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The Russian airforce says hi The next time the Russian airforce tries to test the UK air defences (which seem to be working fine), perhaps the boys in grey-blue should paint a big sign on the side of the Typhoon fighters saying this: “The way to Harvey Nichols’ jewellery department and Chelsea FC is that way, chaps”.
Seriously, what the expletives deleted does Putin think he is trying to prove, exactly? It is not as if one of those “Bear” aircraft are state-of-the-art. Ironically, there has been a lot of criticism about the expense of the Eurofighter project – justifiably – but at least the RAF have a superb fighter. Let us hope they do not have to remind the Russians of what an outstanding force the RAF still is.
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Wow, how can Putin think he can make us nervous, when we have real monsters to fight, like the Iranian Air Force.
They should just pop up a couple of flights for each Bear, surround the hell out of them, and start doing a little air show each time the Russians decide to get stupid.
Also, the Russian doesn’t have nearly as much training as the British pilots. Outside of US & Israel, no Air Force trains as hard as RAF.
Putin is putting a lot of money (gained from oil and other such) into improving his military forces (these Bear aircraft are not all they are going to have).
He is also endlessly working on his alliances – with the Peoples Republic of China, and with various trouble states (Latin American and Islamic).
Putin does not believe in Marxism, but he does believe in making as much trouble for the West as possible.
Putin wishes to further boost the nationalistic movement he has created (with paramilitary youth movement and so on) in order to keep himself or associates in power.
He is also just a BAD MAN (it is as simple as that) he does bad stuff, because he enjoys doing bad stuff – he gets a kick out of it.
This aircraft incident is nothing really. Certainly not with nationalizing natural resources (Hollywood please note, it is the FOES of private ownership of natural resources who are the enemies of both democracy and civil liberties), crushing critical media (both broacasting stations and newspapers), ending the election of State Governors (appointing them instead), making a farce out of the court systes, having lots of people he dislikes murdered (and so on and so on).
But all of the above can be seen to have a motive – power.
But Putin also does bad things just for the Hell of it. As he says his foes will be “done in on the bog”, he uses camp slang (as many ex K.G.B. people do) which evolved from the old Russian criminal cant (or special language if you wish to be nice about it).
I am rather vulgar myself. But I do not make a point of using the special language of the thieves – and many of the people Putin has had murdered were no real threat to him.
He did it because he likes doing stuff like this.
“I have looked into his soul and he is a good man” – George Walker Bush on Putin.
Pass the sick bag.
“but at least the RAF have a superb fighter. “
???
The RAF has blown its own and just every else’s budget on an aircraft that is now ~20 years out of date. This is not and never has been value for money: the performance is could have been bought off the shelf decades ago with just about any US fast jet.
Which would you rather have: the Eurofighter or the F22?
Ans which do you think is more likely to actually use their weapons against us? The posturing Mussolini-esque Putin or end-time-cult-wacko-with-a-nuclear-programme Ahmadinejad? I know which one make me more nervous.
So just how does Putin plan on funding his grand schemes? Russia is awash in cash because of it’s oil and natural gas, but basing your economy on just one revenue source is disastrously short sighted. If Putin follows the Dubai model Russia would be in a position of power for a very very long time. If, however, it follows the Saudi model (spend all your oil cash like a drunk sailor who just hit the lottery) then Russia will be just another 21st century paper tiger when the revenue dries up.
Strange and dangerous game that Vlad is playing. One that could cost many lives all for the benefit of a bunch of “leaders” that want to show off their toys and stroke their egos.
“It is not as if one of those “Bear” aircraft are state-of-the-art.”
Neither are the Eurofighters.
Neither is a B-52.
Indeed he does not. He is a fascist. Who was the last Leader who enjoyed being photographed bear chested doing manly stuff like draining marshes? Why, it was our old chum Benito Mussolini. Putin is without doubt, in his politics and personality, a fascist.
Incidentally, according to Radio 4 the Bears were intercepted by Tornados, presumably F3’s. Are any Typhoons actually in service, or are they just being used by the RAF’s PR wallahs to give rides to journalists?
The Russian pilots need to be provoked. Something along this line may help.(Link)
It will take a really long, long time before his revenues dry up.
Nice try. Go now to plan b.
Cleanthes- you are just wrong.
I lectured on fighter aerodynamics as long ago as 1983.
The Typhoon has a naturally efficient design which is enhanced by the FCS computers.
It could easily outfly the F15 or the F16, and has a thrust-to-weight ratio in excess of either.
The Canard induces positive trim forces, which increase drag efficiency on the main wing and in turns; the delta(low aspect ratio delta) is naturally more stable at very high angles of attack, much higher than other jets; while certain Russian and American thin-and-straight designs can and have transitioned through large a-of-a, the Typhoon’s delta planform with an unstallable all-moving Canard means that it can maintain full stability and control in such flight conditions, thus extending the range of the targeting systems and giving them time to lock guided munitions onto the target.
It has a certain degree of stealth(BAe is reputedly the only manufacturer outside the US to do stealth),not as much as the F22, but that costs twice as much per aircraft and has taken longer to develop.
The F22 could be better in some respects, but the tactical ability of the Raptor isn’t necessarily supposed to be in dogfights; it is supposed to use Supercruise and fast targeting to ‘bounce’ enemy formations before they know what’s happening.
The Typhoon is undoubtedly a superb fighter, and is more than equal to the Russians
Pietr,
That may be so but… it’s got no guns! Surely in modern air combat most of the missile payload will by BVR weapons, the dogfighting left to the gun(s), which the Typhoon doesn’t have! All the speed and maneuverability in the world won’t do much good if they’ve got nothing to shoot with…
One theory is that boys just want to have fun. A more likely explanation is that the resumed Russian deep patrols are a probe — not of Euro military but of Euro public response. After all, if Russia wants to drop a nuke on Jolly Old England, the last platform they will use is a subsonic bomber 12 miles off the coast of Scotland. These guys have ICBMs and supersonic cruise missiles, for goodness sake!
What is probably being tested here is the European public & political response. EU public opinion could respond forcefully to a perceived threat — but it is much more likely that eyes will be vigorously averted, or that the Conservative Party will announce plans to abandon the UK’s nuclear deterrent to stop Britain’s continued provocation of the Russians.
That is the answer.
What is the use of having planes rust on the ground and pilots idling ? It’s fun flying, that’s what you have an air force for, that’s what planes do, pilots get training and a sense of purpose. It’s like proclaiming: “we’re alive and kicking”. And it succeeded too – it was heard and noted, inside and outside of Russia.
A smart move by Putin, that does not necessarily indicate some sinister ulterior motive. It’s just an exercise in enhancing national pride.
By the way – when does Britain send some bombers for a return visit in the vicinity of Murmansk ?
Britain has bombers?
Seriously, this is where Euro-disdain for reality may finally start to approach the edge of the cliff. Is Supremo Brown prepared to take the chance that Russia might close down some gas export pipelines — purely precautionary, you understand — because of foreign military aircraft approaching its air space? And once those gas lines to Europe are shut down, it might take the Russians weeks (weeks & weeks!) to restart them, because of aging equipment & week-ends off & sick days & things like that.
Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs Europe. And still the Germans are talking about accelerating the shut-down of their nuclear power plants. (Which would mean becoming even more reliant on Russian natural gas. Whoops!)
It is a good thing that the whole world just loves the EU, and that war has permanently been banished from the European firmament (well, except for those unfortunate events in the former Yugoslavia — but that is not really Europe anyway). Otherwise, people in Europe might have to start partying like it’s 1938.
He’s trying to prove that he really is taller than George Bush, no matter how those lying photographs look.
Simon: The Eurofighter has always had a 27mm Mauser BK27 cannon.
Six years ago the RAF wanted to remove the cannon. Then they decided that they would retain, but it would not be activated.
Now According to Jane’s Defence Weekly, the RAF have decided to activate the cannon for the Typhoon deployment to Afghanistan this summer.
According to our glorious free press the Tornado didn’t have radar either.(Better cancel the lot then, right?)
Yes it did have radar. Do you mean the Air Defence Variant Tornado F2. that did have a short time without a radar system, upon the initial failure of the early Marconi/Ferranti AI.24 Foxhunter system – hence the famous ‘Blue Fox’ radar jokes about the F2 having a bag of cement in its nosecone? Only about 18 fighters were ever made, the model being quickly superceded by the F3 as I recall.
That would be the infamous “Blue circle” radar named after Blue Circle cement. Blue Fox/Vixen are proper radars.
You are all wrong. The flights have nothing to do with anything except internal Russian politics.
Opinion polls show that when Russians are asked what Putin has actually done that they approve of, rather than just whether they approve of him, the only thing they can think of is ‘restore respect for Russia in the world’.
Respect for Russia means fear of Russia. I have heard commentators saying on Russia many times ‘they fear us that means they respect us.’
Since no one actually respects Russia and they are not capable of really doing anything like getting Berezovsky back and putting him on trial, ensuring Kosovo remains part of Serbia, getting their candidate into the IMF, they go in for saber rattling.
Western newspaper reaction is then read out on the morning news, the more ill-informed, hysterical and russophobic the better – Putin has his result, ‘they’ are afraid, ‘they’ respect us.
The election in a couple of months may be a foregone conclusion, but for the sake of managed democracy, social cohesion, etc. it needs to be given the appearance of legitimacy. I.e. if United Russia sweeps the board on a 20% turnout the election will be a failure. So there will be lots of efforts to boost the popularity of the government and get turnout as high as possible.
Perhaps, in retaliation, Britain could send the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight (1 spitfire, 1 hurricane and 1 lancaster if my memory serves) over Russia. The military significance would be about the same.
Yes Alice, the German government judgment to shut down nuclear power stations is mistaken.
Europe did seem to be going for a fast breeder program a couple of decades ago (which would mean that even furture shortages of uranium would not be a problem), but there was the big nuclear accident in Soviet occupied Ukraine and Europeans went craven.
The fact that the Soviet reactor was of a quite different design and had actually had its safety systems turned off (as part of an experiment) escaped them.
To put faith in the “wind farm” fraud is not sensible.
In the long run nuclear fusion (not fisson) is the way. But scientists have failed for fifty years to produce proper fusion stations.
So we must go with what we have. Fission stations – and, in the long run, (if the scientists continue not to produce fusion stations) fast breeder ones also.
Even hydrogen fuel cells depend on electricity to “crack” the sea water for hydrogen in the first place. And that means a need for fission stations.
If the “greens” do not like it they can lump it.
And as for “the public”, they will come round if it is explained to them that the alternative is the break down of modern civilization and mass starvation.
Mrs Thatcher thought that talking about the threat of C02 emissions would win people round (the lady was the first politician to bring up the “C02 emissions cause globel warming” stuff), but the greens were allowed to take that over – hence “wind farms” and other frauds.
Of course Europeans can not depend on the export of raw materials as Russia does (not just oil and gas, all sorts of things – Russia is the “treasure house of nations”). They must produce goods and services (for domestic connumption and export) to survive.
And to do this Europeans must have economical electricity.
They should try to come up with a method of annoying the Russians without downing their planes. Paintballs? Smoke generators? Noxious substances?
“… the German government judgment to shut down nuclear power stations is mistaken. …. To put faith in the “wind farm” fraud is not sensible.”
So true. One of the many peculiarities of today’s world is that fossil-fuel exporter Russia is also cranking up its nuclear power industry. Probably the same argument as Iran has used — supply the domestic market with nuclear-sourced electricity, and sell all the gas & oil on the international market.
Straight line extrapolation of current trends is that Russia will have both nuclear power & fossil fuels, while Germany will have tax-subsidized solar panels and windmills (when the sun shines & the wind blows). Who will be paying the taxes in Germany is another question — the long-suffering public in one way or another.
Germany’s posture is based on politically-correct liberal stupidity. But what is Russia’s based on? It may be, as jb suggests, that it is all internal Russian politics. But even internal Russian politics could have a big impact on the world outside Russia.
Churchill had a good solution.
When the Canberra was still able to fly too high for the Migs, he suggested overflights dropping leaflets in Russian, which would say”These could be bombs”.
I see Starbucks finally managed to open an outlet in Moscow. The hold up caused by a trademark dispute rather than state fuelled anti-western sentiment. Not news in itself but this may help show people inside and outside of Russia just how pathetic the recent Russian posturing really is. It reminds me of two things. Governments need to and like to put on shows of hostility towards other countries (Iran & Israel continuing business dealings springs to mind), and there will always be an element within any population who’ll always buy into these shows.
The next time they send up an intercept flight, why not put a chess move on the wings?
Soon enough, we won’t bother intercepting them with fighters containing actual pilots. It’ll all be done with remote control drones. Of course, the control of these is a bit touchy.
Oops! Vladimir! Sorry about that little airborne bump. Hope your pilots didn’t suffer long.
Blasphemy! The Typhoid is the best fighter there is! Why it has an unstable delta canard configuration and a mechanically steered array radar that is very long range! and the best pilot interface ever!
But scientists have failed for fifty years to produce proper fusion stations.
Paul,
Off topic I know, but the subject has been raised. Are you, or anyone else, able to comment on the following? Given the association with space flight, Dale maybe?
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2007/03/mr-fusion.html(Link)
http://www.emc2fusion.org/(Link)
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2007/08/bussard-reactor-funded.html
Counting Cats.
No I have no technical training.
Indeed if I was not a libertarian I might well be like a certain Austrian who served as a lance corporal in the Bavarian army (under Imperial German command, it being war time).
You know – shouting at the men and women of science
I want this and I want it NOW, stop giving me your “laws of physics” excuses.
Russia’s behaviour is extremely silly. However, on a different note, as far as the “superiority of aircraft” is concerned, Russian Su-27s etc are pretty formidable.
If Putin follows the Dubai model Russia would be in a position of power for a very very long time. If, however, it follows the Saudi model (spend all your oil cash like a drunk sailor who just hit the lottery) then Russia will be just another 21st century paper tiger when the revenue dries up.
Rich, someone (it may even have been you) has already made this point.
Russia is the “Treasure House of Nations” it has vastly greater natural resourses (not just oil) than any other nation on Earth.
Waiting for the Putin’s supply of natural resourses to be used up is not a sensible line.
Rich Paul (as opposed to Rich) made a point about the Iranian Air Force
The Iranians still have some old American aircraft – but most of their aircraft come from Putin.
So making a distinction between the Iranian and Soviet (sorry Russian) Air Force is a mistake.
They have the same aircraft and the same objective – make trouble for the West in general and the United States (as like-it-or-not the leading nation of the West) in particular.
Most of the Iranian AF is still very old American and French junk. Those stories about Iran buying 100s of a/c from Russia are disinformation by US/UK to make their real sales to that bastion of democracy and Israel’s bestest friend, Saudi Arabia.