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Samizdata quote of the day – Millennials are ultra-conformist Millennials are an ultra-conformist generation. If you tell them that something is “cringe”, they won’t go there. If you tell them that it’s “cringe” to say that 2+2=4, they’ll think that this somehow stops 2+2 from being 4.
It was with this style that the Left managed to distance itself from Venezuelan socialism a few years later. They couldn’t delete all their old articles fawning over Venezuelan socialism, but they could make it “cringe” to mention it. And so, people stopped mentioning it.
– Kristian Niemietz
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“Leftist millennials”, maybe.
I have a passel of kids right at that Gen Y/Gen Z split. They are decidedly NOT conformist. Neither are their friends or acquaintances. But they are decidedly not leftists, either.
I would note, somewhat drolly, that Niemietz’s thread is itself absolute cringe, and smacks of the Steve Buscemi “How do you do, fellow kids?” meme.
Millennials are *not* ultra-conformist, as bobby b points out. Whether left or right, there’s dozens of dozens of different viewpoints, across political or cultural divides. They’re not a monolith.
Sure, maybe they’re not totally convinced of everything that Niemietz has to say, but obviously the fault is with them being “ultra-conformist”, and not with how he and fellow travellers present their arguments (or, indeed, the arguments themselves), huh?
It seems to me that this tendency to say that they’re a monolithic block is borne out of a frustration by the likes of Niemietz and co, that the “millennials” (note: 28 to 43, as of 2025) are looking at our current economic system in the UK and the anglosphere – which most people would call “capitalism” – and correctly noting that “welp, I’m in debt up to my eyeballs because I did the right thing and went to university, I can’t afford a house of my own, I’m barely covering my living expenses even living in a shared rental accommodation, and the idea of getting married and having kids? you’re winding me up right?” – and maybe they’re thinking that this wasn’t the dream they were promised, they’ve been totally failed by it, so maybe something different might be better? And what the likes of the IEA etc are saying has no cut-through, because it doesn’t address any of the problems that are actually being faced right now – it’s just “well, state socialism is rubbish. The debt crisis and high cost of living isn’t your fault, but we’re not proposing to do anything about it. Also, I’m going to spend a lot of time deriding people who took two minutes to put their pronouns in their email signature, because if I focus your attention over there, you won’t notice that 25% of your paycheck goes towards servicing debt/taxes/FIRE etc”
Who could possibly blame them for not listening to that kind of stuff?
There’s no sensible outreach right now (and hasn’t been for years and years) that doesn’t come with a very bitter taste along with it.
LOL. In that case “most people” must be morons.
My 11 year old calls stuff cringe, and it seems common amongst his friends. I was born in 1985, I don’t remember myself or anyone else I grew up with calling things cringe until maybe one or two years ago. I know twitter is better for insults than nuance but I don’t know what evidence Niemietz has that millennials are ‘ultra-conformist’, at least compared to other generations. Don’t know what that really has to do with Hugo Chavez either. I suspect if I asked most other normie millennials I know,few will have heard of him. Venezuela is hardly in the news often in the UK, has no pop culture resonance in the UK,and Chavez has been dead over a decade.
Alright then, what do they call it then, by and large?
neonsnake.
Government spending (including all the different bits of the state) is about half the entire economy in countries such as Britain. Back under Gladstone it (government spending – local as well as central government) was around a tenth of the economy – not half of it.
And the rest of the economy is saturated by endless (and arbitrary) regulations.
If you want a name for this economic system how about “fucked up mess”. Even the money itself is just the whims (fiat – command) of governments (not gold or silver – or indeed any commodity at all) and the antics of Credit Bubble bankers who are joined at the hip with the state bureaucracy (via the Central Banks – of Britain and other nations).
Henri Saint-Simon dreamed of a system like this – two centuries ago. “Most people” do not call him a supporter of capitalism.
The Venezuela road to socialism was simple.
Create more money, inflation, but refuse to allow business enterprises to increase prices – the business enterprises would then (of course) go bust (as they were not allowed to pass on their costs), and the state would “have to” take them over.
As for “cringe” – it is much like “yawn”.
When someone has no argument or evidence they will say “cringe” or “yawn” or make some “joke”.
I wouldn’t disagree with that, in any way whatsoever – it clearly is an absolutely fucked up mess.
I’m not totally convinced that government spending addresses the specific issues that I raised (student debt and increased cost-of-living), and are probably tangential to the point; on the other hand, however, I would agree that endless and arbitrary regulations most likely are linked to increased cost-of-living.
(as for Saint-Simon, I literally couldn’t give a shit. I’ve read enough to be confident that he was both a racist piece of shit and a technocrat. Any “good” ideas he may have accidentally stumbled across were, I’m sure, independently recognised by other thinkers who don’t carry the same amount of baggage)
“It was with this style that the Left managed to distance itself from Venezuelan socialism a few years later. They couldn’t delete all their old articles fawning over Venezuelan socialism, but they could make it “cringe” to mention it. And so, people stopped mentioning it.”
Are there any links to show this distancing from Venezualan socialism, and how they are making it ‘cringe’ to mention it.
Not a lot of evidence to go on is there?
Actually there is a tonne of evidence but do your own research if you were asleep during that phase of the Great Venezuela Amnesia Outbreak 😀
This is everyone’s point, though.
Venezuela hasn’t really been a thing for roughly 12-15 years. Most people who have an opinion on it now have a wikipedia opinion, at best.