.

  • Bovril toast with Swiss cheese: now that’s the food of the gods. Marmite is a little too bland for my taste.

  • Andrew Duffin

    The ASA has no teeth. All they can do is huff and puff.

    A business can simply say “We note what you say, we disagree, the adverts will continue” and that’s the end of the matter.

    Brewdog did just that recently, and I trust Marmite will do the same; I note, though, no statement of that nature from them – I fear they may retreat in the face of the righteous onslaught, but I hope my fear is misplaced.

  • The ASA has no teeth

    It can always be given teeth, provided there’s enough political pressure (AKA Public Outrage).

  • llamas

    @ Richard Thomas, who wrote:

    ‘Americans can not appreciate marmite because it is damn hard to find a decent cheese and completely impossible to find bread of sufficient standard to make a proper cheese and marmite sandwich…’

    Oh, nonsense.

    It’s a rare supermarket (at least here in the MidWest) that doesn’t have its own bakery onsite, and even the mass-market Krogers and Meijers produce a range of semi-artisanal breads to satisfy almost any palate. I mentioned Ziongermann’s Italian, above. Plus, there’s several mass-market chains (Panera is the gorilla, but there’s others) that sell hand-made bread in a huge variety of styles. So that just ain’t so.

    Similarly, there’s plenty of excellent American-made cheese – it’s just that the American taste is different than the British. But if you want a good mass-market Cheddar-style that you can buy at any supermarket, the Tillamook brand does a fine job, and it’s a luvvie-approved, farmer-owned co-op, as well! For just a little more effort, you can mail-order to absolutely any stage of chaddaring that you like from a place like Pinconning, MI – a town whose entire existence and reason for being is aged, ‘sharp’ and Cheddar-style cheeses.

    Enough with the nonsense, already.

    My local Meijer (plain-vanilla supermarket) has about 10 feet of full-height shelf space filled with nothing but imported UK foods. 6 brands of tea, Marmite, Heinz baked beans, T&L’s Golden Syrup, Keillors marmalade, Yorkie bars and so forth. I’ll take a picture, next time I’m in there, if someone will tell me how to insert an image into a posting. I suspect you don’t see too many supermarkets in Europe stocking American favourites at that level.



  • RAB

    I thought Heinz was an American company? Surely you can buy the baked beans anywhere?

    I was in a Carrefour in the French Alps a couple of months ago, a supermarket so big clouds were forming under the roof. And it had an English shelf with the marmite, PG Tips, baked beans etc. It was so small I believe they were taking the piss. And you can’t buy Cheddar for love nor money. Not that France is short of Cheese of course, but they are very chauvanistic about it.

    Now then, who’s for a Twiglet?

  • Richard Thomas

    You can buy baked beans (or as it is often called here, “Pork & beans”) everywhere. They’re not Heinz though. We had a taste test at one expat meeting and only one person out of at least 10 chose the non-Heinz brand over Heinz.

    WRT the American favourites, I have an amusing anecdote that when we were living in the UK, we visited the US and my American wife insisted that we take several packets of Oreos back as she missed them so much. Of course, the day after we got back to England, we did a restocking shopping trip and there in the biscuit aisle at Safeways, Oreos… They’d probably been stocking them for sometime.

    As to things like Hersheys, who would stock something that tastes so bad? If you have to be weened on Marmite to like it in later life, the same surely applies to that brand of chocolate with added vomit flavouring.

    Whole foods, Kroger and Publix and World Market here have a selection of UK goods but I have to confess that I have no interest in at least 2/3 of them and for much of the rest, it’s a case of “Not at that price”. Though even Walmart has started to stock Digestives. Civilization definitely has its nose inside the tent.

  • Laird

    Heinz is headquartered in Pittsburgh, where I used to live. I had friends who were executives there. However, they sell their products world-wide and some brands are tailored to local tastes (as with Coke products), so it’s entirely possible that the UK version of baked beans is different than the US version.

    I agree that Mid might be on to something with boutique “artesan” yeast sludges. Especially in the upper Midwest. Anyone who will eat lutefisk or surströmming should love Marmite.

  • llamas, I lived in the USA for many years and I must confess that I found it very very hard to find a ‘sharp’ cheddar that would not be regarded as ‘mild-to-medium’ in the UK. And the few that were actually somewhat ‘sharp’ were very obviously chemically ‘aged’ and left a nasty after-taste. In all the time I lived in the New Jersey/New York area I only ever found one rather good (NY) cheddar that actually had some serious balls, the right texture and did not taste like it was made in a lab next to a swimming pool. But perhaps things have improved over the last 10 years, which would be good news indeed. Certainly food generally has improved almost exponentially in London over that period so I would certainly believe you if you said that was the case.

    Likewise I found good bread fairly hard to find compared to London but nowhere near has difficult as good cheddar. In fact there was a place in Highland Park NJ (whose name escapes me) which sold world class sour doughs and pretty damn good baguettes that I used to slather my stash of Marmite and locally made artisan Cashew Butter on 😀

  • Richard Thomas

    Laird, to my knowledge, though Heinz does indeed sell products around the world, there is, in fact, no American “Heinz Baked Beans”. If any such exists, it is through some kind of subsidiary deal and not branded Heinz at all.

    My father several times told me that they had tried to grow the beans in England but they would not take. Thus we have an American product produced by an American company sold in the UK but not the US. (I have been unable to verify the veracity of his claim, however)

  • llamas

    The Heinz-brand baked beans sold in the UK have a specific flavour that is not found in comparable baked beans in the US. It’s in the sauce – it’s a much lighter, sweeter flavour. Which probably explains why UK baked beans are much-more-commonly eaten with a cooked breakfast or with afternoon ‘tea’, whereas baked beans in the US are generally a side eaten with the evening meal. Beans on toast – nothing else like it.

    PdH, I know what you mean about ‘sharp’ cheddar in the US and the tendency to a chemical or metallic taste, but I assure you that it doesn’t have to be that way anymore. And you can buy ‘sharp’ cheddar in the US that has every bit of the flavour that you would find in the ‘original’. The only negative is that US consumers equate ‘sharp’ flavour with a darker color and so the best and sharpest cheeses have the ghastly orange colour of the worst kind of spray-on tan.

    I was in a dairy outside Ottumwa, IA, a little while back that was making an aged Cheddar that was indistinguishable in any way from the ‘original’ – taste, colour, texture.

    The Americans have mastered baguette – Panera makes as good as any – but are still working on croissants and brioche. If you want the full butter-and-lard French taste, you still have to go to a specialist – the Plum Market chain in suburban Detroit does a 99.875% perfect equivalent, but even Costco croissants aren’t half bad.



  • the other rob

    Richard – when we lived in England, my (US born) wife had a standing order for as many cans of Wolf Brand Chille as I could carry, whenever I came over here on business. I shall look out for “Seaside” Cheddar.

    Beanz Meanz Heinz! I buy mine from Amazon, through its “Subscribe and Save” programme and they work out cheaper than anywhere else.

    Since we seem to be discussing Brit food in the US, here’s a couple of observations along the lines of “almost, but not quite”. I can get “gourmet” steak and kidney pies here (indeed, I had one yesterday, with chips and beans) but I can’t find “high street” steak and kidney pies, like you would get in Greggs. There used to be a place in Seattle, by the fish market called the Australian Pie Company that did them, but they closed.

    Similarly, I can get IPA, Scotch Ale and the like, but all at a very, very high ABV. I’ve yet to find a decent session bitter, like Greene King IPA.

  • Richard Thomas

    Ooh, pies. There’s another subject I could get into. Best idea seems to be to make your own.

  • Laird

    I never knew about the beans before. On its main website Heinz says call them “a household staple in the United Kingdom,” and it has a special web page just for them. Apparently they are only sold in the UK. Live and learn.

  • Achillea

    Anyone who finds it offensive deserves to be offended, and frequently.

    Can’t stand marmite, myself, but I agree. Certain buttons need to be hit as hard and often as possible, and that’s definitely one of them.

  • RAB

    Yes I’m gobsmacked about the Beans revelation too. I thought that what is possibly the simplest,most tasty and nourishing convenience food in a can, was universal, but only us folks in the UK get to partake in that particular variety of it.Well well.

    I knew about Tea though. I went to Sri Lanka a few years ago and it is almost mandatory to visit a tea plantation and factory. While having a cuppa at the end of your tour, your guides will openly boast that only the UK and India gets the first class produce, the rest of the world gets the floor sweepings. And from having drunk “tea” in many different countries now, I can well believe them.

    I always start the day with 3 industrial strength cups of Punjana or Glengettie.

  • No humor, please, we’re British.

  • Julie near Chicago

    Oh now, that’s rare. :>))!!

    How could anybody find the ad offensive?! Some folks don’ got no sensayuma.

    llamas: Artisan bread? at KROGER?? You folks up in Michigan must have a lot classier Krogers than we do in Peoria and Rockford. *g* –Or did. Schnuck’s has bought out Kroger, at least in Illinois.

    Please do not bring up lutefisk, as anyone who eats the stuff risks bringing it up. That includes my guaranteed-100%-Swedish-extraction sister-in-law, whose mother always made it for the holidays. Well I say it’s fish paste, and I say the hell with it! 😉

  • Schnucks is now in IL? Wow, it’s been a while…

  • The Wobbly Guy

    Hmmm… Heinz beans are also a near staple here in Singapore. But other than foreign ang-mohs, nobody here has heard of marmite, much less eaten it.

  • llamas

    @ Julie near Chicago – I said semi-artisanal.

    By which I mean – made from scratch, on the premises, in small batches and essentially by hand.

    My local Kroger sells about a dozen different breads this way. Half-a-dozen are what you might call ‘staples’ that they sell every day – baguette, Italian, sourdough, rye – and the rest are daily-changing ‘specials’ – an asiago-flavoured wholegrain, or a salt bread, or a cinnamon-and-raisin tea-bread, or whatever. Sold all day, often still warm from the oven.

    I think they have to. There are two Panera outlets at opposite ends of town, plus a Meijer with an in-store bakery, another regional supermarket with an in-store bakery, a Costco with a large in-store bakery and several smaller bakery outlets that maybe specialize more in pies and patisserie. There’s also a large family-owned bakery right on main drag that sells all this sort of thing retail as well as supplying half the restaurants in town with bread. The other half buy their bread from Zingermans in A2.

    No bread issues around here, you could die of bread. Sorry to hear that your Krogers are still ctaching up.




  • This is certainly good news, Llamas. I think it was only 20 years ago – possibly less – when one had to literally go to great lengths to get some real bread in the Midwest.

  • Richard Thomas

    Kroger does have some reasonably decent breads but I still haven’t been able to find a decent crusty roll (or even a crappy crusty roll come to that). Surprisingly Walmart did have some decently crusty French bread for a short while but discontinued it. Possibly the other customers thought it was stale.

  • llamas

    @ Richard Thomas – well, Americans like their dinner rolls more floury.

    Our high street bakery makes a damned-fine crusty roll, but it’s too small – they make them as dinner rolls, to supply restaurants. You can’t make a decent cheese-and-pickle sarnie on one. I’ve asked why they don’t make ’em bigger, and that’s their answer – they make 25 dozen a day for their restaurant customers, why would they make two a week for me?



  • Julie near Chicago

    llamas, re “semi”: Indeed you did. :>) But as you describe your Kroger’s bakery, it sure beats any I encountered!

    We do have a nice Meijer’s in Naperville, but nothing in Rockford so far. The nicest thing about that Meijer’s, anyway, is that it has a (tiny) section of “restaurant-sized” packs. For awhile I could get Swiss Miss hot-chocolate mix and Tang at half what it would cost in a standard supermarket. (I realize that mere mention of these products proves me irremediably déclassé. *Sigh*…deal with it.)

    I have never visited Panera’s, by the way. But I make a very nice whole-wheat loaf, cheddar loaf, Finnish cardamom bread, so forth, myself, when in the mood. (Mostly courtesy of Bernard Clayton’s Complete Book of Breads.) And my son-in-law as an experiment made real French bread, complete with flash steaming and so on, that came out perfectly. Unfortunately The Kid now has a fairly serious wheat allergy. Dawg!!!

    I absolutely agree about the disgusting and disgraceful lack of proper crusty rolls and salt rolls. Also real bagels. Dang, I’m getting into a baking mood here, and it’s too warm to get the oven up!

    Alisa, further investigation suggests I may have overstated the case. It would seem, from the Wikipedia article on Schnuck’s and from the Ixquick search results on the string Schnuck’s Kroger (two words, no quotes) that there is considerable back-and-forth between the two. I also found no suggestion that all the Illinois Kroger’s stores are now Schnuck’s.

    Personally, I wish we could have back the old-fashioned A&P’s up with which I grew.

    And now, because of llamas’s proselytizing, I guess I’m going to have to hunt up the local Panera’s and check it out on the way back from grocery shopping at — Wally’s.

  • Yes Julie, I saw that entry in W – still, they did go places.

    Speaking of which, another MO connection: I remember St. Louis Bread Company before it was acquired by Panera. I am that old:-O

  • Julie near Chicago

    Indeed they did, Alisa.

    Did I know of Panera’s origins? Hm. I do remember driving past the S.L.B.C. on the way to work every day, though.

    You ancient old thing, you! ;>)