We are developing the social individualist meta-context for the future. From the very serious to the extremely frivolous... lets see what is on the mind of the Samizdata people.

Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]

Quelle surprise!

As I expected, the usual suspects are happy to take to the streets of western cities to protest against Israel and the USA, ostensibly for killing or being a party to killing people, but I have yet to see large scale demos in London, Manchester, Edinburgh and Dublin on behalf of the Yazidis and Chaldean Christians being murdered by Islamists.

I look forward to this changing but I will not be holding my breath in the meantime.

62 comments to Quelle surprise!

  • There are some rumblings on the webz:

    http://www.catholic.org/news/international/middle_east/story.php?id=56481&wf=rsscol

    Children beheaded. The gory stuff when you scroll down.

  • Truth is rarer than unicorns

  • stuart

    M. Simon – That artical made me email my MP for the first time in my life.

    I suppose there is a point though that those demonstrations might actually change Israels behavior (whether it should or not is a different question) it being a connected democratic moral western state. I think even if every person in Europe took to the streets asking ISIS to stop it would make no difference (it might in fact embolden them.)Im sure some of the protestors are aware of both of those points.

  • APL

    I found the treatment of this story by the Guardian interesting.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/isis-militants-blow-up-jonah-tomb

    In the headline it’s ‘Jonah’s tomb’ tomb that is being destroyed, only a couple of sentences in do you get to hear that it’s an actual mosque ( Now I don’t give a rats arse about their temples).

    But, can you imagine the furore that would ensue if the US or British forces accidentally (or on purpose) fired a mortar into a mosque?

  • Johnnydub

    M. SImon – my God that article is vomit inducing…

    However I want to shove Own Jones et al’s face into it, as that is exactly what his HAMAS chums would do to all 8 million Jews in Israel if they simply had the opportunity…

    What fucking cunts he and his friends are…

  • AndrewZ

    The “anti-War” movement is the anti-West movement. It doesn’t stand for anything except an unconditional hostility to Western governments, Western society and Western culture and it will march for literally anybody who is against those things. But the idea that the West is the root of all evil is a product of the Cold War. The “anti-War” movement is fighting an imaginary version of the West that only ever existed in Soviet propaganda. They are zombie Stalin’s sockpuppets, chanting the lies of a dead empire for the benefit of people who would happily kill them all.

  • The article linked to by M. Simon makes me remember the outrage at mishandled Korans and prisoners being led around by a leash and think the west is absolutely fucked if, by contrast, beheaded kids raise not a whimper.

  • Fraser Orr

    I think notwithstanding your point, what I’d like to see is our Muslim friends taking to the street to protest Hamas using children and civilians as human shields.

  • Paul Marks

    Quite so Perry – and you will not be seeing marches from the left in favour of fighting the “Islamic State” (IS) and ISIS has renamed itself.

    Nor (sadly) will Fraser be seeing marches denouncing Hamas for using Muslim civilians as human shields.

    When Israel carried on the latest cease fire, Hamas appeared to be actively disappointed – and carried on firing (again, and again, and again) till Israel fired back.

    “Oh you tool of the Zionists Paul”.

    Actually I was watching this on Al Jazeera – their correspondents in Gaza reported no Israeli attacks, even whilst their correspondents on the other side of the lines reported attack after attack from Hamas.

    The very organisation that the owners of Al Jazeera fund.

    Hamas welcomes civilian Muslim casualties and actively tries to bring them about (by putting women and children with its missiles).

    If, by some miracle, no civilians were killed by Israeli counter fire – Hamas would just kill the Muslim civilians themselves (to have something to wave at the cameras).

    Yes Hamas would do it – and the Red/Green scum on the streets of European cities would not offer one peep of protest about it.

    By the way some of our “libertarian” brothers and sisters are making fools of themselves over Gaza, as they over the Ukraine (and everywhere else).

    The spirit of Murray Rothbard and the dreadful harm he did to the pro liberty movement (by associating it with anti Americanism and being hostile to the West in general) goes on.

    For example, the campaign of Senator Rand Paul to be President of the United States has a “mad woman in the attic” problem (a male one), in the shape of the Senator’s father (hopelessly deceived and mislead by the Rothbardians) who will not shut up.

    Meanwhile in Britain the nationalise-the-railways (not understanding that Network Rail is already 100% government owned) right (the Dail Mail – Mail on Sunday, blood-and-soil right) is busy defending Putin and saying nothing should be done to oppose IS in Iraq.

    Yes dear old Peter Hitchens is busy.

    I wonder what he thinks of biotech companies? “Frankenstein food” most likely(that is the Daily Mail view). After all such things are not “organic” (as Himmler explained long ago).

    As for the left – they seem to be even closer to the Himmler playbook.

    Down with big business! Down with the corporations! All secretly controlled by the …….

    And (of course) “free Palestine” (the Emperor Hadrian lives!) “from the river to the sea” (consult a map and you will understand what that chant means).

  • Sean McCartan

    Some genuine evrn-handedness wouldnt go amiss. Israel’s action in Gaza has certainly passed the point of proportionality. Many in the Israeli military and government know this. Heck , Netanyahu probably knows this.
    Sensible and honest people certainly know this.

    ‘Anti war’ protests across Europe are opening the door to some vile , latent anti semitism among Europeans , young and old , and some culturally embedded anti semitism among European Arabs. Sensible and honest people certainly know this.

    Barbarian , fascist anti-everything fruitbats are overrunning much of northern Mesoptamia and are threatening the hard-won state of the Kurds , a decent , courageous and tolerant ( by the standards of the region) people. By many accounts , they are committing acts of unthinkable barbarity. They need to be stopped , by any means at our disposal. Sensible and honest people know this.

  • Some genuine evrn-handedness wouldnt go amiss. Israel’s action in Gaza has certainly passed the point of proportionality

    The rational use of military force is never ‘proportionate’ to anything other than “how much force is needed to achieve victory?”. So it all comes down to what are Israel’s war aims and therefore how does one define “victory”.

    If Israel intends to destroy Hamas as a military organisation and crush its ability to both govern and fight, then it needs to use a great deal of military force. Is Hamas still firing rockets into Israel? Indeed it is, ergo Israel has not been disproportionate enough in its use of force to achieve its probably war aims and should probably ratchet things up a bit, rather than allow this to drag on.

  • Runcie Balspune

    Ken Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, tweets about the “civilian” casualty rates reported by Hamas, possibly needing a clue:

    Young men over-represented among Gaza dead: unclear if Hamas won't acknowledge fighters or Israel targets young men. http://t.co/Vnk1QcsGls— Kenneth Roth (@KenRoth) August 9, 2014

    https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/497967947479273472

  • Runcie Balspune

    I think notwithstanding your point, what I’d like to see is our Muslim friends taking to the street to protest Hamas using children and civilians as human shields.

    They’ve already tried that, with predicatble results:

    http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Report-Hamas-executes-alleged-spies-shoots-protesters-in-Gaza-369331

    And in case you think that protests against extremists in western countries might be safer:

    http://www.thelocal.de/20140807/echoes-of-iraq-conflict-on-streets-of-herford-yezidi-islamic-state

  • rosenquist

    Not entirely sure why the OP surprised that what is widely considered a democratic Western state is held to higher standards than a rogue jihadist group.

  • Not entirely sure why the OP surprised that what is widely considered a democratic Western state is held to higher standards than a rogue jihadist group.

    But that is not what the OP thinks at all. Indeed I think you are confused if you think that is how to analyse what is going on. The people marching in the streets are not holding ‘a democratic Western state’ (Israel) to a higher standard standard than Hamas. Not at all, not by any stretch of the imagination.

  • Johnnydub

    rosenquist – you’re a fucking idiot.

    Israel’s goal is to stop the HAMAS missiles.

    HAMAS’s goal is to sacrifice its people so it can play a PR war in the west relying on fools like you.

    Both sides are achieving their objectives.

  • Keep it civil please Johnnydub, overt rudeness is the exclusive prerogative of The Management.

  • pete

    The Gaza protestors are just the usual bunch who protest about anything which fits their warped view of the world.

    Guantanamo Bay’s prison camp used to be on their list of things to protest about, but all those particular marches, demos and vigils stopped the minute Bush left office and Obama took over.

  • rosenquist

    rosenquist – you’re a fucking idiot.
    Israel’s goal is to stop the HAMAS missiles.
    HAMAS’s goal is to sacrifice its people so it can play a PR war in the west relying on fools like you.
    Both sides are achieving their objectives.

    Apologies ‘Johnnydub’ I sometimes forget that in any online discussion of Israel and Palestine there is an axiomatic presupposition that one side is pure good and the other pure evil.

    now wipe that froth away from your mouth.

  • Laird

    rosenquist, Johnnydub’s rhetoric was a bit extreme but the point he made is not. His last three sentences were exactly correct. (I have no opinion on the first one.)

  • Snorri Godhi

    Johnnydub’s rhetoric was a bit extreme but the point he made is not. His last three sentences were exactly correct. (I have no opinion on the first one.)

    Amen to that.
    A link of interest in this connection:
    http://www.the-american-interest.com/articles/2014/08/05/the-medias-role-in-hamas-war-strategy/

    A couple of comments:
    First, i believe that anybody of (at least) average intelligence, and with a realist view of human nature, would come to the same conclusion just by causal reading about the present crisis, even on the BBC. I know i did.

    Second, i’m not sure that the western media* are puppets of Hamas, as the link implies: an alternative interpretation is that Hamas is a puppet of the western media. After all, Hamas would not do what it does, without incitement from the western media. Plus, nobody in the western media is at risk from Israeli retaliation; but everybody in Hamas is.

    * in practice, i assume that means the BBC and the NY Times.
    Most of the rest seem to be just a herd.

  • From what I have seen, there is a sizable (no idea what the actual size is) opposition to Hamas in Gaza, mostly silent, for obvious reasons. However, let not anyone labor under the false assumption that opposition to Hamas means any sort of non-militant position towards Israel, because it certainly does not. My impression is that those opposing Hamas, oppose it for all kinds of obvious reasons – namely, corruption, religious fanaticism, inability to govern and run any kind of successful economy (duh), and its outright thuggery and rein of terror over its own “citizens”. What most of these people have no objection to is the Hamas original raison d’etre, which is the annihilation of Israel. If anything, one of the reasons at least some of them are angry at Hamas, is its lack of success in achieving this goal.

  • Fraser Orr

    @Sean McCartan
    > Israel’s action in Gaza has certainly passed the point of proportionality.

    War isn’t meant to be proportional. War is when reasonable discussions at the negotiating table fail, and it is necessary to force the other side to an acceptable position, in accordance with various treaties on the conduct of war that have been negotiated from time to time. All of these treaties eschew the behavior of Hamas.

    On the contrary, I think Israel has been extremely reserved in their actions. If you had a kid at a local high school and some nut job was shooting up the place, would you advocate that the police use proportional force, or would you advocate that they used overwhelming force?

    I am reminded of a cartoon I saw recently, which I can’t for the life of me locate. It was a picture of a Hamas fighter holding a list of demands which says “Death to all Jews”. Mediating between him and Netanyahu was John Kerry who was saying “Can’t Israel meet them half way?” That seems an excellent summary of the situation as it stands today.

  • Jeremy

    Our core institutions know the score, even if our politicians do not. All the Hamas supporters marching through London will have been imaged and their records will now reside on multiple Five Eyes databases.

  • Stuart

    Israel intends to destroy Hamas as a military organization and crush its ability to both govern and fight, then it needs to use a great deal of military force. Is Hamas still firing rockets into Israel? Indeed it is, ergo Israel has not been disproportionate enough in its use of force to achieve its probably war aims and should probably ratchet things up a bit, rather than allow this to drag on.

    That seems to oversimplify the use of force, as if in war if your not achieving your goal, all you need to do is apply more force. I don’t think even if the Israeli government desired to use unlimited amounts of force (which it isn’t even close to doing so) it would be successful because the Israeli public wouldn’t stand for it, where as it might be able to achieve its goal by more smartly using its force, which it has been doing so on the defense side (the iron dome, red warnings, separation barriers etc.) it just needs to find an equivalent methodology on the offensive side, somehow the ability to neuter both Hamas and the political aspiration of the Palestinians ethnically cleanse the middle east of Jews.

  • That seems to oversimplify the use of force, as if in war if your not achieving your goal, all you need to do is apply more force.

    Well yes, you either apply more force or apply it in a different manner if the previous approach is not working. And I strongly suspect what the Israeli public is not going to stand for is anything that does not look a lot like success. Of course much depends on how you define success. Already anyone looking at how things have transpired will have ‘credibility issues’ if they say Hamas can reasonably claim this was a win for them (yes I realise it is unwise to use the words ‘reasonably’ and ‘Hamas’ in the same sentence).

  • lucklucky

    “Israel’s action in Gaza has certainly passed the point of proportionality.” @Sean McCartan

    This kind of affirmations is the biggest example of cretinism i see in recent times. Shows how Communists can get away with primitive propaganda.

    Let’s seems what “proportionality” might means in your own words:

    Israel turns off Iron Dome: 100 israeli dead
    Israel closes civilian bunkers. 100 israeli dead
    Israel turns off rocket warnings: 400 israeli dead
    Israel doesn’t not bomb Gaza: 400 israeli dead

    Is it a fair number for you and the more than 3500 rockets that Gaza sent against Israel? – less 400 of them fell in Gaza btw.

    Then with 1000 Israelis dead you’ll shut up?

  • The truth is starting to leak out a little:

    …Palestinian militants launching 110 rockets of which 80 smashed into Israel.

    http://news.yahoo.com/israel-pounds-gaza-mediators-try-rescue-truce-175133149.html

    If those numbers are typical it means that roughly 30% of the Gaza Arab’s fire amounts to Harm Us attacks on itself and “its” people.

  • lucklucky

    The usual number is about 15-20% of Hamas rockets fall into Gaza.

  • Hi Guys, I am starting to delete straight ad hominem comments, so feel free to disagree with other folks, but leave any required rudeness to The Management please.

  • The three things that separate the present day Left from the old school National Socialists are grooming, a bath and a uniform.

  • The driving force would be the fundamental racism of the broad left. Inasmuch the Israelis are not inferior niggers but superior whites (like the Left), their massacring of inferior niggers is bad. Inasmuch ISIS are inferior niggers and not superior whites (like the Left), their massacring of people is all you could possibly expect out of the sort of inferior niggers that aren’t superior whites (like the Left).

    This may sound shocking, and would readily be rejected by the superior whites (in their own mind) in question, but nevertheless, it’s the one explanation that actually fits the observed data over the past century or so. How else, for instance, would you explain the shockingly ahistorical South Africa references ?

  • Proportional – so as Germany weakened in WW2 the bombing should have stopped? When there were no German planes in the air the allies should have grounded theirs? To keep things proportional?

    Note: it appears that Harm Us is calling for a truce and they have reduced their demands. We shall see if it holds. Evidently Israel’s demand – “No negotiating under fire” is a sign of Hamas weakness. One paper (American) says the war has made Hamas stronger.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/opinion/how-hamas-beat-israel-in-gaza.html

    A few more Hamas victories like the current one and they will be out of business.

    Also note: ISIS has claimed that they are now part of the Gaza mix.

    Latest ceasfire:
    http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/39858-140811-with-ceasefire-holding-israeli-delegates-head-to-cairo

  • Nick (Natural Genius) Gray

    What is the longest time that a ceasefire has held in these conflicts? Who will cry ‘Uncle Sam’ first?

  • Yes, it always seemed strange to me that Hamas and it’s supporters in the West could simultaneously claim victory whilst shrieking that Israel was using excessive force. My take is that it has been a long time since anyone changed their mind on the Israel-Palestinian conflict, and hence all we’re seeing is preaching to the choir leaving newspapers free to shore up their core support with ludicrous and inconsistent stories that their readers want to hear.

  • Rob

    Regarding ‘proportionality’, I ask the same question: if you lived in North London, and an Islamist Republic in Tower Hamlets was indiscriminately firing rockets into your neighbourhood, what would you consider to be ‘proportional’ regarding a response and casualty rates?

  • Johnnydub

    Exactly Rob.. All this talk about proportionality = it’s a shame HAMAS aren’t better at killing Israelis.

  • Runcie Balspune

    As we talk of proportional response, let us remind ourselves of what Hamas consider to be the paragon of virtue did when conducting punishments of war

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

  • Snag

    Disappointed that my reasonable comment was deleted.

    (editors note: If it had not contained that last line, it would not have been.)

  • Trofim

    AndrewZ @ 2:18 pm

    “But the idea that the West is the root of all evil is a product of the Cold
    War”.

    That’s silly. The West is hated because for better or worse western countries
    colonised what are generally called third-world countries in the past, and said
    third-world countries wish to try and rub the West’s nose in it as long as
    possible. It’s nothing to do with the Cold War.

  • Snag

    editors note: If it had not contained that last line, it would not have been

    I can’t even remember what it was!

  • Mr Ed

    if you lived in North London, and an Islamist Republic in Tower Hamlets was indiscriminately firing rockets into your neighbourhood, what would you consider to be ‘proportional’ regarding a response and casualty rates?

    If that were to happen, it still wouldn’t provoke a response from HM Government other than ‘lessons have been learnt‘ and ‘we must spend more on de-radicalisation‘, rather than to re-commission HMS Belfast and give her a little run down the Thames for some gunnery practice.

  • peter

    I think a very fundamental misconception or naivety people have concerning Israeli worldview is that they are looking for “victory” or to “destroy” Hamas.
    I believe the Israeli doctrine is for CONTAINMENT, i.e. a constant low-level struggle with occasional flareups, but meanwhile things progress nicely apace.
    My two young daughters just landed in Israel and are touring about,and they say that things there are going extremely well, and the atmosphere is very confident or at least “stoic”. Also society there is shifting rightwards very clearly.
    There will never be an end to the wars, as there will never be an end to “war”, but if the population is optimistic that they can raise a family and be successful then everything else is a secondary concern.

  • I think a very fundamental misconception or naivety people have concerning Israeli worldview is that they are looking for “victory” or to “destroy” Hamas.

    Well I imagine you might tend to get people replying to your comments with anatomical references, given your propensity to bandy the words misconception or naivety about, but I will suffice to say I would love to put you in a room with a certain IDF chap I know and let him give you a lesson in semantics and then on the range of Israeli worldviews. Ah well, one can dream but I imagine he is rather busy at the moment.

    Israel has already achieved victory and Hamas has already been defeated, all that remains is a few spasms and the customary ritual exchange of insults. The fact Hamas have failed to inflict serious losses and the fact large number of their people have been killed is exactly what an Israeli victory can be expected to look like.

    Hamas probably knows it has been defeated (assuming a few of the somewhat rational ones are still alive, that is) even if the good folks over at the Guardian are unlikely to get the memo. And to add insult to injury, the mind boggling and very public ISIS nastiness could not have come at a better/worse time for Israel/Hamas. Moreover if the eventual outcome of this is Hamas is reduced to political insignificance in Gaza in the medium term, they it can quite reasonably be said to have been ‘destroyed’.

  • Peter, it is a bit more complicated than that…(yeah, I know, what a surprise):

    I believe the Israeli doctrine is for CONTAINMENT, i.e. a constant low-level struggle with occasional flareups, but meanwhile things progress nicely apace.

    It is true that this seems to be the “doctrine” (more like a default modus operandi for lack of any less-bad options, at least as the leadership seems to be seeing it). But, things are progressing apace less nicely than may have otherwise been possible, because at least in the eyes of some, both within and without, Israel is losing its deterrence element. Which is a good time to add that I am a supporter of an extremely disproportionate response to any kind of violent provocation, and that is far from what Israel has been doing for the past several decades.

    My two young daughters just landed in Israel and are touring about,and they say that things there are going extremely well, and the atmosphere is very confident or at least “stoic”.

    Your daughters are far from being correct: ‘stoic’ has become second nature, but things are not going extremely well and too many of us feel far from confident, mainly for the reason outlined above. We may well be proven wrong, and Perry may well be proven right in that this latest installment in the never-ending series known as The Conflict may well be the political end of Hamas. But that is not the prevalent feeling here at the moment. Me, I’m agnostic.

    Also society there is shifting rightwards very clearly.

    Your daughters are very much correct about this, and this is true not only in Israel, as far as I can tell. It does look like the Islamist penny has finally began to drop in most minds in the West.

    There will never be an end to the wars, as there will never be an end to “war”, but if the population is optimistic that they can raise a family and be successful then everything else is a secondary concern.

    True, to an extent.

  • Mr Ed
    August 11, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    I like your attitude.

    BTW you should look at the comments to this post:

    http://therationalmale.com/2014/08/07/open-hypergamy/comment-page-2/#comment-50142

    and

    http://therationalmale.com/2014/08/07/open-hypergamy/comment-page-2/#comment-50143

    What we are seeing is a society like we had in the 20s. Weimar. Women have become dominant, “equal”, and men have become wimps. “No more war”.

    I tell the boys there to grow a pair and I’m roundly denounced as a warmonger.

    It feels like early 1939 to me. Well at least you have Nigel Farage. Who do we Americans have? Rand Paul? Nice chap. Generally good ideas. But he has embraced wimpery.

  • Perry de Havilland (London)
    August 11, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Quite so.

  • Julie near Chicago

    Alisa, thanks for notes on how people are really feeling in Israel. I’ve been wondering about that.

  • You are welcome, Julie, although these are only my own impressions, FWIW.

  • Alisa
    August 11, 2014 at 8:37 pm

    You are welcome, Julie, although these are only my own impressions, FWIW.

    From the reports I read on line your report is congruent. The numbers are that 85% have turned right or hard right. The blood is up.

    You will note that ISIS has not touched Israel from Syria.

  • You will note that ISIS has not touched Israel from Syria.

    They probably have an interest in surviving until the end of the week.

  • Paul Marks

    Alisa is correct about the opposition to Hamas in Gaza being anti Israeli (very anti Israeli – other than as a possible tool against Hamas) – oddly enough (although thousands of miles away) I know a bit about this opposition to Hamas in Gaza.

    As for “proportionality” – the “proportional” response to someone who wants to drive you out, it to drive THEM out.

    Does Mr McCarton support such a policy concerning Gaza? It would save civilian lives.

    Besides the Islamic population of Gaza are always complaining (long before the recent fighting) of how hard their lives are in Gaza – would they not be less unhappy in the vast Islamic world that stretches from the Atlantic (Morocco) to the Pacific (Indonesia).

    When Jews were driven out of the countries of the Middle East the “international community” did not declare them “refugees” and subsidise them with welfare for GENERATIONS. They integrated into Israel (a country the size of Wales).

    Why should not Muslims from Gaza (who have said or years how unhappy they are – and refuse to stop firing rockets and mortars)not integrate into other nations of the Islamic world?

    That would be “proportionate” – but it is NOT the policy of the Israeli government. Would Mr McCarton like it to be the policy of the Israeli government? After all he demands that things be “proportionate” – which means that the Muslims of the land “between the river and the sea” (the chant of the leftists and Islamists) should be treated in the way that Jews (and Christians) are treated in the rest of the Middle East.

    By the way – what happened to all those Protestants and Catholic Unionists in the South of Ireland after 1919?

    The Catholic Nationalist (the term “Catholic” is confusing as the core of the IRA contains many atheist Marxists) population of Ulster are still there – indeed there are more of them than ever.

    But where are all the Protestants and Catholic Unionists who used to live in the South? Where are they? A handful still exist – but what about all the others?

    Perhaps there should be some “proportionality” in Ireland…….

  • Julie near Chicago

    Alisa,

    In your particular case “FWIW” is quite a bit, forgive my saying so. ;)

  • lucklucky

    Perry concerning Kurd ISIL cooperation was in the news at begin of the combat. Also some news about ISIL killing some Kurds from an allied tribe and making the respective tribe enraged.
    But the biggest evidence is the control of Mosul. Mosul is a city of 1-2 million at edge of Kurdistan but while it has a Sunni preponderance ten thousands of Kurds live there and the city control wouldn’t happen without their acquiescence.

  • But the biggest evidence is the control of Mosul. Mosul is a city of 1-2 million at edge of Kurdistan but while it has a Sunni preponderance ten thousands of Kurds live there and the city control wouldn’t happen without their acquiescence.

    No that proves nothing of the sort. The ‘start line’ for the Peshmerga forces was behind Kirkuk. Mosul (and indeed Kirkuk) was Iraqi army area of control. Indeed Peshmerga were not allowed to enter those areas and they only just reached Kirkuk before ISL when it became clear the Iraqi army was collapsing without a fight, so there was zero chance they could have made it to Mosul before the Islamists. Plus Kirkuk already had a large Kurdish community, Mosul had only an insignificant one, hence whereas Kurds have long demanded Kirkuk be handed over to them, Mosul is by no imagination a Kurdish city, so no way in hell would the Peshmerga have had plans in place to move in (taking it before the current reality shifted would have meant civil war against Baghdad).

    You need to understand the Peshmerga are a cohesive army, not some rag tag tribal army, but they are also now hugely overstretched, under supplied and not all that mobile by and large. They tend to defend areas with regular reserves moving to support local Kurdish militia.

    And I would be curious to see links to these stories of Kurdish/ISIL cooperation. Where is this said to have happened? I am deeply sceptical.

  • Julie near Chicago

    AndrewZ,

    The “anti-War” movement is the anti-West movement. It doesn’t stand for anything except an unconditional hostility to Western governments, Western society and Western culture and it will march for literally anybody who is against those things…. [T]he idea that the West is the root of all evil is a product of the Cold War.

    Trofim,

    The West is hated because for better or worse western countries colonised what are generally called third-world countries in the past, and said third-world countries wish to try and rub the West’s nose in it as long as possible. It’s nothing to do with the Cold War.

    Both AndrewZ and Trofim are correct, except in the final sentence quoted from each.

    Anti-West-ism is a complex in which Marxism-Leninism-Stalinism and the hatred of Western colonialism have joined hands. Indeed, they have become melded to a large extent.

    On the Left and amongst its youngsters the liberals, so-called “anti-war”-ism is, of course, no such thing. Actually the idea is that any Western country, especially the U.S., Israel, and the U.K., that engages in war must (as a matter of principle) be in the wrong.

    (As an aside, there is a strain of not-exactly-leftism — it does not hold with egalitarianism, nor with governmental action not required by the defense of individual liberty — that also holds this idea, although that strain loudly proclaims, at least, that once a country is directly attacked by another country, on its own turf, it might be justified in fighting back. So, Jack, once you’ve taken the first bullet you’re allowed to return fire. If, of course, you still can.) Naturally, it is politically counterproductive for Leftist governmental personnel to admit this in the strong (accurately-stated) form, so they tend to come out all for various instances of military self-defense, although in their Leftist heart-of-hearts I doubt they mean a word of it. However, there are of some of them in whom a trace of their cultural identity as Americans hasn’t been entirely obliterated — I think. E.g., “voted for the war before [they] voted against it.”

    . . .

    1. Western Colonialism:

    It is true that there has been strong resentment, even hatred, of their European “masters” probably since the beginning amongst indigenous peoples whose lands were colonized or who were subjugated by various European groups or regimes. (It is also true that initially not all the indigenous subgroups felt that way. For instance certain American Indian tribes were happy to treat the British newcomers in a friendly fashion, to trade with them, to share their knowledge of local survival techniques, and so forth.)

    .

    2. Cold War and Before:

    Note that Communism had complete global domination as its end-goal, hence the Communist International (v. whatever). It is also true that the Communists of the USSR began promulgating anti-liberal (proper sense) ideas in the West (and certainly in America), in part by taking over the name and some of the compatible aims of American Progressivism (such as it was in the ’20’s). Thus modern Leftism in the U.S. was developed from a somewhat embryonic project to a distinctly Marxist, then Marxist-Leninist, and then Marxist-Stalinist one. In the course of this, Westerners were taught to revile (in principle) anything to do with Western colonialism, and their own past histories for taking part in such.

    Also, they were taught to hate their nations’ pasts for its commission of the crimes of slavery, and for various sins of the average Western (especially U.S. and U.K., I think) person’s treatment of and attitude toward other people in his society. In other words, the aim was to lay the most massive guilt-trip possible on the peoples of the West.

    In this way, the moral self-confidence necessary to a society’s survival, and therefore to a country’s survival as itself, as a society and a country worth preserving despite admitted failings in its past and present, would be destroyed.

    In short, Westerners, at least the U.S., the U.K., and Israel (Westernism being a philosophical and cultural thing, not a matter of geography), are taught — propagandized — into hating their country. This has worked to an alarming degree, although there are also loud internal voices (at least in the U.S.) that call this B.S. what it is. Whether they can keep their fire and prevail is another matter….

    And one of the worst of all the West’s sins was its rejection of Communism (that is, of world-wide Communist Empire), and its refusal to allow that Empire to take the rest of the world by force of arms.

    Thus, the “anti-War” tenet in the mainstream Left’s dogma. Anti-war, meaning “we are against any war engaged in by the West.”

    .

    3. Joining Hands:

    Meanwhile, under Marxism-Leninism and then Marxism-Stalinism and right on through the life of the USSR, right up to the present moment, anti-Colonial hatred in the Third World, but especially in Africa, was fomented and fanned there.

    And not only in Africa. The same is true here in the U.S., especially once Victimism became the Social Theory du Jour and became the strongest propaganda, hence political, weapon against America, Americans, and the American past.

    This method is also used against Israel, as an ally (whether formal or not)* of the U.S., an evil thing to be. One who is a friend of Evil, who helps Evil to survive and prosper, who shares most of the “values” of Evil, is himself evil. (A proposition, by the way, for which there is a strong argument, except in the case where the support is the result of literal stupidity or unwitting ignorance.) Also, Israel Bad in her own right, since she has “stolen” the land of “Palestine” from its rightful owners and “colonized” it; and of course she has clearly instituted “apartheid” in Israel. (Just as the U.S. instituted Negro “ghettos” here.)

    Also it has been and still is used to stir up trouble in Central and South America. Isn’t it true that Milton Friedman went down there to Chile and personally whacked Allende, setting up Pinochet as his personal puppet dictator on behalf of United Fruit or Anaconda Copper or some such U.S. CORPORATION?

    . . .

    *I will note that Caroline Glick repeatedly refers to Israel as an ally of the U.S. But what would she know? After all she’s just a nice Jewish girl from… wait for it … Chicago! Hyde Park in fact! Tsk! COOTIES !!! –Thank the Great Frog she was able to escape (to Columbia Univ. ???!!!) before they’d burrowed in so far that she was Zombified!

    Ahem. As to her creds, the Foot of All Knowledge writes of Miss Glick that she

    “…immigrated to Israel in 1991 and joined the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).[5] She worked in the IDF’s Judge Advocate General division during the First Intifada in 1992, and while there edited and co-authored an IDF-published book, Israel, the Intifada and the Rule of Law. Following the Oslo Accords, she worked as coordinator of negotiations with the Palestinian Authority. She retired from the military with the rank of captain at the end of 1996. She then worked for about a year as the assistant to the director general of the Israel Antiquities Authority. She served as assistant foreign policy advisor to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Glick returned to the US to earn a Master of Arts in Public Policy from Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government in 2000.[4]

    “She has been a senior researcher at the IDF’s Operational Theory Research Institute (the Israel Defense establishment’s most prestigious think tank).[7] She has also worked as an adjunct lecturer in tactical warfare at the IDF’s Command and Staff College.[6]“

    Links at source, of course:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Glick

  • Since the Palestinians haven’t signed a peace treaty with Israel they have no claim on the land unless they can hold it.

    The old rules still apply.

    http://classicalvalues.com/2014/08/holding-on/

  • It looks like the residents of Gaza are unhappy with the returns from the war.

    http://classicalvalues.com/2014/08/gaza-residents-war-not-worth-it/

  • Nick (Natural Genius) Gray

    The Palestinians (can’t we shorten that to Pallies?) won’t sign any peace deal unless it gives them a right of return to their lands that are now within Israel. Then they’ll be able to vote for Hamas to the Israeli Knesset, and Hamas will vote to dissolve the Jewish state into Jordan, or create a Palestine Forever Republic. Peace and group hugs all round, yes?

  • […] As I expected, the usual suspects are happy to take to the streets of western cities to protest against Israel and the USA, ostensibly for killing or being a party to killing people, but I have yet to see large scale demos in London, Manchester, Edinburgh and Dublin on behalf of the Yazidis and Chaldean Christians being murdered by Islamists. […]