We are developing the social individualist meta-context for the future. From the very serious to the extremely frivolous... lets see what is on the mind of the Samizdata people.

Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]

Samizdata quote of the day

The deeper truth masked by all the ranting – and, it should be added, by the blinkers of many Western secularists – is that Christians are targeted in greater numbers than any other faith group on earth. About 200 million church members (10 per cent of the global total) face discrimination or persecution: it just isn’t fashionable to say so.

Rupert Shortt

10 comments to Samizdata quote of the day

  • CaptDMO

    Um… Happy Thanksgiving, and a Merry Christmas.
    I can say that here,(so far) just not in Public School or “work”place. (US)
    I’m STILL holding out that enslavement/slaughter of “white” folk, and women in general, will
    NOT be found worthy of a (usually mis”interpreted”) Freedom of religion/ Seperation between “Church” and State issue.

    I’ve got yer’ (ahem) “tolerance” ….right here!

  • 'Nuke' Gray

    Yes, but us Christians LIKE to be oppressed! this toughens us up so we can be morally stronger! And we’re following in the footsteps of Jewish history & early Christian history- the poison of statism and repression makes us stronger! Also, I bet that the underground churches in China are increasing because the authorities are so hard on them- it gets rid of any flab factor. the worst thing that happened to christianity was to align itself with state or government- because then it became a branch of Government

  • Gib

    I think the significance here isn’t that a lot of Christians are being oppressed, it’s that in Muslim countries, anyone who isn’t Muslim is being oppressed.

    The reason that the Jews aren’t top of the persecution list here is due to their small numbers and the fact they know they can’t go live in those countries anyway because they’ll be treated even worse than the Christians.

    But try being an atheist in those countries. I don’t think you’ll be treated much better than the Christians. Atheists also have the added bonus of being discriminated against in the USA, for public office particularly.

  • Paul Marks

    It is not just in Islamic counties – in the West also Christians are being worn down.

    It is not open persecution – hangings in the public square, it is the slow grinding down in the name of “anti discrimination” and “equal rights” and the general P.C. agenda.

    In the United States there is some hope – one thing that Romney does seem sincere about his commitment to end the government campaign against Christians (the effort to drive Christians from the public square – and to forbid, in the name of “equality”, Christians living their lives their own way).

    In Britain there is no hope at all (apart from a supernatural hope – if Christianity is actually TRUE) as the “Conservative” government is just as committed to the antiChristian “equality agenda” as the “Christian Socialists” Blair and Brown were.

    Such people (Blair, Brown, Cameron) believe that Christian beliefs are “bigotary” which are opposed to the fundemental doctrines of “womens rights” and “Gay rights”

    Endless abortions, “anti discrimination laws”, “progressive” education (and on and on) are the future in Britain.

    At least till the breakdown (bankruptcy – and not just economic bankruptcy) occurs.

    “But Christians dictated to other people in the past, they even murdered people, – so you are getting what you deserve now”.

    There is some truth in that.

    Christians in the past did use the state (including the hangman) to enforce our beliefs on others.

    So now the state is being used against us – the sins of past Christians (putting faith in government – rather than in God) are finding us out.

  • Julie near Chicago

    It is very easy to see this whole anti-Christian movement as a massive case of good old-fashioned bullying. On the part of various groups of people, who for whatever reason have taken to getting together to gang up on the victim (physically, or psychologically–by s****ing on his beliefs or worldview or whatever).

    There are all these nostrums that are suggested as helpful in stopping bullies, chiefly (1) reasoning with them and (2) making it clear that you intend to cause no trouble and will leave them alone if they leave you alone.

    Suggest review of the series of documentaries “Back to the Future,” especially the first two parts, for evidence as to how these strategies work out when actually applied.

    There are those who advocate instead the method of “a frank exchange of views.” I believe that that this treatment, although not entirely curative, often has long-term ameliorative effects–if applied with sufficient gusto.

    – – – –
    It does seem to me that a bully who’s been forced to back down often desists, for a time, but nurses a steaming sense of outrage at having “lost.” What has he lost? Power–and prestige…and the sense of being Alpha. To be Down is thus not to be Out–even amongst bullies.

    It also seems likely to me that as is so often the case in the Real World, the main factors in causing a given phenomenon (such as, say, the existence of the bully) may vary; as may the curative treatment.

    In other words, it’s not all that obvious that every bully is successfully dealt with over the long term by being bashed in the head with a 2×4. It’s true, the first order of business has to be to get them to stop stealing the first-graders’ lunch money and rearranging the faces of targeted older kids; but I would think that sometimes something more “nuanced” than being beaten silly themselves until they behave is both more humane and more effective, and can actually result, eventually, in a sociable human.

    In other words, it seems to me that sometimes rehabilitation is possible, and that where it is, there is some advantage to it. The difficulty is in not letting this position degenerate into a variant of strategies (1) and (2) above.

    Be that as it may, however, one absolutely MUST first stop the bully from killing one!

  • JohnB

    Persecution of Christians – I suppose a core issue is what is meant by a Christian.

    As Paul Marks touches on, is it someone for whom his relationship with his fellow man is in truth more important, or his relationship with the eternal reality – the kingdom of God?
    Is it lip service or a true knowledge?

    It is so easy to slip from having ones eyes on the eternal (which also pervades the here and now!) to seeing only the here and now.

    It is quite possible to live in the presence of God, which if truly seen, makes persecution irrelevant.
    Not that I would like to try that and I am extremely blessed to live in the West.

    The main thing is to live in the presence of God through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
    And let Him look after the rest.

  • Laird

    Comments such as JohnB’s are the reason Nietzsche called Christianity a slave religion.

  • JohnB

    Laird, your point of view is predicated on your belief that there is no God.

  • Paul Marks

    The smear of Nietzche was not even original – it was a piece of Roman Imperial propaganda.

    It takes the truth – that Christians regarded slaves (and women) as just as important God as anyone else, and twists this truth by declaring that Christians are all slaves (low, cowardly people).

    I accept this Imperial insult as a badge of honour.

    As for Nietzche – if he tried to use his whip to beat any slaves (or any ladies) in my presense, I would take that whip and shove it up his arse.

    If Fred N. (1844 – 1900) was really a “Superman” he could have stopped me doing that.

    But I do not think he could have done.

    As for freedom.

    Fred was a determinist – he did not even believe that freedom was logically possible.

    I would not take any lectures on freedom from Fred.

  • Laird

    JohnB, my beliefs matter not; it’s Nietzsche’s I was talking about.

    Paul, it is with great trepidation that I engage you in a debate about philosophy, but I think you seriously misunderstand Nietzsche’s point. He wasn’t advocating or justifying slavery, let along threatening to “beat” anyone. He was talking about the “morality” of submission, and I think his point is entirely valid.