I left this comment on another place and thought I’d share it here. I was responding to an American pal – whom I normally agree with – who said the the UK’s vote for independence outside the EU was a disaster. I have jazzed it up a bit and added links. Well, it is Christmas!
The EU has become an increasingly regulated, bureaucratic entity, and while the UK tried to pull it in a different direction, the sclerosis of the continent got worse. The Single Market and “freedom of movement” aspect had their positives – up to a point. The Customs Union (external tariff wall, in other words) was a clear negative, however.
The structure of the EU is hostile to classical liberal economics in the medium term, not a plus.
The bureaucratic mission creep of the European Commission, unhampered by a largely toothless E. Parliament (it cannot initiate or repeal directives), meant the EU economy decelerated, imperceptibly at first. Its share of global GDP has shrunk and not just because other, non-European countries such as China and India have grown over the past few decades. While some of the reasons for Brexit were grounded in nationalism, which I dislike, some reasons were more classically liberal. Those reasons should not be discounted. Another point: for far too many, the ideas of free enterprise and freedom of trade became entwined, in a poisonous way, with the creation of transnational, bureaucratic structures distant from ordinary people. To that extent, the EU is part of the problem for those making the case for capitalism and open markets. When you say those words, far too many think of men and women in suits in Brussels regulating this and that, not entrepreneurship, trade and human interaction. That’s a problem.
For Americans reading this, remember that when the original 13 colonies broke free from the UK in the 1770s, they did so in part for reasons around representative government and the powers to tax with legitimate power. The EU increasingly came to the point where member states were reduced to regions of a centralising state.
Ross Clark’s Far From EUtopia is a marvellous read about Brexit, what went wrong, and more.
The argument for the UK not leaving the EU is exactly the same argument for Ireland not leaving the UK and for America not leaving the British Empire.
Pragmatically I could see a potential case to have stayed in the EU at the time. I had very little confidence that Britain’s ruling class, as it existed in 2016, would do anything close to a competent job if the referendum required them to leave the EU, and there was the risk they may go to quite some lengths to sabotage and discredit the whole thing. I don’t have any brief for David Cameron or Theresa May but their days in office almost can at times seem halcyon compared with what came after with COVID, inflation, Boriswave and Starmerism. I was always wary of the ‘global Britain’ rhetoric that came from some elements of the pro-leave campaigns, and I think some of that mentality helped make Boriswave happen. Of course the EU of 2025 is also a much uglier beast than the EU of 2016.
In terms of principle I was in favour of leaving the EU
for largely nationalistic reasons as I don’t believe in Eurofederalism and want Britain to be a sovereign state and pursue it’s own path, rather than someone else’s path, regardless of whether that someone else is Brussels, Washington or Beijing. That we need to really clear out all the current British elite out shows leaving the EU is insufficient for this purpose, but probably necessary.
I don’t want to derail the thread with sympathies for American loyalism but I like George III.
Johnathan Pearce – if only it had been independence.
We voted to leave the European Union – we voted for independence. But we got this “Brexit” thing – which means we carry on obeying the European Union and the rest of the accursed “international community”.
No one wants “Brexit” we want INDEPENDENCE – we want to control our own borders and make our own policies.
This is true, but where we’d be (and the other provinces still trapped within) had the enabling act been passed really doesn’t bear thinking about.
If you look with squinty eyes the EU has always sought to become an Empire – run by the Commission of course. While you can argue that ‘nationalism’ is not what it was it is still preferable to being merely part of a distant empire.
Well said, Paul.
DJ: A distant empire, I could maybe live with. But this one, with its Commission, Regulations, Directives, COREPER, A-Points, B-Points, false B-Points, kid-on Councils, phoney-baloney “Parliament”, and what-all else, has to go. If the British state were run along the lines of the EU, I’d be calling for its end as well.
Sam Duncan – the British state is run in much the same way as the European Union.
Policies are thought up by “experts” and pushed by officials, and politicians then rubber stamp them.
Indeed we follow the same policies as the European Union – and the rest of the “international community”.
We voted for Independence – but instead got “Brexit”.
No control over our own borders – and having to follow the regulations and policies of the European Union and the rest of the “international community”.
For most people the reason they voted for independence (not “Brexit” – a stupid, meaningless, collection of letters) was to end mass immigration.
That has not happened – mass immigration has continued since the vote against it in 2016.
The British establishment, really just the local branch of the international establishment, never had any intention of allowing the British people to end mass immigration – or following the British people in anything else.
“Democracy” – what democracy?
Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer says we have democracy – but he also says that we have Freedom of Speech.
Tell that to all the people who are arrested for their opinions.
Britain is in effect, outwith the EU, still shackled to endless trans-national treaty agreements – European Council, ECHR, UN, WEH and in particular WTO rules which limit the room for manoeuvre in a global world. This suits our PPE and Law graduate politicians of course. They can just continue swanning around on the ‘world stage’ with its endless free dinners & banquets while they do sweet FA for the common man.
Philip Aggrey – so is most of the world, and not just of the European Union.
Remember the European Union itself is only part of the “international community”.
The European Union faithfully serves certain “values” decided by “experts” – economic and social (cultural) principles.
And so do the institutions in Britain.
And, for example, so do most universities and schools, and the media, of the United States of America. “Blue America” is indeed the local part of the “international community” (in all its vileness).
I suppose the evil (and it is evil) can be summed up in three words “Progressive Social Reform” – and it has been going on for a very long time indeed.
But is like a toxic growth on a lake.
It started very small – a very long time ago, but say it doubles its size each year or so.
Even if it took two centuries to cover half the lake – it will only take another year to choke all of the lake.
India has many terrible flaws – as Indians themselves honestly admit, but it is also interesting.
I noticed this during Covid…..
In certain parts of India (certainly not all of it – certain areas) Effective Early Treatments for Covid were used – the “international community” demanded that this stop, and were IGNORED.
Later the international community presented its toxic “Covid vaccines” to India – and were met with justified suspicion.
The international community (the “educated class” with their Woodrow Wilson style dream of world “governance” controlling every aspect of human life – see “Philip Dru: Administrator” for what these vicious people wanted to do to the United States) is used to being obeyed without question – it is not used to people saying NO to its commands.
President Donald John Trump is a rude man (he has no filter – no sense of politeness) as his reaction to the death of his enemy Mr Reiner recently showed – President Trump said publicly what a normal person (including myself) would NOT have said.
However, President Trump is one of the few Western leaders who is, sometimes, prepared to say NO to the international community – and that is important.
Just watched the speeches of the Economics Nobel winners at North Western University from 8 days ago. All three co-Laureates were foreigners who lived and worked in these United States of America, but what got a good laugh was one of them saying “the EU regulates industries which it does not have”.
True, Paul. But, as I always say, in Britain this is a corruption of our system and can be fought; in the EU, it’s the way it was designed.
San Duncan – how would we fight the institutionally corrupted British state? Even peaceful dissent can land someone in prison now.
By the way – we are now handing over yet more billions of Pounds to the European Union – as well as following all the “international community” tyrannical policies.
We wanted Independence – but we got “Brexit” (which is a collection of letters without meaning).