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Is there anything more damning than being praised by a French politician? Tony Blair showed just how courageous he is… he chose to face up to an internal battle based on one idea – the European Union – rather than just doing his job as just Britain’s prime minister.
– Jacques Chirac
Pity Samizdata.net does not have a catagory for articles called “Treason & Betrayal”.
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“Well done,thou good and faithful servant”.
Can we dock Balony’s wages now?
Jacques Chirac has absolute contempt for Tony Bliar. He thinks he’s a fool. Always did. Just like, well, Gerry Adams does. Doesn’t the IRA refer to Toneee as the “naive idiot”? I’d love to read what Donald Rumsfeld really thinks of him.
“rather than just doing his job as just Britain’s prime minister”
Remove the two instances of the word “just” from that, and you get what Mr Chirac should be saying.
On another note, have you seen how many people commenting on the BBC’s website seem to agree with us rather than him?
http://tinyurl.com/79r6c
So the French government believes Blair did this with the best interests of the EU in mind. Section III.6 of the Code of Conduct for Members of Parliament states:
And let’s not forget Blair’s statement to Parliament on 8th June 2005:
That Blair is a liar is nothing new to anyone here but in relation to the rebate he is clearly guilty of at least misleading Parliament. For what it’s worth my complaint is in the post to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. If I don’t post for a while I’ll have been taken out and re-educated.
Perry asks:
Is there anything more damning than being praised by a French politician?
Chirac would answer, ‘no’ – which is why he made his statement. He also made others, claiming that the compromise deal was a joint Franco-German effort when it was clearly nothing of the sort. These are the ramblings of a man who knows his vision of the EU is disappearing. Blair should return the compliment by praising Chirac for agreeing to discuss farm subsidies in a couple of years’ time. The French will retain their veto then — but there will be a big discussion about the CAP and this time, the British rebate can’t be used to divert attention from it. The pressure will be on the French and it’s unlikely they’ll be able to stall indefinitely (and Sarko will probably be president by then).
In other words, not an ideal situation by any means, but not the complete disaster some people are making it out to be. In other words, your typical negotiated settlement.
We have been rolled by the French – ouch, this hurts!
Chirac must be pleased. His ratings should skyrocket, by 100% – from 1 to 2 %.
Blair, you fool.
We have been rolled by the French – ouch, this hurts!
Chirac must be pleased. His ratings should skyrocket, from 1 to 2 %.
Blair, you fool.
We have been rolled by the French – ouch, this hurts!
My grandfather was a business tycoon. One of the things he told me was simple – ”if you give money to people, never expect it to be repaid. Expect them to hate you even more’.
Chirac must be pleased. His ratings should skyrocket, from 1 to 2 %.
Blair, you fool.
Tomahawk, you must have been reading different news from the rest of us.
What’s been agreed is that Britain will surrender SOME of the rebate in exchange for discussions that MAY take place the year after next, and over which France WILL retain a veto.
Why on earth do you think the remaining rebate will not be up for discussion then? You think perhaps the French will cave in next time? Do you know of any precedents?
Yes it IS your typical negotiated settlement – Tony Blair style: The French get some of what they want this time, in exchange for the French getting more of what they want next time. Blair calls this a good outcome. Practically nobody, apart from you, agrees.
Tomahawk, you must have been reading different news from the rest of us.
No, just interpreting it differently. Even when countries retain vetoes, they may be politically constrained from using them, as Britain was this time round. It’ll be very difficult for the French simply to stonewall any discussion of CAP reform if they’re interested in retaining their leadership role in the EU. Enlargement has changed the entire dynamics of the Union and it cannot be run as it was in the old days. Broader alliances are necessary, and as has become blindingly obvious since the Iraq War, the new EU members are not inclined to see the EU simply as a way of projecting French dominance. It’s simply not viable to insist on no change to the CAP. Britain will have more allies because now, the accession countries won’t be diverted on to the issue of their finances in the budget, which has now been settled.
It is possible to look at this in a positive way, that TB has gained himself (or perhaps the UK) the moral high ground by giving up a sizable chunk of cash to further the expansion.
Alternatively that he is trying to buy the support of the new joiners!
Tomahawk
Try thinking. This has nothing to do with the CAP. Forget about it.
You’re assuming that Blair is on our side and needed to do a deal while giving away as little as possible. The reality is that Blair is a good little European who is very much on the side of the Eurofanatics. His opposition in all of this is the British taxpayer. The test for Blair was to give away as much of the rebate as possible. He would have given it up completely if he could have got away with it.
He is NOT on our side. He is batting for the EU against British interests as much as Chiraq is.
Capisce?
Tomahawk writes:
“It’ll be very difficult for the French simply to stonewall any discussion of CAP reform if they’re interested in retaining their leadership role in the EU.”
Horsefeathers! The French have operated a policy of strict self-interest for decades with no obvious detriment to their position as the dominant partner in the EU.
Bliar has given away a vast sum of British money today, predicated on the theory that, in a few years time, pressure from new members will force the French to review its massive CAP benefits.
He’d have been better sticking the six billion on a horse.
The French have operated a policy of strict self-interest for decades with no obvious detriment to their position as the dominant partner in the EU.
Indeed they have – but that was in the days when there was a Community of 6, then 9, then 10, then 12. The strategy was already starting to fray in a Union of 15. It’ll be impossible in a Union of 25, as we’ve already seen – the fact that people are even talking about serious CAP reform indicates that things have changed dramatically. Neither can the French continue to count on the unflinching support of Germany – the latter’s role was very interesting in these latest discussions, acting more as a broker. Merkel is different from Schroeder.
Pete_London
The reality is that Blair is a good little European who is very much on the side of the Eurofanatics.
He used to be, big time, and he’s still not anti-European, but Blairites adopted a much more critical view of the EU, and esepcially the French, in the light of the Iraq War. Blair is no Euro-federalist, but he does want Britain to play a leadership role in the Union, not lesat because leadership of the East European bloc is ours for a song – especially now that the budget has been sorted out. The budget was not perfect – these things never are – but it was unrealistic to expect a big change on the CAP now, since the other countries saw no immediate pressing need (whereas they did see such a need re the budget). But the next discussion of the CAP, with Chirac safely consigned to the knacker’s yard, could be very different.
GCooper – “He’d have been better sticking the six billion on a horse.”
Oh. Is Margaret Beckworth running?
trmcdugle – “Alternatively that he is trying to buy the support of the new joiners!”
Yes. The ridiculous [unelected] “president” of the EU will be chosen by a vote of all the countries. Bliar needs the newcomers.
Tomahawk writes:
“…could be very different.”
COULD . Your entire argument is predicated on a theoretical supposition.
Not much of a basis for giving Chirac a £6 billion bung, is it?
GCooper
You’re right – I should have said “WILL be very different”.
And Chirac hasn’t been given a £6bn bung – most of it will go to the East Europeans.
The Euro-moonbats are a bunch of Chicken Lickens, who think the sky is always about to fall on our heads… except, it never does.
Tomahawk –
Please, look beyond headlines and beyond what politicians say. If the Blairistas (which is a rapidly diminishing group) are critical of the EU then why is it full steam ahead on the Euro Rapid Surrender Force, not to mention full steam ahead on the EU constitution. It is not signed but it is still being implemented.
What planet are you on? Earth calling Tomahawk, check the lead content of the water in your area. Blair would have had us using euros years ago if he could have got away with it. He would sign the EU constitution and have us governed wholly from Brussels if he could get away with it.
For the umpteenth time on here, the EU doesn’t allow partly-in, partly-out membership. We cannot pick and choose what we want from a menu. The EU project is the creation of one country called Europe. We either become the north west province of that country or we leave the EU and remain an independent nation. Blair is intent on making us that north west province. We nay-sayers are the enemy of his ambitions.
There is no secret to this. It’s only in this country that the eurofanatics hide their ambitions. Have a look here and see for yourself. When you finally understand what the EU is about you’ll see that the things you mention –
is nothing but a piss in the wind. So what if we keep in with Eastern European members? So what if the CAP is reformed? These are piddling, inconsequential matters which distract attention from the only thing that matters – that unless we leave the EU we will be suckered into the single state of Europe.
A link to the Bruges Group, aka Moonbat Central! Comedy Gold!
It’s true that Blair wanted to join the Euro but Brown vetoed it, and there’s no appetite for it now. The EU constituiton is dead. Kaput!
You are extremely ill-informed about the government’s thinking on Europe. Iraq changed everything. I say this as a Blairite myself (and one who speaks frequently with other Blairites) – we all changed our minds to greater or lesser degrees when Chirac sought to pressgang the entire EU into opposing the war. (Most agreed with Gisela Stuart on the constitution.) We all became more Eurosceptic, but not to the point of withdrawing completely. Britain achieved a long-standing foreign-policy goal with the accession to the EU of the East Europeans. The old days of the Franco-German motor propelling Europe into a federal state are gone – it’s just that some Euro-federalists and Euro-phobes don’t realise it. The EU of 25 (soon to be 27) is becoming what the federalists always feared it might after enlargement: an arena in which nation-states bargain and argue and pursue their national interests. Sounds good to me; a lot better than cutting ourselves off and yelling insanely from the touchline.
Tomahawk writes:
“The Euro-moonbats are a bunch of Chicken Lickens, who think the sky is always about to fall on our heads… except, it never does.”
I’d call £6 billion quite a chunk of sky, actually.
What with that and the surrender of our armed forces, ammunition manufacturing capability, increasing slices of foreign policy, control over our own laws and on and on as the juggernaut rolls.
Looks to me like you Europhiles are the very definition of that fine old saying: none so blind…
So the truth finally reveals itself. Tomahawk’s a Blairista (you want to leave that sinking ship, sunshine) and leaving the EU amounts to “cutting ourselves off and yelling insanely from the touchline.” Like Switzerland, the US, China and Singapore are cut off and yelling insanely from the EU touchline. You could’ve saved us all some hassle if you’d announced up front that you’re a Euro-weenie, instead of being a typical Blairite girlie-man and not being honest from the start.
I notice that where I provide a link to actual quotes from real, actual people in touch with the EU, you provide supposition built on stupidity and conceit. As if the EU gives a damn which way the British goverment swings. If you can provide some evidence to back up your claims then lay it out, otherwise, stop pissing about.
Tomahawk, if you think giving away such a a vast sum of money is going to buy Britain any influence, you are living on another planet, and shouting abuse at us “Little Englanders” is not much use, either. It is the same old argument that has been used by the Eurofanatics from day one: if we surrender a few tangible assets like our fishing stocks/money/whatever then we will gain this magical “influence” at the “top tables”, blah-blah. Well, the sacrifices are made and yet nothing much seems to change apart from the names of the senior actors and their camp-followers.
We have to leave.
How exactly was I ‘not being honest from the start’? I gave you my opinions on the subject at hand; I wasn’t aware that I had first to make an ideological declaration so as not to frighten the batshit-crazy Europhobes on this thread! In fact, I didn’t even have to tell you I am a Blairite when I did – but I did so, nonetheless. As for being a “Euro-weenie, well, I’ve already said that I’m a lot more critical of the EU these days. But of course, that’s never enough for those who demand nothing less than full repetence and Shia-style self-flagellation to atone for previous sins…
As for your “actual quotes” from “real people” on the EU. I notice that every single quote on the constitution comes from BEFORE it was shot down in flames in May! You’re like one of those Japanese soldiers marooned on some Pacific island and still fighting WWII 30 years after it had ended! RFLOL!
Why don’t you stop pissing about?
JP
We have to leave.
Yeah, right at the precise moment in history that the Franco-German motor has spluttered to a halt and the EU’s ranks have been swelled by a host of countries that agree with Britain’s neo-liberal vision of the Union and its Atlanticism.
You guys are not very good at seeing the Big Picture, are you?
Moreover, now who’s being dishonest? All this rubbish about how we have defend our rebate, not give in to the French, etc. You don’t give a toss about any of that: you just want out of the EU, period. For you guys no deal can ever be a good deal.
Dear Girlie-man with the macho monicker – all you rabid dogs who love the surrender of sovereignty run around barking and scattering slavver – probably because you abhor the vacuum that is between your ears. But you can’t learn anything while you’re barking. Listen up!
Angela Merkel has announced she is coming up with a cunning plan to revivify the “constitution”. If you read and listened instead of running around barking and yelping tryhing to drown out everyone else, you would know that nothing is ever “dead” in the EU. It just undergoes plastic surgery and gets re-presented to the voters, who finally give up and stop voting and the latest socialist moonbat atrocity gets in by default.
Tomahawk,
At least you didn’t say (yet) we’d all be at war with each other but for the EU.
Like John East, I think this entire traitorous act has been the buying of the Presidency of the EU on behalf of His Holiness T. Blair, who’s desperately scratching around for something to do after the Labour Party throw him out. It’s a bit pricey, at £8 billion, but what the hell, it’s only other people’s money. But is there a second part to the deal?
Chirac gets re-elected, thus securing his further immunity from prosecution for embezzling the French nation. Chirac then gets Blair the EU Presidency. Once Blair is in, he then secures the way for Chirac to get the Presidency after him; Blair also makes sure that an EU law is passed making all EU Presidents, sine die, exempt from all laws on embezzlement.
Chirac is then covered for all the cash he has looted from the French taxpayers, for decades. Blair is also covered for the £8 billion he’s just stolen, when this deal eventually becomes public.
I think the land of Rousseau and Robespierre is not all bad though; they did innovate some interesting ways to treat bad rulers. Maybe we should drag this tyrant out of the Palace of Westminster by his feet, and guillotine the treacherous wretch? No death’s too good for him. We should tie him to a chair for the rest of his life and make him listen to endless re-runs of John Prescott interviews from the Today program.
Dear Butch-girl with the frilly name, I know it’ll soon be the shortest day of the year but haven’t you moonbats come out a little too early? That sensible chap, Cameron, seem like an attractive leader – I’m just worried about some of his loopier followers! (It’s amusing to be called a slavvering, rabid dog by a bunch of strays from Battersea Dogs Home…)
Let’s abandon the EU, just as we’re starting to exert some influence after all these years! We don’t want influence! Let us return to our genteel national decline! Parochial and ineffectual “sovereignty” is better than transnational power! These Blairistas, they’re all communists I tell you, communists!
At least you didn’t say (yet) we’d all be at war with each other but for the EU.
Because I don’t believe it. That’s the problem with you guys – you understand only caricatures and stereotypes, but when someone doesn’t fit into them, you’re all at sea.
I pretty much go along with Robert Cooper’s argument in “The Breaking of Nations”.
Dear Tomahawk, who I am willing to bet does not have one drop of Native American blood in his veins, why would we want influence in moribund Europe? Why is it taken as a given that we would wish to cleave to yet one more communist failure? The Berlin Wall came down, the USSR collapsed, and they quickly built another one, closer to home. Communists are stuck on stupid.
The world is galloping ahead. We look at the vigour of China and Southeast Asia. The bracing energy of India. Only sclerotic Europe is shuffling around on zimmers quibbling about minutiae while it is helped up to the table and poured another glass of chilled Sancerre. It is foetid. It smells of loser. Old. Spent. Who in their right mind would want to have “influence” in this pathetic, decaying, outdated club?
BTW, Native American Blairite, Tony’s nickname at Fettes was Emily. Boys can be amazingly perceptive, don’t you agree?
“but there will be a big discussion about the CAP and this time, the British rebate can’t be used to divert attention from it”
This is like saying at least the burglars can concentrate on the art works since they won’t be distracted by the money they stole last time.
The troll from Harry’s place really has to be a dedicated fan of Tony Beanstalk after his master has blown £8.2 billion on a bag of magic beans.
“Let’s abandon the EU, just as we’re starting to exert some influence after all these years! ”
Getting mugged for £8.2 billion is influnce.with influence like that who needs marginalising?
Tomahawk trollboy says: “That’s the problem with you guys – you understand only caricatures and stereotypes, but when someone doesn’t fit into them, you’re all at sea.”
Oh, you mean like calling anyone who is anti the EU a “Little Englander”? A xenophobe? (Despite the fact that many Brits who live in Europe and speak the language of their adopted country are the strongest voices against the EU.) And calling anyone who has strong reservations about allowing any more Muslims into Britain “a racist”? In the lefty lexicon of moonbattery, Islam is a race. Calling anyone who doesn’t think municipal loos were built to accommodate gay sex “a homophobe”?
Are these the stereotypes to which you refer?
“Tony Blair showed just how courageous he is”.
Chirac has demonstrated yet again why he is known as Supermenteur (ie Superliar).
If Bliar had pulled this stunt in a country that didn’t have the world’s most repressive “gun-control” laws, then that would have been courageous. Positively foolhardy.
Verity – there’s actually some truth in your sketch of the EU – but the point is to reform it, which we can with our East European allies. As for your reflections on my pseudonym, the dictionary definition of the word is no more a truthful description of me than yours is of you.
The troll from Harry’s place
Er, a troll is someone who maliciously disrupts a thread. I’ve simply been putting arguments to you that you disagree with – I didn’t become offensive to anyone until they became offensive to me.
I decided to check out Samizdata because it had a cool name, looked well designed, had a growing reputation and has an interesting self-description on its home page. As I said earlier, I’m a Blairite but one who’s starting to think about Blairism without Blair. I’m not enamoured with the Dour Scotsman at No 11 and this nice Mr Cameron looks a sensible chap – says all the right things on public-sector reform, etc. In other words, I could easily be a swing voter, the sort of person DC needs to win to get into govt.
Unfortunately, the Samizdata threads seem to be Moonbat Central, full of loons who remind me why I hated the Tories in the first place. (Gordon! No, I wasn’t looking wistfully at David – it was always you, Gordon! I promise! You’re the one! Really, I LOVE central-government targets for public-service providers!)
So, yes, I am a Harry’s Placer, and Ron, if you’ve seen my comments there, you’ll know that I take a lot of stick from the Chavez-cheerleaders and assorted hard-Left Stopper trolls, who have me down as a neocon warmonger. The fact that the hard-Right Loony Tunes at Samizdata think I’m a communist suggests I’ve got the balance about right! Now, how did that song go? “Clowns to the Left of me, jokers to the Right, here I am stuck in the middle with Tone!”
Verity, are you on crack?
Are these the stereotypes to which you refer?
Well, I used precisely NONE of those descriptions above. (Readers of HP can confirm that I certainly don’t believe Islam is a religion.)
And what did you do before setting up this straw man and accusing me of these caricatured, stereotypical and non-existent crimes? Why, you quoted me saying: “That’s the problem with you guys – you understand only caricatures and stereotypes, but when someone doesn’t fit into them, you’re all at sea.” Well said, Tomahawk! A bit of free advice, Verity: next time someone sets an elephant trap for you, try not to dive into it head first! RFLOL!
Someone with the monicker Archonix over on Biased BBC, has coined a new phrase for the Cameron-led Tory party and I hope it catches on. BluLabour. Quite good.
Whoops! I certainly don’t believe Islam is a religion Should be race! Sorry!
BTW Verity, I notice on another thread you describe David Cameron as “centre left”. So, what counts as centre-right in your opinion and what is right-wing and what is far right? You see, lots of Old Labour types are always telling me I’m right-wing, but now I learn I’m a communist!
Tomahawk
You’re clearly far too young and far too credulous to discuss the EU and our membership of it in a sensible way. You sound about half the age of Blair back when he campaigned for Britain’s exit from the then EEC. That’s right sunshine, your hero wanted us on those dreaded sidelines.
Do yourself a favour and check out the left wing argument for our exit. Tony Benn always put forward compelling arguments. You seem to believe that the pro/anti-EU argument mirrors the old left/right split. It ain’t so.
Finally, do yourself a great big favour and stop calling people you don’t know moonbats for disagreeing with you. Especially when you admit to coming here because of the ‘cool name’.
Tomahawk boy – You accused the right of centre of thinking only in stereotypes. I ran off a few lefty moonbat stereotypes for your consideration, all of them endorsed by the BBC.
Your only response has been more silly insults and the extraordinary statement: (Readers of HP can confirm that I certainly don’t believe Islam is a religion.) I assume you are one of the growing number of people who describe Islam as a cult, then?
Pete
I’m not too young but clearly, I’m not a geriatric veteran of the Boer War like you, either. You’re right that Europe is not a simple left-right issue, although it has increasingly taken on that appearance in recent years (incidentally, it tends to be the Left that’s more Eurosceptic on the continent). As for Tony B – Benn, not Blair! – we on the sensible wing of the Labour Party stopped listening to that loon long ago – and ever since we did, we started winning elections. Ever since the Tories started listening to people like you, they started losing elections. Long may it continue! As for abuse, I started off politely; you only need to check up thread to see who started the name-calling – I’m looking at…
… Verity
Your point about my slip on Islam might have been funnier still had you noticed it before I corrected it myself! Do youeven need me to point out my little slips to you?! Oh well, every blog has a resident Village Idiot, and I guess you’re the Queen of the Chumps at Samizdata!
I came here looking to engage in debate about the future, but now go home to Harry’s Place secure in the knowledge that I must send a big donation to the Labour Party, because despite Gordon’s many faults and Cameron’s great charm, how can we be sure that DC won’t keep the Euro-loons under control when he’s in govt? We can’t. Sorry David – another swing voter has just returned to NuLab.
Good night, moonbats!
A little bit of horseplay and Tomahawk has changed from being a possible swing to the Tories back to being a Labour voter? He interacted with what…three people and he has changed his allegiance… again. Much like his pin-up then.
And quite what Samizdata’s connection to the David Cameron and/or the Conservative Party is supposed to be I have no idea.
Tomahawk boy – Verity –
Your point about my slip on Islam might have been funnier still had you noticed it before I corrected it myself! Do youeven need me to point out my little slips to you?!
I did notice your “slip”, which I would term a glaring mistake, before you pointed it out. It jumped off the screen at me. But this is a blog. You, Pete_London and I all posted at the same time, you a split second before Pete, Pete a split second before me. Therefore, your post correcting yourself was not up before I clicked on Post.
You certainly are a very limited and insulting person with a weird sense of how important you are. David Cameron and BluLabour are going to lose your vote! Cry me a river.
Pete_London – How was it in the Boer War, by the way? I hear Mafeking’s been relieved, but that might just be a rumour.
I think the moonbat is the one who talks about ‘reform of the EU’, which is worth approximately two quick belly laughs.
The only time there was any ‘reform’ was when Margaret Thatcher wanted our money back. And for that reform, ie a band aid on the grossly unfair EU budgetary system, she was excoriated.
And a country can use its veto so long as it has the balls. France has used its veto and damn the consequences at the UN. I wish our own government would be half as ruthless as the French at defending our national interest.
Can you see the SAS blowing up some Greenpeace activists? I think not. The French government are bastards but they have my grudging respect nevertheless. At least they got gumption.
” a troll is someone who maliciously disrupts a thread. I’ve simply been putting arguments to you that you disagree with – I didn’t become offensive to anyone until they became offensive to me.”
You Sir are a liar,typical of the slithering left.
“The Euro-moonbats are a bunch of Chicken Lickens, who think the sky is always about to fall on our heads… except, it never does.”
Posted by Tomahawk at December 19, 2005 02:38 PM
A Blairite to the core,well you have hitched your wagon to the wrong star.Still no principles,no ideas probably suits you
BTW This is a libertarian site,hence the dislike of the extremely dirigiste European Union.
WAFI !
Tomahawk writes:
“….the point is to reform it….”
And there we have the central core of Tomahawk’s error. He believes that a statist organisation, designed to impose ever-bigger government and control without representation, can change its essential nature.
Tomahawk: a reformed pig is still a pig.
I second Mark Holland’s comment: And quite what Samizdata’s connection to the David Cameron and/or the Conservative Party is supposed to be I have no idea. I don’t either. I don’t even know what David Cameron’s connection to the Conservative Party is.
But as Ron Brick points out, this is a libertarian site.
Tomahawk probably fondly imagines that Blair has achieved a Palmerstonian feat of statecraft. The sad thing is, the poor boy probably is sincere about it.
GCooper,
As the saying goes “One cannot polish a Turd”.
Just thought I’d pop back to see how you loons are getting on. This is a jolly little hate-fest, isn’t it?
Verity – FFS! You, Pete and I posted at the same time, within “split seconds” of each other? My post was at 6.55, my correction at 7.01 and your post was at…. 7.22! Are you spacing out, girl?! BTW – when are you going to say something original, instead of seconding and repeating others’ comments? Or is that your function here, to serve as an echo chamber? (One in which the quips are less witty and less interesting with each iteration.)
Ron Prick – I’m not a liar, I just got my threads mixed up. I was posting on the “Quote of the day” thread from yesterday, with Verity starting the bun fight at about 2.40am today. Like I said, where others led I followed.
Mark
And quite what Samizdata’s connection to the David Cameron and/or the Conservative Party is supposed to be I have no idea.
Why not ask your fellow commenters – they’re obsessed with both.
The problem with you people is that you spend all your time reinforcing each other’s narrow, extremist opinions without realising how far from the moderate centreground you are. Fortunately, nice Dr Cameron does and I’m hoping that he will administer the medicine accordingly — but I’m not convinced it’ll have the desired effect.
Now, come along, moonbats – you’d better switch off the computers and hurry back to your cells because Nurse Ratchett will be checking in on you shortly — and you’ve still got to get back into your straightjackets…
Ciao!
Verity
It wouldn’t occur to our friend Wigwam that to be likened to a geriatric veteran of the Boer War is seen as high praise by a grouch like me and about as reassuring as you can get. Anything else from the likes of him would be deeply worrying.
Tomahawk – When I posted my correction, your admission that you had carelessly erred when saying you don’t regard Islam as a religion was not up. I don’t give a flea fart what the times posted are. New comments don’t actually appear on one’s screen while one is writing one’s own post. When I scrolled down after posting, there was a new post from you, in which you admitted your ridiculous mistake, a new post from Pete_London, and my new post.
You can (wrongly) classify me as a Conservative if you like, as indeed you are even more disconnected from reality than Mama Moonbat Cindy Sheehan – and that is as batshit crazy as you can get. But don’t accuse me of lying, you puerile little sack of iguana droppings.
You are a viperous and ignorant little person, like your hero, and ZaNu-Lab is your natural habitat. Most people posting on Samizdata don’t automatically sling insults at people who disagree with us. We usually try to engage them. But then, we seem to have a better command of history, facts, the English language and our own tempers than do you.
Oh, and there is a fatwah on gratuitous personal insults imposed by the owner of this blog. Your name may have gone on a little list.
Most people posting on Samizdata don’t automatically sling insults at people who disagree with us. We usually try to engage them.
That “most” clearly doesn’t include you, Verity. In fact, are you a real person at all or just some left-wing student who’s having a larf with his mates, posting the most loopy right-wing crap that comes into his mind?
Oh, and there is a fatwah on gratuitous personal insults imposed by the owner of this blog.
Lucky there’s not a fatwa on gratuitous stupidity, otherwise they’d have stoned you to death by now.
Tomahawk,
Depart in a copulating fashion,you egregious snotty little Blair Babe.Get redy to pack your bags your master has shot his bolt.
Ron Prick
At Harry’s Place we’re a little more robust iand capable of both dishing it out and taking it. Now, who are the girlie men, again…?
Actually, I have worked out the perfect solution to our political predicament: when Tony does finally depart, why doesn’t Cameron jump ship and become a NuLab PM?! I’d be happy, because my party would stay in govt! Moonbat Verity would be happy, because hers would stay in opposition! Everyone’s a winner!
But I know, I know. It’s time to go. This is a wingnut site for wingnut people! We’ll have have no trouble here!
Mm.
Seems to me that Tomahawk is amusingly unaware that the political spectrum is a good deal broader than he thinks it is, as mistakes assertion and insult for debate.
Looks like a good argument for privatizing the BBC, IMO.
Little Chopper,
Harry’s Place is girls school compared to where some of us go,
What is this crush you have on Cameron,are you feeling guilty about your changing loyalties?
“Is there anything more damning than being praised by a French politician?”
Yes,having Tomahawk as a disciple.
He’ll be back!
Ron Prick
There’s only one person at Harry’s Place who’s ever used that hilarious term – john2[lol]. As anyone who frequents HP will know, john2 is a virulent little racist who pops in the comment threads from time to time. To my knowledge, this is the first time anyone has ever quoted him approvingly. He’ll be so thrilled! So, are you a BNPer too, Ron? You’re pretty obviously a sexist, and Christ, I won’t even get you on to the subject of raving poofters…!
rosignol
No, I’m aware of how broad the political spectrum is, but something tells me you lot aren’t. Verity et al seem to think that anyone to the left of Adolf is a communist!
I must say, it’s quite amusing to see the good denizens of Samizdata straining at the leash to get me banned because they don’t like people telling ’em how it is: “Libertarianism can only flourish on this blog if there’s Nanny Statism in the threads!”
While the difference between right-wing authoritarianism and left-wing authoritarianism may be of only academic interest (unless one has the misfortune to live in a country run by such people), there is a difference. I suggest you educate yourself, or at least practice your powers of telepathy before trying to divine what Verity (or myself) may or may not think.
As far as banning you is concerned, that is entirely up to the owners of the website. I have no opinion on that matter, save to say that trying to provoke such an action is the behavior of a troll.
Told you he’d be back……and another thing…!
Sounds more like Cherie by the minute.
Who the fuck is John2…Prescott? Or are you just boasting about your sanitary arrangements?
Two things about lefties I always notice is their a) rudeness, b) contempt for others, as a browse through the Grauniads comments section will reveal.
An odd combination given they are supposed to be Saving The World.
Ron, rosignol, Verity, GCooper, Pete, and others
Stop attacking Tomahawk!
Tomahawk perfectly fits the typical profile of a Harry’s Place commentator ie.
thought of himself as socialist in the sixth form, went on peace demos and anti-globalisation marches at Uni, voted Blair unthinkingly in 97 and 01 but debated a Kennedy vote in 05, is increasingly concerned that the left has come out in support of far-right organisations such as MPAC (what happened to gay and wimmin’s rights he wonders), used to love the EU (after all, it has secured peace in Europe) but is appalled by the CAP and the appalling Franco-German alliance, is virulently anti-racist but is deeply confused about what to make of Islamism, and is now enchanted by Cameron (is he what he hoped Blair would be?) though dismissive of ‘shire dwellers and their country life.
Dont attack them but encourage them. They are all convertible to the cause of liberty and smaller government.
Blood expensive bit of moral high ground, that.
Bugger!! He hasn’t gone has he?
I was busy earlier, but I’d got my whet stone out for a nice hatchet job.
Never mind I’ll save it for later. I’m sure he’ll be back.
I wonder what santa is bringing Tom for christmas this year( I cant be arsed to type out the whole of his ridiculous moniker). Probably the wigwam to go with it, and the Zanulab colouring book, the Bumper book of EU achievements perhaps? No as you were, that last one Brussels still has out to tender- cant find an author apparently. Even Jeffrey Archer has refused it. Says even he cant lie that well.
Poor confused Tom is the ultimate endictment of the Comprehensive system.
If he thinks the Samizdata regulars were a bit hard on him, try posting on the anti idiotarian rottweiler site Tom my son, I guarantee that you don’t get futher than your first post before you are cut down in a crossfire that will probably make you cry!
Maybe when your older.
And I for the life of me cant see what’s “Frilly” about the name Verity. From Veritas meaning truth surely?
The “moral high ground” in the elite political world of the EU is like gaining the “moral high ground” in a whorehouse. Who cares?
Poor, stupid, inept, incompetent Tone didn’t even get any glory for his £8.2bn gift of British taxpayer’s money to the EU. Angela Merkle pulled the rug out from under his feet and got all the praise. (Link)
“It is possible to look at this in a positive way, that TB has gained himself (or perhaps the UK) the moral high ground by giving up a sizable chunk of cash to further the expansion.”
How is it a MORAL high ground if we had to PAY for it.and why is expansion good?
Pommygranate – thus spake the voice of reason, but too late, alas. BTW – that was a pretty accurate thumbnail sketch of me, with just a couple of caveats: as a supporter of the war, I wasn’t tempted by Chucky Kennedy, and neither am I “deeply confused” about Islamism – it’s fascism, as we HPers well know. Otherwise, spot on! Unfortunately, the only way in which the names to whom you addressed your post could convince me of anything would be if I were first lobotomised. Ain’t gonna happen!
RAB – what a brave little boy you are! You waited safely until I had left the site before getting out your whet stone! Amazingly, you claim “he thinks the Samizdata regulars were a bit hard on him”, but you’ll find that Verity, Tory Boy et al. had precisely the opposite complaint – that I was too hard on them! That silly sap Verity wisely chose not to come back for seconds last night.
I received an email today with “Samizdata” in the subject line. Naturally, I immediately thought it was the threatened fatwa from Mullah Havilland, but instead it was praise for my analysis from a fellow commenter! We had some differences of opinion, of course, but one thing on which we were agreed was his description of “Verity [the loud and rather stupid contributor in the comments section]”. Hear, hear!
Meanwhile, Richard Littlebrain of The Sun writes: “This so-called budget agreement is another humiliating defeat for Bliar and will impoverish this country, costing us an extra £1bn a year, which works out at a whopping 0.0008% of GDP… er, yeah but no but yeah but no but, think of all that money going on keeping millions of East European gypoes in luxury! I’ve seen them! They all live in state-of-the-art wooden huts, which are even served by a communal cold water tap a mile down the road! And who’s paying for it? The Great British taxpayer, that’s who! Oh shit, gotta rush! I have to finish that 800-word shriek on how the Soviet Union was never abolished but was transformed into the EU when everyone was put under hypnosis by Paul McKenna!”
I could engage you in debate aboubt the EU, but you can’t say anything supportive of the Union here! It’s like sounding a claxon in a cave full of sleeping bats: they’ll be a-hurtlin’ and a-screechin’ in all directions, and the batshit will fly everywhere!
See y’all! x
Gosh! Little Tommy is so theatrical,just like his master,can’t leave, has to make an exit.
Next thing will be a comeback tour.
BTW Tommy Luvie, you are overfond of the “I” word always a giveaway of the self love that screams its name.
Oh Thomas boy bach!
I have tried to be subtle, I have tried to be humourous but you don’t even understand the basics do you?
Let’s precis this down.
Zanulab is an abomination of knee jerk reaction that benefits least those who it seeks to benefit most.
Why?
Because they are clueless cretins. I was going to say like you. But you are not like them you went to a wonderful bog standard Comp that has fitted you so well to see in the sunrise of a socialist dawn for all humanity. That’s what they told you didn’t they?
They have been lying for a loooong time!
“They ” went to Fettes and Eton. They , having been the subject of a first class education should know better.
Me, well like I said upfront, I was not available earlier to give you a good slapping around but if you would like to choose your subject place and time…
This is interesting. (Link) The Brits are the most discontented with the EU and the discontent is growing. Happiest with the EU are the Irish.
Ok, you lose.
Do you actually know what a ‘wingnut’ is? This is a site that argues for legalising prostitution and drugs, so somehow I do not think we are ‘screwed down like a wingnut’.