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The greater victory

Despite that CNN keeps insisting the election was incredibly close, Bush now has exactly the cosy sofa of a mandate I have been predicting for months: good majority in the senate, four million more popular votes than his opponent, above litigation-level majorities in the electoral colleges, plus the endorsement of millions of people who do not usually vote at all, despite that nearly everyone expected increased turnout to be good for the Democrats.

The polls were, of course, wrong in a leftwards direction, as polls have been for years (see Natalie Solent), because the sound and fury of the media and liberal extremists does not make people change their minds, only encourages them to keep quiet about their allegiances so as to avoid having their tyres slashed.

But more important than all these things is the great battle against terrorism that has just been resoundingly won. Every Islamist from Arafat to Bin Laden wanted America to reject its president and vote for the relatively antiwar John Kerry. Anti-Americans everywhere were hoping that the U.S. people would either retreat in fear from the Middle East, or pretend that the “nuisance” did not exist. As the anti-Bush candidate, Kerry would have been the anti-American-values president, standing for ambivalence, appeasement and, in the eyes of Islamism, weakness.

It did not happen. Americans recognised the threat, and voted to continue fighting it. They stood by the Afghan and Iraqi people, waiting for hours in queues in the rain to register their support for George W. Bush and the moral imperative he has vowed to enact. The biggest voter turnout in American history has refused to be cowed by terrorism. And when terrorism fails to terrorise, it has lost.

Perhaps now, for the first time since 9/11, we can begin to hope that an end to this war may be within our distant sights. In any case, the world is safer now than it has been since Al Qaeda launched war on America a little over three years ago. And for that we can afford a few extra sighs of relief between our conservative/ anti-liberal victory toasts.

111 comments to The greater victory

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Our Friends in Fallujah
    RE: Greetings

    This is to inform you that we will be visiting your neighborhood shortly.

    We will give you a warm greeting upon our arrival, as we are very familiar with your customs for receiving US.

    We apologize for our delay, but we were waiting on matters elsewhere to be settled in some fashion, before we could proceed with our intended and much planned for visit.

    Our staff of house-cleaners are well equipped and trained for such activities. Rest assured that when we are finished there will be no further problems of the sort that have plagued your neighborhood for the past year.

    See you soon….

    Regards,

    United States Military Forces in Iraq

  • Pete_London

    I haven’t quite got the gloating out of my system yet. Four years of shrieking, howling, whining, bitching and squealing from the left takes some overcoming. But in any case well said, Alice.

  • Euan Gray

    Remember all those Democrats who complained about the Bush victory in 2000 – scraping through the college and with a minority popular vote? Now, if Kerry had won Ohio, he would have won the Presidency with a narrow margin in the college and a minority of the popular vote.

    It would, of course, be fair and reasonable to expect that these same liberals should, in such a case, refuse to accept the “fictitious president” Kerry. Not that I’d hold my breath, of course.

    I see michaelmoore.com is unavailable at the moment. Doubtless his legions of fans sending their demands for an investigation into how the Bush and Bin Laden families stole the 2004 election with the connivance of the secret Jewish cabal and global megacorporations. You know it makes sense…

    EG

  • Julian Morrison

    It was incredibly close, as percentages go. What the high turnout reveals is that the close split with a slight margin for Bush is truly representative rather than being an artefact of the pollling process – and also, by implication, that regular low-turnout elections are valid statistical samples.

  • Vela

    Bin Laden wanted America to reject its president and vote for the relatively antiwar John Kerry

    I believe the opposite is true. What Bin Laden needs is someone who engages in his dualistic rhetoric, the religious good vs. evil paradigm.

    By responding so predictably to all his provocations the US is now trapped in a costly downward spiral from which there’s no easy way out.

    You really fell for it! Christians are now the main protagonists of a proxy war and they don’t even know it.

  • John Ellis

    True, Vela.

    But I think the weight of opinion (right, left and non-aligned) reckons that Bush won this one fair and square.

    Which is really scary. Four years of Bushism, and the American people (most of it) want more. OK, Kerry lit few fires, but this election seemed to about re-electing Bush, or not.

    They chose, marginally, but indisputably, to do that. If the first few years are are guide, the world is in for a depressing time….

  • GCooper

    Vela writes:

    “…the US is now trapped in a costly downward spiral from which there’s no easy way out.”

    Are you seriously trying to tell us that radical Islam would have given up its struggle if the hapless John Kerry had won last night?

    It is bin Laden and his fellow lunatics that set this train in motion and it is one that doesn’t distinguish between Republican and Democrat infidels.

    You cannot negotiate with a rabid dog – but Kerry would have tried.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Vela
    RE: Could Be

    “By responding so predictably to all his provocations the US is now trapped in a costly downward spiral from which there’s no easy way out.” — Vela

    But we could always just tap the oil.

    RE: History Lessons

    “You really fell for it! Christians are now the main protagonists of a proxy war and they don’t even know it.” — Vela

    Where did you study it?

    This ‘war’ has been going on since the late-8th Century. All this flap since ’48 is just the latest campaign.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    P.S. Nothing “proxy” about it, as US sees it. We’re in the thick of it.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: John Ellis
    RE: Only…

    “They chose, marginally, but indisputably, to do that. If the first few years are are guide, the world is in for a depressing time….” — John Ellis

    …if you’d rather live in dhimmitude or take the pledge. Oh. There IS a ‘third way’. It involves you and a dull knife and the knife is in someone else’s hand and their other hand is holding your hair, very tight.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Sleep well tonight. Rough men are prepared to do violence in order for you to do so.]

  • We're Dooooomed!

    You really fell for it! Christians are now the main protagonists of a proxy war and they don’t even know it.

    You’re talking about the Joooooos!

    By responding so predictably to all his provocations…

    We need the Jimmy Carter approach! Carter in ’08! We can make Michael Moore Secretary of State!

    …the US is now trapped in a costly downward spiral from which there’s no easy way out.

    We’re doooooomed!

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: GCooper
    RE: A Theory

    I suspect that the likes of Vela, John Ellis and their ilk live in England.

    As a result of that, they are not permitted, by their government, to practice the fine art of “self-defense”. Witness their laws about guns, pepper-spray, and what to do in the event of an intruder in your house; if someone breaks in, you MUST get out.

    Therefore, I think they resent our free-wheeling approach to protecting our own lives and property, in the micro and the macro environments. Hence we hear all the flak about how awful it is for us to seek out the criminal in his lair and do justice to him and his kind.

    It’s jealousy….

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [God made men. Colt made men equal. Until the British parliment decided to 're-level' the playing field.]

  • We're Dooooomed!

    Doooooooooooooooooooomed!!!!!!!

  • Mike

    “By responding so predictably to all his provocations the US is now trapped in a costly downward spiral from which there’s no easy way out.”

    Hogwash. There wasn’t an “easy way” to deal wiith Islamofascist terrorism even before Bush invaded Afghanistan. And there really was only one appropriate response to the obliteration of 2,800 people. That’s not a “provocation”: it’s an act of war.

    If your preference is to bend over and invite the terrorists to take turns at you, suit yourself — but don’t expect everyone else to do the same.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: We’re Doooooomed
    RE: Oh?

    “You’re talking about the Joooooos!” — We’re Dooooomed to Vela

    Is that what they meant? Interesting. I don’t recall hearing about 3000+ citizens of Israel being murdered in a couple of hours in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv on 9/11.

    I guess wherever she goes to school has REAL problems teaching geography.

    Thanks for pointing that possibility out to me.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [What one Christian does is his own responsibility. What one Jew does is thrown back at all Jews. - Ann Frank]

    P.S. I see where Vela is coming form now. Those clever Jooooos, getting Osama to kill so many of US.

  • GCooper

    Chuck Pelto writes:

    “TO: GCooper
    RE: A Theory

    I suspect that the likes of Vela, John Ellis and their ilk live in England. ”

    You might be right. But then again, so do I. We’re not all complete wankers over here, you know (though I have to confess we do seem to have more than our fair share).

    Actually, my guess is that the common factor is callow youth. It’s the shrill self-righteousness that gives it away, every time.

  • Bob in the hills

    Chuck(le)
    BS, “W” is nothing more than the most colorful clown in the media circus. Plutocrats will out.

  • Johan J

    Great article, Alice! I agree with everything you said.

    As a Bush supporter living in Europe, this results made my day so wonderfully bright! I am so happy right now! What a defeat for the terrorism and the Euro Left.

  • We're Dooooomed!

    Chuck Pelto,

    When Vela says we’re fighting a proxy war, she means we’re fighting and dying for the jooooooos. I’m sure that’s what she meant. Isn’t that right Vela?

    Those tricky joooooooos!

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Bob in the hills
    RE: But Of Course

    “W” is nothing more than the most colorful clown in the media circus.” — Bob ith

    That explains why they were showering him with glowing accolades.

    Funny thing that, how despite their continual depredations most Americans saw through it to vote for re-electing President Bush.

    Go back to your hills, Bob. The world is not safe for you in cyberspace. You make too many mistakes.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Mark

    Regarding Polling Bias if my father is representative of the average conservative voter, white, middle class and male is that they refuse to talk to anybody who phones them up trying to get information from them or worse sell them things.

    So if a pollster were to phone up this missing-link in the conservative constitutency the most likely answer they would recieve is. “No, I’m busy – now fuck off!”

  • Vela

    Are you seriously trying to tell us that radical Islam would have given up its struggle if the hapless John Kerry had won last night?.

    Of course not. You have to think out of the box!

    It is bin Laden and his fellow lunatics that set this train in motion and it is one that doesn’t distinguish between Republican and Democrat infidels.

    This “train” that you write about has had a very long itinerary. If we don’t know history we’re bound to repeat the same mistakes.

    You cannot negotiate with a rabid dog – but Kerry would have tried.

    We’ll never know now!

  • Vela

    Are you seriously trying to tell us that radical Islam would have given up its struggle if the hapless John Kerry had won last night?.

    Of course not. You have to think out of the box!

    It is bin Laden and his fellow lunatics that set this train in motion and it is one that doesn’t distinguish between Republican and Democrat infidels.

    This “train” that you write about has had a very long itinerary. If we don’t know history we’re bound to repeat the same mistakes.

    You cannot negotiate with a rabid dog – but Kerry would have tried.

    You’ll never know now!

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Johan J
    RE: And For Our Next Trick

    “What a defeat for the terrorism….” — Johan J

    There is a theory regarding the terrorists in Iraq.

    Some military historians, here, are seeing a possible parallel between Fallujah (and a couple of other places) and the Battle of Petersburg in the Civil War of the United States (1861-65).

    In the fall of 1864, the Confederacy was holding out, with its main army beseiged in Petersburg by Union forces under General Grant. The South was hoping on, nay, counting on, President Abraham Lincoln losing the predicted close race against the Democratic candidate General McClellan. [Note: Another war hero who had gone anti-war.]

    The South hoped that McClellan would be more amenable to peace terms. Terms that would allow their survival.

    When Lincoln WON re-election, the Southern forces moral was so deeply struck that their forces abandoned their strong defensive positions in an effort to slip away from the superior Union forces. They were pursued caught and forced to surrender, thus ending our Civil War.

    The military historians are seeing a lot of parallels to that business here, with the re-election of President Bush.

    It is thought that now, knowing that Kerry is NOT the commander-in-chief, that they face four more years of being hammered and hammered HARD, they may decide that this war is not a good idea in the first place.

    We’ll know in a couple to four months. Even now, our forces gather outside of Fallujah. I expect a major operation to irradicate the problem there in the next few days.

    Now that the election is over, Bush has a free hand to deal harshly with them, if necessary.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • GCooper

    Vela writes:

    ” If we don’t know history we’re bound to repeat the same mistakes. ”

    Precisely. Which is what makes your opinion all the more inexplicable.

    As has been pointed out time and again, the origin of this conflict lies buried in the 11th Century.

    To radical Islam, The USA is simply the latest manifestation of a mediaeval problem.

    And, of course, vice versa.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Vela
    RE: Knowing

    “You’ll never know now!” — Vela

    How about confidence is high that we are correct?

    Works for me. And me, and the millions of others who thought just like me, is the one that counts on this side of the big pond.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • We're Dooooomed!

    Vela,

    You didn’t answer my question.

    Do you want to talk about history? About repeating mistakes? Read the article I linked to, Vela. Then think of the Democratic Party convention where Jimmy Carter invited Michael Moore to sit beside him in his place of honor. Think of the political history of JF Kerry.

    That’s why Bush won.

    Fuck the Democrats. I’d rather vote for Pol Pot.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: GCooper
    RE: It’s All So Clear, Now

    “Precisely. Which is what makes your opinion all the more inexplicable.” — GCooper to Vela

    Not if Vela really doesn’t care about history, but only pulling whatever phrase they want to support their agenda. And I doubt if that agenda includes rational thought supporting US.

    This is Latter-Day-Bolshevik tripe we’re dealing with here.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [It's deja vu, all over again.]

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: We’re Doooooomed!
    RE: But of Course

    “Fuck the Democrats. I’d rather vote for Pol Pot.” — We’re Dooooooooomed!

    With Pol Pot, at least you know what you’re getting. With Kerry? Who knows? I doubt if even he could tell you.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Vela

    To Chuck

    Works for me. And me, and the millions of others who thought just like me, is the one that counts on this side of the big pond.

    Don’t pretend to change your opinion.

    Regards

  • I notice that Vela has not denied the allegation that she believes international Jewry has caused America to wage war in Iraq. Right, she’s off of the Christmas card list and on the fruitcake list.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Vela
    RE: Changes, They Keep Coming Round

    “Don’t pretend to change your opinion.” — Vela

    What’s the matter? Getting confused? Must be those games you play with words and phrases, catching up with you. Because I’ve not changed a thing in my mind.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Scipio
    RE: Vela

    “Right, she’s off of the Christmas card list and on the fruitcake list.” — Scipio

    You really know how to hurt a body. Remind me not to answer your questions directed at me.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    Errata: Strike the “not” in the reminder request.

  • Vela

    I have nothing to prove.

    I’ll visit you in a few months.

  • GCooper

    Vela writes:

    “I have nothing to prove.

    I’ll visit you in a few months.”

    What’s the emoticon for flouncing out in a huff?

  • Mike

    “I’ll visit you in a few months.”

    Is it just me, or was that a creepy non sequitur?

  • EddieP

    “By responding so predictably to all his provocations the US is now trapped in a costly downward spiral from which there’s no easy way out.”

    Oh woe is me, does that mean that OBL has won?

    Would you rather trade places with OBL or GWB?

    Another Dumbass Republican

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Mike
    RE: Vela’s Crypt(ic) Statement

    “Is it just me, or was that a creepy non sequitur?” — Mike

    Could be. Could be…

    Great. I’ll get out the wolfbane and the garlic and the ACP. We’ll have a positively ripping time.

    Or, maybe she’s upset about not getting a Christmas card this year?

    Either way, it’s an interesting development. I think we’ve touchéd a nerve here. A rather telling touch(é) at that.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    P.S. Did I just hear a faint cry of “And that goes for your little dog too”?

    Better get a bucket of water too.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Vela
    RE: History Lessons Part II

    So you are aware that this ‘war’ has been going on for over a very long time.

    Some think the 10th Century. Personally, I see it as late 8th Century. I say this because of the Morish invasion and occupation of Spain.

    Remember, Charlemagne defeated their move into France at the Battle of Toulon, c. 802. That would be early 9th Century.

    So forget about 10th or 11th Century. That’s the beginning of the Crusades, the European counter-offensive.

    So, it would seem that you are for perpetuating the war-without-end business? Not the way most of US think of dealing with war.

    I encountered someone over at the Daily Ablution who seemed to be bragging about the numerous wars the English have had with the French. I think that fighting an enemy time and time again for the same reasons is extremely stupid.

    You seem to be projecting when you suggest that we foolish people have fallen into a trap of Osama’s design. You’d keep fighting this same war for centuries without end. Whereas with US we’d rather finish it.

    The question becomes how shall we finish it?

    We could do a rather interesting combination of the Romans, Nazis and Spanish Inquisition, with a goodly ‘dash’ of hi-tech; we turn Arabia into a plain of glass, spotted with an occassional heap of slag, where a city used to stand.

    It would cost money and public opinion, but it would save a lot of American lives.

    But we aren’t doing that. Instead, we’re putting our lives on the line in order to change the course history in that region. Changing a closed, xenophobic authoritarian society into an open and modern one. And, in doing so, stop the cycle of war.

    What would you propose? Do nothing and let the cycle continue, as far as I can tell.

    Yeah. History repeats itself. Especially when people don’t do anything different.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Insanity - Doing the same thing, over and over again, hoping to get a different result.]

  • Rebecca

    I would like to point out that, as Bali and Madrid demonstrate, al-Qaeda did not declare war solely on America.

  • Thomas J. Jackson

    Poor Vela

    The election was a huge victory for the world. The Republicans gained three-four seats in the senate and increased their majority in the House. The radical agenda was defeated by 3-1 whenever the people were given a chance to vote on the radical homosexual agenda.

    Bush won the first majority in a presidential election since 1988. What is amazing is that despite the frauds the mainstream media attempted, the abuse of the system by billionaires like Soros, and even threats from the Islamofacists the American people refused to adopt a polciy of appeasement and surrender.

    The question is whether the Democrats are capable of purging themselves of the Michael Moore wing of their party and abandon their radical social, defense, and tax policies. I doubt it, in fact they will become even more Morlock like in the future.

    Get ready for Hillary in 2008. I plan to volunteer for any candidate who opposes the queen of brooms.

  • Andrew Robb

    Afraid, I have to side against the popular position on this one.

    I think the general focus on Islamic terrorism probably means you’ve been swallowing the Republican bait a little too often.

    The second largest terrorist attack ON U.S. soil was commited by a christian, Tim McVeigh. Focusing all you security measures on islamics will not protect you.

    Remember, though you beleive him to be the lesser of two evils, Bush is not a libertarian.

  • Bush isn’t a libertarian? What an amazing coincidence- neither am I!

  • Andrew Robb

    Alice,

    You should give it more thought than that. For all the griping about the liberal nanny-state posted in this disscussion there is little consideration given to the conservitive nanny-state that still exists.

    The difference between the two? Not much. Your saftey from terrorism – marginally better with Bush. The economy – probably the strongest case for Bush’s administration. Your civil liberties – thrown out the window.

    Both the Democrats and Republicans seek to perpetuate the same condition of keeping you pinned under the heel of the state. To discuss the merits of either party is to accept this.

  • Denise W

    What on earth makes you think Tim McVeigh was a Christian? That dude was no Christian. And just because David Koresh went around telling everyone he was Jesus Christ in Waco Texas a while back doesn’t make him a Christian either. They’re both just freaking crazy. BTW, I heard an investigator of that attack say there was a connection between McVeigh and an Iraqi soldier from Saddam’s Ba’athist regime. If that was so, it’s funny nothing was done about it under Clinton’s administration. It’s funny to me that so many people think Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. WMD’s or not. And it’s a funny thing the media has been hush hush about that.

  • Andrew Robb

    Denise,

    So if the bad guy’s an arab he’s a terroist and if he’s white he’s crazy?

    Terroists generally have a poor grasp of Islam. Most often a casual student of the koran can rip their rhetoric too shreds. OBL is as much a muslim as Koresh was a christian, or McVeigh for that matter. Their religion is beside the point. I mean to sugest that many posting here are falling into the bandwagon fallicy when it comes to Islamic terroism.

    As far as the connection between OKC and Iraq goes. I think you’re grasping at straws. I’ll have to see it to believe it.

  • You cannot negotiate with a rabid dog – but Kerry would have tried.

    OK, let’s say he had tried. What do you think would have happened? He would have lost whatever support he had from the American public, the Congress would be against it, most newspapers would even be against it, and he might even face impeachment.

    OTOH, there’s very little check on Bush’s power. What exactly is going to keep Bush from doing what he wants even if it’s the wrong thing? He’s going to have to really step over the line to face opposition.

  • Denise W

    McVeigh was as much a terrorist as the Arabs were on 9/11. They are one and the same to me. Race dosen’t make a difference and I never said that it did.

  • Denise W

    I just think they’re all crazy.

  • Andrew Robb

    Agreed. Religion has very little to do with it. Most terrorism is about power not religion. this is true of OBL and McVeigh, Koresh might have actually thought he was Jesus and really been F**King crazy.

    Islamic Terroists want a hardline Islamic state and they want anti-americanism because it helps their struggle to gain control of the middle east. They use Islam as window dressing to gain support and sympathy from those who would otherwise condemn their actions.

    Bush used Islam as a boogieman to win some of his support in the election. He won some of his vote from what amounts to nothing less than a glorified protection racket. Vote for me or the Islamic Terrorist will come get us all.

    I don’t like that, I don’t think we should celebrate it and I don’t think we should accept it. Sure safety comes first but, as the Lonewacko said, if Kerry had tried to do anything to compromise our security, the senate, house and the american public would have been on him like white on rice.

    Swallowing what Bush spoons out leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

  • GCooper

    Andrew Robb writes:

    “Most terrorism is about power not religion”

    Indeed. However, the threat faced by the West from radical Islam, clearly is – and it is not a new one, suddenly sprung into being because of George Bush.

    It seems to me that several commentators have allowed their innate dislike of Bush and his domestic policies to overcome all the historical and international evidence.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: A Fisking

    “Your saftey from terrorism – marginally better with Bush.” — Andrew Robb

    Yeah. It’s like comparing the approach US use and the Spaniards approach.

    I hear they’re rounding up islamists who were working plans to attack thousands at their Real stadium during a packet soccer match.

    Spain collapsed in the face of terrorism. And what has it gained them? More terrorism. The Islamists want Andalusia back. Too bad for the Spaniards that they live there.

    “The economy – probably the strongest case for Bush’s administration.” — Andrew Robb

    And it’s going to get better too. You saw what happened on 2 November, when it looked like Kerry might be winning. The market staggered. Now it’s rebounding.

    “Your civil liberties – thrown out the window.” — Andrew Robb

    Yeah. The jack-booted thugs just came and carried away the family next door. I guess I’ll be next.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Libertarians

    “You should give it more thought than that [being a Libertarian, it would appear.]” — Andrew Robb to Alice

    I’ll chime in here. No thank you. I discovered they support pedophilia.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • A_t

    Chuck,
    “Spain collapsed in the face of terrorism”

    I wish people would stop saying this. If they’d ‘collapsed in the face of terrorism’, would they be rounding up the terrorists you’re talking about? Wouldn’t they be welcoming them as their new masters, as they changed the laws of spain to reflect correct Sharia rules?

    The war in Iraq is part of *one* approach to the terrorist threat which is by no means proved to be effective & which us Europeans are in no way obliged to believe in. The Spanish people were dubious about it from the start, & then their government, fearing a backlash, tried to pin the blame for the atrocity on the Basques.

    Lying for party political purposes about so serious a national event is good cause to boot your government out if ever i’ve heard one. Do you disagree? Do you think the Spanish should have shown ‘fortitude’ & reelected a bunch of exploitative scumbags who had deliberately misled the country about an issue of extreme importance for their own personal gain?

    Whether the Spanish would have been cowed by the attacks we will never know because by all accounts the main force driving their election result was mistrust of the incumbent government due to their atrocious & dishonourable handling of the aftermath of the bombings. They deserved to get kicked out. You think they should still be in? I seriously hope you wouldn’t put up with such behaviour from your own government.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Collapsed

    “I wish people would stop saying this.” — A_t

    Truth hurts doesn’t it.

    ” If they’d ‘collapsed in the face of terrorism’, would they be rounding up the terrorists you’re talking about?” — A_t

    Yes. Because they aren’t quite dead yet. And the Islamists still want Andalusia. And France. And Italy. And Austria. And Germany. And Holland. And Denmark. And Norway. And Sweden. And Finland. And Chechnya……..

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Our Friends in Fallujah
    RE: Knock. Knock….

    The prep-fires begin.

    US Jets Pound Fallujah

    Be with you shortly.

    Regards,

    US Armed Forces in Iraq

  • Andrew Robb

    To: GCooper
    Re: Innate Dislike

    It seems to me that several of our commentators have allowed their innate liking of Mr. Bush’s statist veiws to overcome all historical and international evedence.

  • Andrew Robb

    To: Chuckle
    Re: A Fisking?

    Most toothless one I’ve seen to date I’m afraid. Stick to jokes, you’re much better at those.

    On Civil Liberties:

    Point one: The patriot act.

    Point two: open support of gay marragie bans.

    On Safety:

    Most of the apparatus that now protects us has already been created or established. It would take a bill introduced by Mr. Kerry to change the policy’s of or for that matter dismantle something like the DHS. Do you really think congress wold be stupid enough to let it pass?

    Kery would not have been given the opportunity to cave, Not if he wanted to keep his job.

    Re: Pedophilia

    Why am I not suprised?

  • GCooper

    Andrew Robb writes:

    “It seems to me that several of our commentators have allowed their innate liking of Mr. Bush’s statist veiws to overcome all historical and international evedence.”

    Thus proving what we might have suspected all along: that whatever people actually write, you read only what you want to believe they say

    The overwhelming majority of posters to this blog who have welcomed Bush’s re-election have done so because of his steadfastness against radical Islam.

    The “statist” policies which so exercise you have been condemned by many.

    The difference is they understand there is a war on and that in such times you have to make awkward choices. In this case, supporting a strong figurehead for the West, instead of some wannabe European social democrat – even if it means having to endure some of his less pleasant ideas.

    It’s a matter of priorities. Though I appreciate that level of pragmatism tends to be unpalatable to Left-liberals.

  • Andrew Robb

    GCooper,

    There’s a war on? Gee, I missed that.

    As far as pragmatism goes I’m as pragmatic as the next guy, seeing as how I’m using the war effort to help pay for college. Been there, done that.

    Liberalism has nothing to do with it. Had Kerry been the victor I would still be here, posting on the evils of his administration. It’s not the left I support, I support Liberty. It’s both Left and Right I wish to do away with.

    I shudder to think that you and so many others have voluntairly chained your veiws to Bush’s in the name of your saftey and the war effort. It’s one thing to think he’s a better bet for a safe America, but quite another to fully accept his positions just because you do.

    It’s one thing to consider him the lesser of two evils, It’s quite another to volunteer to have your freedoms trampled because you consider him “the greater victory.”

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Fisking Again

    “Point one: The patriot act.” — Andrew Robb

    See earlier post. They’re hauling US away by the truckload.

    “Point two: open support of gay marragie bans.” — Andrew Robb

    I support support keeping marriage as a man and a woman. So do lots of others. That doesn’t trash civil liberties. Nor civil unions, bucko.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Andrew Robb

    Gcooper writes –

    “Thus proving what we might have suspected all along: that whatever people actually write, you read only what you want to believe they say”

    Actually, a quick re-read of your posts reveals you have little to say anyway, just that Islamic Terrorists are coming to get us all. So what’s the point in listening? Chuckle actually produced better arguments than you did.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Not Surprised?

    “Why am I not suprised?” — Andrew Robb

    About what, that Libertarians support pedophilia? Well, I would guess it’s because you already knew it.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Safety

    The difference between the safety US has and that the Spaniards don’t is that US treats it as a war. They’z treats it as a police matter. They’z even admitted to it after 3/11, when their police said they had been watching the activities of the perps but since they had not done anything illegal they could do nothing to stop them from killing 200 and wounding 1000.

    Well….after the event, they could arrest them, at last. Too bad it was too late.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [The best defense is a good offense.]

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Civil Liberties, Again….

    …They’re Being Trashed!

    “It’s quite another [thing] to volunteer to have your freedoms trampled because you consider him “the greater victory.”

    Even as I type, there is some guy with jack-boots, a black uniform and a gun here with me, making sure I type what is good for Bush. If I don’t do it, he’ll kill my cat.

    I hear such reports all the time, from all walks of life in this land. It’s a tyranny. And they won’t even let me get my gun to protect myself. Funny thing that. I can have guns while the Brits can’t.

    Why is that? And why do they even let me have access to an unfiltered internet? China and Iran know better than that.

    I’m surprised that your government even lets you near a computer, what with your obvious anti-statist attitudes.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    P.S. Tell me when you get arrested for expressing your opinions, compadre.

  • Andrew Robb

    To: All
    Re: Not listening

    Chuckle and GCooper,

    I’ll never convince you. I’ll never sway you opninon in the slightest. I congratulate you on the courage and depth of your conviction. May you sleep well with it.

    To All Others,

    Gcooper accuse me of not listening to the force and reason of his arguments. Yet he still insists on using the term Islamic Terroists as the great evil which should unite us behind Bush and make loosing freedoms okay. That’s been his argument from the start and he still swings it like a truncheon to this moment. He makes the same point repeatedly in the hopes that I’ll either beleive it based on force or repitition or just go away.

    Chuckle, who actually had something to say, has run out of arguments and resorted to his humor to get by on. He’s now telling me what he supports as if we should make it a law based on his holding that veiw.

    There’s just nothing there to listen too. Try something new.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Don’t Listen To Me….

    …Either.

    “…little to say anyway, just that Islamic Terrorists are coming to get us all.” — Andrew Robb

    Cause that’s what I say to. I guess you haven’t finished re-reading all of my posts as yet. I do tend to be a bit more lengthy and active than GCooper, here.

    “So what’s the point in listening?” — Andrew Robb

    None, unless you’re willing to accept what is said. Or at least offer rational argument opposing it. So far, I haven’t seen very much of that from you. Feeble claims of violations of civil liberties (from a libertarian) are like little children crying “Wolf!” And not a pawprint on the ground, let alone some spoor for them to play with, to prove their claim.

    As I see it, Libertarians think that stopping pedophiles from offering candy and a ‘ride’ to children is a violation of their civil liberties. So your claims are looked upon with suspicion.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Got proof?]

  • Andrew Robb

    To: GCooper and Chuckle
    Re: No need I’ll say it for you

    What’s the emoticon for flouncing out in a huff?

    Regards (of a sort)

  • GCooper

    Andrew Robby writes:

    ” He makes the same point repeatedly in the hopes that I’ll either beleive it based on force or repitition or just go away.”

    Actually, it was in the hope that you’d get over your bout of hysterics and actually address the issue.

    Too much to hope, obviously.

    Still, drop us a line from the gulag when the evil tyrant Bush’s secret police cart you away, won’t you?

  • A_t

    Chuck,

    I enjoy the way you utterly ignore any points I make to make silly jokes instead. I presume then you have no comeback at all.

    I ask again, do you think, given that the incumbent government had attempted to mislead them over the true perpetrators of the terrorist attacks for political gain, that the Spanish should have reelected their lying leaders? Would you have done the same if Bush had tried to cover up the true identity of the 9/11 terrorists? I sincerely hope not. If you would have though, by all means proceed with your childish attacks on the character of the Spanish people.

  • Andrew Robb

    To: GCooper
    Re: Hysterics

    Yes, yes, Hysterics. I’m now running around the room looking for a place to hide from the jack booted thugs you talk about. That’s why it’s so hard to type.

    Keep up the good fight, Mr. Cooper. One day every one will decide the president on the basis of who can make scarier threats.

  • Andrew Robb

    P.S.

    It’s pretty funny you keep up with the jack-booted thugs bit, considering I am one of the jack-booted thugs.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Glad I Brightened Your Day

    “I enjoy the way you utterly ignore any points I make to make silly jokes instead.” — A_t

    RE: Don’t Be Presumptous

    “I presume then you have no comeback at all.” — A_t

    There are only so many hours in a day. I may have eight computers around and about, but I’ve only two hands on which to type them. [Note: Still working on speech recognition....as an interim stage towards Lieutenant Barclay's direct interface with the main computer. THEN, I can be all things to all the likes of you.]

    RE: I’ve Got a Break in the Action

    “…do you think, given that the incumbent government had attempted to mislead them over the true perpetrators of the terrorist attacks for political gain, that the Spanish should have reelected their lying leaders?” — A_t

    Clarify “incumbant government”. Do you mean the one in power on 3/11? Or the one in power now?

    If the former, where is your proof that they lied? That, too, if the latter.

    “Would you have done the same if Bush had tried to cover up the true identity of the 9/11 terrorists?” — A_t

    Non-sequitor, as bin Laden has confessed to being the perp. Therefore a ‘silly queston’. I don’t care to waste my time dealing with silly people. I’ve got more important work to do….[I'm trying to take over the world.]

    “If you would have though, by all means proceed with your childish attacks on the character of the Spanish people.” — A_t

    I’m not the one asking silly questions. And as for the Spaniards being cowards, they voted in an appeasement government, did they not? That’s hardly what anyone in their right mind would call a ‘childish attack’. That is unless you think the truth is childish.

    I guess I was right in replying as I had in the first instance of this engagement. Should have had faith in my intuition with regards to this one.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Interesting

    “It’s pretty funny you keep up with the jack-booted thugs bit…” — Andrew Robb, in a P.S. to GCooper

    Looks to me like your playmates have been kicking you in the head a wee bit too hard, Andrew, as you’re replying to GCooper thinking he’s the one talking about jack-booted thugs. While, I’m the one who keeps mentioning them.

    Better seek help. Or stronger coffee.

    RE: Jack-Booted Thugs R You

    “…, considering I am one of the jack-booted thugs.” — Andrew Robb, in a P.S. to GCooper

    Personally, I prefer my jump boots. Much more comfortable.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [God is alive....and airborne-ranger qualified.]

  • Chuck Pelto

    P.S. Are you REALLY a jack-booted thug?

    Interesting. My intuitive powers must be increasing. Need to refine that one interface…..

  • Jack Boots

    Chuck,

    I’m USAF. Not really jack booted but in the same family. Cooper mentioned

    “the evil tyrant Bush’s secret police”

    But jack-booted thugs has a nice ring to it.

  • A_t

    Hookay Chuckie, one more…

    I was referring to the govt. at the time of the attacks. They rapidly issued a statment blaming ETA. You clearly weren’t paying attention at the time, so here you go

    “There is no doubt Eta is responsible,” said Spain’s interior minister.

    “no doubt”

    Now, tell me again, if you were Spanish, would you have re-elected the lying little shit & his friends?

    (i await your ‘but I’m not spanish, so that’s a silly question’ answer :))

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: USAF?

    “I’m USAF. Not really jack booted but in the same family.” — Andrew Robb

    Yeah. Right. I’m an Air Force brat, bucko. SAC. Did the Cuban thing at Ground Zero (Offutt AFB), bags stacked by the door. Dad was a combat crew commander at an ICBM site, outside of town.

    I’m a retired light colonel of infantry, myself. Two tours 82d Airborne Division.

    Air Force is “jack booted” like the Nazi-SS wore tutus on parade.

    Either your credibility is slipping, fast, or you’re a Ranger wannabe. And a bad one at that. [Note: "Bad" here is not a "good" thing.]

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Time Enough (for Silliness)

    “I await your ‘but I’m not spanish, so that’s a silly question’ answer :)”

    The main machine is crunching numbers for a while….so why not….

    First off, you’re right. I’m not a Spaniard. I don’t even know enough Spanish to order a taco. A beer? Yes. Anything else, nope.

    It’s a personal problem of mine. When I complete the computer interface, I’ll learn Spanish a lot faster.

    RE: The Horrible Lie

    “”There is no doubt Eta is responsible,” said Spain’s interior minister.” — A_t

    Yeah. That’s really a killer lie. I do recall an early analysis of the explosives used in the mass murder as being of the sort that ETA had used in the past.

    Was this statement made before or after the election? I suspect before, when everyone was rather “upset”.

    As I’ve learned from some time in the military, I try to hold off answering serious questions until I have all the information I need to make a sound statement. Most politicans do not have that flexibility. Especially with the press hounding them.

    So you consider THIS to be the damning ‘lie’?

    Thanks. That helps me understand you quite a bit better.

    But it doesn’t change my understanding of the Spaniards being gutless cowards.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Voting Preference

    “Now, tell me again, if you were Spanish, would you have re-elected the lying little shit & his friends?” — A_t

    I can understand their making a mistake based on what I commented to above. Especially if that mistake was made in the circumstances I recall of the early stages after the attack. [Note: The Date-Time Group on the BBC article you cite is only a few hours after the attack.]

    People make “mistakes”. I guess you would call such mistakes “lies”, as it would suit your political purposes.

    Would I vote for a pro-active, take-the-fight-to-the-enemy government? Over a bend-over-and-let-them-rape-you one?

    You betcha. As I see your ‘lie’ as a ‘mistake’. You call their mistake a ‘lie’, for your nefarious purposes.

    If I ever catch YOU in a ‘mistake’, have a care…..

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • limberwulf

    putting my dog in the fight:

    RE: Spain

    Some of the Spanish voted in fear, just as some Americans did. Regardless of which way the fearful voted, it was a poor motivation, as fear does not inspire clear thought, nor does it generally include the full range of issues in the process of choosing a candidate. Those Spaniards who voted to remove the current regime for dishonesty may have made the correct choice, but again, a reactive vote is a poor one. Voting should not be a punishment tool, nor should it be merely a vote against. The frying pan is bad, you should get out, but be sure you mind the fire.

    RE: Terrorists

    Terrorists are those who engage in violence to encite fear and thereby gain power. Any such persons hsould be destroyed or stopped. I do not think that such actions should or could be prevented without infringing too heavily on freedom. The best defense is a good offense. I do not like the preventive actions of Bush, but Kerry had proposed equal and greater preventative measures, and little offense. This would have been a mistake. OTOH, the WOT is not the only issue at hand, and those who have terrorism blinders on, despite the importance of that issue, may find that when it is over they have been pushed into a corner they do not like.

    RE: The greater victory

    I tend to be an idealist, which is why I voted LP. I am also a realist in some ways, which is why I put up with the foolishness that is in the LP platform. I also am enough of a realist to salute those who cheer Bush as the greater victory. In the real world of probable winning options, Bush was by far the lesser of two evils. Those who continue criticism and point out how far from the ideal we are also deserve credit for their position. Those who think Kerry would have been the lesser of two evils I question, tho largely on the basis of my previously discussed position that economic freedom is in the long run more important than social freedom.

    RE: Management

    In my experience, leaders need to be consistent. In America, people make the difference, not the goernment. The population does far more for the success of any country than the government. People can deal with what they can predict and prepare for even if it is bad, far better than they can deal with inconsistency and unpredictability, this is why Kerry would have been a poor choice, even disregarding his history of socialist thinking and poor choices.

    RE: Idealism

    Just another note on that subject. Ideals are important to make sure that we stay on the correct path. If you lose sight of your ideal in the process of finding the next step, you tend to go very wrong, ask any tightrope walker. OTOH, I am willing to take a lesson from Milton Friedman. Friedman has proposed such things as school vouchers and negative income taxes, in spite of the fact that these things do not reflect his ideals. These are interum steps, though far from the goal of getting government out of the education and welfare business. Compromise is worth it, so long as that compromise is done with the goal in sight and the level of compromise minimalized. You don’t win a chess game in a single move, it takes a series of them, and often there are losses.

  • A_t

    Chuckie oh Chuckie,
    “Would I vote for a pro-active, take-the-fight-to-the-enemy government? Over a bend-over-and-let-them-rape-you one?”

    Would anyone vote for the 2nd option? This is a stupid question, & neither the losing nor the winning party were proposing anything of the sort. No country with a shred of dignity or self-belief would vote for the latter. (& you’ll probably go on to tell me that the spanish do… whatever)

    “taking the fight” to a country with few links to the kind of international terrorism we’re fighting here, in the hope that a wave of democracy will sweep the middle-east is one tactic. You happen to agree with it, which is all fine & dandy, but it’s part of a far-fetched scheme which *may* succeed but equally could backfire & make the situation much worse. We as allies are under no obligation to sign up to crackpot large-scale experiments in reshaping the world. Being reticent about taking part in this experiment hardly means we’re spreading our cheeks & waiting for hot terrorist cock action.

    But by all means, keep going on about soft europeans all you like if it pleases you. Have you been here? Met many Europeans? I find american stereotypes of us bizarre; you often seem to base them entirely on our intellectual elites. If we did the same to the US, you’d look effeminate & weak too. I’d be interested to see you in a pub in Glasgow or Newcastle, or maybe a bar near the docks in Marseille, checking out the “euro-weenies” there.

    As for the spanish govt’s “mistake” as you put it, a fair number of people certainly didn’t see it that way, & since when has “we are looking into who the perpetrators were” in the aftermath of an attack been an unsatisfactory response? I certainly make mistakes, & make assertions in casual conversation which may turn out to be bullshit, but in any formal professional situation I’m careful not to assert things for which I have no evidence, or things I’m currently looking into, as the definitive truth. Being under pressure for a solution doesn’t change that. I don’t think it unreasonable to expect politicians in responsible positions to be at least as careful as I am.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Funny

    “Would anyone vote for the 2nd option? This is a stupid question, & neither the losing nor the winning party were proposing anything of the sort.” — A_t

    That’s what the Spaniards did. They just haven’t realized it yet. We can go into the number of rapes that are going on already there, the newly decided upon funding of Islamic institutions and activities would be a good example. It’s been enacted since the new government came into power and it’s pure, unadulterated appeasement.

    You don’t care to admit to that? Fine by me. Not my problem. Nor are the problems that the Spaniards, not to mention the rest of foundering Europe, have invited upon themselves.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • A_t

    Chuck,
    Ah well.. all we can do is wait & see how it pans out in the long term. In a way, maybe it’s good having two approaches; one of them might be right. (or the combination of them; certainly I think behind the scenes there’s a fair amount of cooperation & the US bad cop/europe good cop approach to the ME may be productive, provided we’re on loosely the same side).

    Do you have a link to the funding of islamic institutions story though? I must admit i’ve not heard anything about this, but offhand, it would make sense to perhaps encourage mainstream muslims & make them feel that they have an ally in the Spanish state, so as to prevent them becoming seduced by extremists. On the other hand it could be pure (pointless) appeasement…

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Call Me….

    “…a fair amount of cooperation & the US bad cop/europe good cop approach to the ME may be productive” — A_t

    …when Chirac apologizes for his rebuke of Bush’s olive branch yesterday.

    RE: European ‘Good Cop’?

    Are those the ones who arrest YOU for defending your home and family against an intruder?

    You can have em. They seem to me to be the worst form of ‘law enforcement’.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    P.S. By the by….

    We are not in Iraq and Afghanistan as ‘police’ to enforce the ‘law’. We are there as soldiers to kill the enemy that would kill US, given the chance.

    There IS a difference. As I mentioned earlier regarding the Spaniards’ approach to dealing with terrorism after 3/11, vis-a-vis the approach US takes. If you can’t recognize that, you’ve got a serious personal problem. Deal with it….

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t RE: Funding

    Had it a tad backwards in this one….

    Funding for Church to be Slashed by Spanish

    The key point in this article relates to the newly installed Spanish government breaking with the (in)famous millenia old relationship be the Roman Catholic Church and the Spanish people.

    But not so backwards here….

    Spain Is Seeking to Integrate Growing Muslim Population

    Now, I think integration is a great idea. However, it takes two to tango. From the looks of the fiascos occuring in France, Holland, Sweden and Norway, if the Spaniards follow their appraoch, and it looks like they are, it will not work, because the Muslims want to lead.

    Hope that helps….

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    P.S. These were found by a simple Google search.

  • A_t

    I’m dealing quite happily thanks Chuck; things ain’t going exactly as I’d like, but hey… c’est la vie :)

  • A_t

    Well… I heartily approve of them having less links with the Catholic church which I find a sinister institution anyway, & I see little that’s alarming in wanting to try & make sure people who live in Spain, whatever their religion might be, feel they have a stake in the country. I personally don’t believe any significant number of the muslims there want to ‘take over’ the country, & if they feel like it’s ‘their’ country then young people are unlikely to be dissatisfied & want to replace it.

    Given that muslims *do* live there as legitimate residents, I’m curious to know what you would suggest the Spanish do. Ignore the entire issue & see what happens? Intern or banish all muslims? Shore up the Catholic church & demand that everyone pay fealty to Jesus?

    (& for your information, regarding European integration ‘fiascos’, I’ve lived in France & have associated quite happily with ‘muslims’ who were ostensibly such but basically operated like most ‘christians’ & didn’t behave much different from the norm, from Morocco & Algeria who had integrated quite happily. In the UK where I presently live I have shopped in muslim-run shops & taken muslim-driven cabs etc. etc. as well as studying alongside young men of muslim origin. They have mostly seemed as much a part of mainstream society as anyone else. Certainly there are problems, & I’m not ignoring that, but I feel you may have an exaggerated view of how significant they are, fuelled by press reports & the views of certain blog posters.)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Missing the Point, You Are?

    “I heartily approve of them having less links with the Catholic church which I find a sinister institution anyway, & I see little that’s alarming in wanting to try & make sure people who live in Spain, whatever their religion might be….” — A_t

    I figured you would.

    So I won’t bother trying to explain it to you in any depth. It probably would be a waste of time.

    Suffice it to say that, vis-a-vis the second item, maybe the terrorists who were plotting the murder of thousands at the Real Stadium, wanted to ‘instill’ a desire on the part of the new Spanish government to reconsider their withholding of funds to build that new mosque.

    We’ll see. Care to place a small wager?

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: The Legals

    “Given that muslims *do* live there as legitimate residents, I’m curious to know what you would suggest the Spanish do.” — A_t

    Isn’t it obvious? Or are you just playing at being obtuse again?

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: You and Senator Kerry….

    “Certainly there are problems, & I’m not ignoring that, but I feel you may have an exaggerated view of how significant they are….” — A_t

    …Or, Terrorism as a “Nuisance”, European Style.

    I’m sure that the muslims who supported the murder of Theo van Gogh will agree with you.

    “Nothing to see here, folks. Move on…..”

    I found it an interesting touch that the Muslim who reportedly perpetrated this act of personal violence in the name of his religious beliefs found it necessary to stake his written manifesto to the body of the victim with a knife.

    [Note: I'm still curious about that "pregnant camels" business I've heard reported. Anybody got a good translation from Dutch to English? If it reads the way I think it might, some people are going to come up with some intersting ways of addressing the perps ilk.]

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

  • Chuck Pelto

    P.S. Not that I had not heard the supposed appellation before, but this incident will certainly drive the point home.

  • Chuck Pelto

    P.P.S. Tell me, A_t, am I ‘exaggerating’ here? About the note and the knife?

  • Jack Boots

    Chuck,

    I’m less than concered about your opinion of my credibility.

    As far as wanting to be a Ranger goes, If I had wanted to be a Ranger I’d have enlisted in the army.

    As far as the jack booted thugs go (being one or being afraid of them) not too worried about it, but the screen name has kind of grown on me. Thanks for the idea.

    Andrew

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Jack Boots

    “As far as the jack booted thugs go (being one or being afraid of them) not too worried about it, but the screen name has kind of grown on me. ” — Andrew Robb

    If you like that, you’ll love Richard III. It’s available on DVD, you know. I was particularly impressed with the way he morphs the uniform from traditional Royal Army olive brown to Fascist black through the course of the film.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Imitation is the highest form of flattery.]

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: A Strange Silence

    I asked you whether or not I was ‘exaggerating’ about the note, the knife and the body in Holland.

    Don’t bother answering. It’s apparent I was not ‘exaggerating’. And the Dutch can recognize a grisly gauntlet throw down on their doorstep.

    THE HAGUE — The Dutch government yesterday vowed tough measures against what a leading politician called “the arrival of jihad in the Netherlands” after a death threat to a Dutch lawmaker was found spiked with a knife to the body of a slain filmmaker by his radical Muslim attacker.

    Here’s the link

    Keep your silence, compadre. Better men than you are prepared for this fight. Today, they cordon off Fallujah. I wish I were there with them.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [To my comrades-in-arms in Iraq....Good hunting and good luck. Don't be too over-confident.]

  • Jack Boots

    TO: Chuck
    RE: Imitation

    If it helps you sleep better……..

    Andrew

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: I Sleep Fine

    “If it helps you sleep better……..” — Andrew Robb

    I think I’m capable of dealing with jihadis or jack-booted thugs. The question is….are they ready for me?

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [One need not be armed in order to be dangerous. -- Some Buddhist I studied under in my enlisted days.]

  • Chuck Pelto

    P.S. It beat the heck out of spending all my time and money going through the school of hard knocks in Combat Alley, Fayetteville, NC in the early 70s.

  • Jack Boots

    To: Chuck
    Re: Holy S**t!!

    Buddist studies are on my reading list as of late but I haven’t gotten very far yet.

    As far as the rest of it goes, be careful, you keep making sense like that and we might actually agree on something. ;-)

    Andrew

  • A_t

    “Given that muslims *do* live there as legitimate residents, I’m curious to know what you would suggest the Spanish do.” — A_t

    Isn’t it obvious? Or are you just playing at being obtuse again?

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)

    It’s not at all obvious to me. Please explain.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Andrew Robb
    RE: Forget the Buddhists….

    “Buddist studies are on my reading list as of late but I haven’t gotten very far yet.” — Andrew Robb

    ….except as an ancillary study in how NOT to do things. Been there. Done that. They’re somewhat ‘confused’. Hence their confused philosophy. Things are not as complex as they would like to believe.

    However, their martial arts training IS ‘superb’. [Note: Always had a warm place in my heart for 'functional art'.]

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Guns? We doon need no steenking guns.....]

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: A_t
    RE: Education….

    “It’s not at all obvious to me. Please explain.” — A_t

    I wasn’t put here to educate people who refuse to learn.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [One of the key aspects of learning is critical observation. What works? What doesn't? Why?]

  • Chuck Pelto

    P.S. I think you’re supposed to say, “Touché”, here.

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: Our Friends in Fallujah
    RE: Here We Come….

    …move’n down the street;
    give’n plenty of c— to any fool we meet.

    The interim government has declared martial law.

    The CG has given his “drive-on” speech.

    We’ll be with you in the morning.

    Regards,

    US Armed Forces in Iraq
    1st Marine Expeditionary Force
    Special Reps
    [Let's dance.....]

  • Chuck Pelto

    TO: All
    RE: The Dance…

    …it has begun.

    We’ve stepped on the toes of the Baathist die-hards in Fallujah.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Puppetmasters! Free men are coming to kill you. -- Robert A. Heinlein, The Puppetmasters.]

  • A_t

    Chuck,
    I apologise that my pansy-ass liberal education didn’t have an ‘opinions of trolls’ section. Now, do you actually have any idea what the Spanish should do, or are you just trolling? If you have an idea, state it. If not, shut up.

  • god-well part time anyway

    What a mess: well its sunday, winter time, grannie was in the local conservative association and used to buy food from a certain grocery in grantham, here goes the swan dive into the abyss (with any luck i’ll hit my head on the bottom and die instantly). “Splosh”
    Chuck pelto me old sausage, i’ll start with you not out of spite but you’ve just put alot of postings.
    1. Which countries had combat experience in the 1980′s (South Africa, Argentina, UK, USSR and the Afghans right? you know in proper wars where there was a 50% chance of loss like angola, falklands and russian invasion of afghanistan) American hasnt had a real fight since vietnam, you played them on home soil and lost, youre playing on home soil in iraq and afghanistan and judging by youre postings cutting things far too fine!!!!! – you behave like a bunch of nutters and sure as night follows day you’ll will just create another generation of bin ladens and hussains.
    2. 1st Marine expedtionary force: forgive my lack of geographical knowledge of the centre of iraq but isnt fallujja along way from the seaside? Wouldnt armoured chaps with tanks or the airborne be better? You need chaps on the ground, just sending in special forces simply shows you arent in control of the situation and want or think you are in for a quick victory.
    3. I wouldnt yell too loudly about what you are going to do either, careless talk costs lives they used to say in uk in ww2. It doesnt look big or clever either.
    The arab chaps would probably just take one look at what you had written (or the dodgy pimps and hoes site i found linked to this blog with some berk called seymour) and they wouldnt need recruitment drives for volunteers! Most of the bright ones will probably know quite a bit of english and about youre cultures and extremes of wealth and poverty.
    4. I wouldnt slag off the europeans either, again it doesnt make you look big or clever. I mean george bush 1 managed to get most of europe, the developed world and many of the middle eastern countries involved in the first gulf war in ’91 (it was about the only thing i thought he got right). What went wrong this time, why steam in there like a bunch of nutters on friday night without europe, australisia, saudi arabia, israel, egypt and jordan? Most arabs think sadddam and bin laden were dodgy, but because you didnt respect there wishes and listen to them they are probably now very luke warm to the conflict.
    There are ways and means of doing things sensibly. Sept 11th was big, people all over the world needed to focus after it: Usa needed to win over europe and the rest of the world, but it hasnt.
    People all over the world would be effected by terrorist acts too, so like it or not you need to be absolutely professional.
    Just being over zeolous and using long words and military ancronisms doesnt make tough: sometimes its the people that have been through hell and back (i have met two family friends who were in the concerntration camps of world war 2) that are the most focused, sensible and grounded (know where they are coming from and what needs to be done)
    5. Alot of europeans were very upset about the way USA dragged its heals in the 1990′s over Bosnia and Kosovo, alot of attrocities against muslims and croats could have been prevented if you had got involved earlier and been more decisive. The stories now about human trafficking and how US took too long to decide on airstrikes to prevent some of the ethnic cleansing have really upset alot of europeans too. Clinton wasnt perfect but alot of europeans were impressed with the way he tried to bring peace in Northern Ireland, again many now think bush hasnt even started there.
    Chuck i aint completely slating you or US but you need to get youre act together. The Middle east has been a problem area for centuries, over use of violence will merely create more retaliations. The campaign could have been started alot better, you’ve got to live with day to day, but an eye for an eye wont get anywhere.
    Sometimes there are alot of people in life that dont understand when one person thinks they are at there weakest, often thats when they are the most strong.
    If bush got off his ass about welfare and created a fairer usa then alot more people would listen to him and america. If he just shots iraq to pieces and does nothing about drugs, porn and facists well you (and the rest of the world) will just be in Vietnam II, and most neutrals will think you are just there for the oil and to maintain corporate interests.
    (Ps No i do not have combat experince, i’ve seen handguns,semi automatics,rifles and shotguns since 1988, have family that do (and experience of fatalities), have met about 30-40 serving troops with that now and some europeans with it, i saw berlin in 1992 after the wall came down, one street away from the red army and have had guns pointed at me twice so far (whether loaded or not i wouldnt know) and have seen the effect combat experience of world war II and conflicts since has had on family, neighbours and aquantainces over 20-30 years, which is no where near having never seen a gun or spoken to a serviceman or ex-serviceman).

  • god-well wrote:

    Alot of europeans were very upset about the way USA dragged its heals in the 1990′s over Bosnia and Kosovo, alot of attrocities against muslims and croats could have been prevented if you had got involved earlier and been more decisive.

    Rubbish… the US was the ONLY one serious about military action and it was the Europeans who were trying to do nothing meaningful (remember this(Link) disgrace by Douglas Hurd?) and eventually pushed the Brits and Frogs into getting involved, not the other way around. So who exactly were these “a lot of Europeans”? ‘Europe’ was doing jack shit before Clinton finally got off his duff and did something.