The wealthy don’t protest. They exit.
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Samizdata quote of the day – ConsequencesSamizdata Illuminatus (Arkham, Massachusetts) · Economics, Business & Globalization · Self ownership · Slogans & Quotations May 16th, 2025 |
 34 comments to Samizdata quote of the day – ConsequencesLeave a Reply |
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Perry will be with Alessandro on that one.
“Insulate, insulate, insulate!”
(Bonfire of the Vanities.)
Do the wealthy revoke their citizenship when they exit?
Back in the 2010s, I ran across a book with the title Does Atlas Shrug? that argued that high taxes did not actually induce people to move to different locations. Supposedly there was empirical evidence to support this. On the other hand, recent U-Haul statistics have shown far more people leaving California than moving it.
The ability to put pressure on governments with bad policies is one of the strengths of federal systems; every shift of policy discussions to the national level undermines it.
Why would they? If things change, they come back, which is why they’re called expats rather than immigrants. That what happened in the 1980s when many wealth creators who’d fled UK in the 1960s-70s returned. I moved to Portugal but I’m not financially mobile enough to move more than once, so I’m an immigrant here in Porto.
Only ones from USA, I know several of those who shredded their passports due to how the US taxes people worldwide. US HNWIs never go back, others often do.
Addendum: Old Jack Tar said more or less the same thing as I was posting my comment 😀 Lots of UK HNWI will go back to UK if Farage wins big in 2029.
People voting with their feet is perhaps a purer form of democracy. People have been moving out of the city centres to the suburbs for decades – and now the outer suburbs or the countryside are preferred for those that can afford it. A select few move abroad and it is much easier nowadays for the wealthy to up sticks.
Build it and they will come; demolish it and they will leave.
QED
High taxes can (possibly) be mitigated by other factors – for example Mr Knight, the creator of the vast Nike Corporation, paid very high taxes in Oregon because it was his home and he loved the place. But now Oregon is not such a nice place – at least not around Portland (and the rest of Oregon has also changed – for example the State government keeps trying to ban effective self defense, and keeps trying to find ways round the 1st Amendment so that it can ban the expression of opinions it does not like – as if Oregon was Britain, where this has been the case for a long time).
Paying high taxes to be surrounded with screaming lunatics who want to burn you, or tear you to pieces, is not a very attractive option.
As for Britain – “London is my home, it is where my family has always lived – and this part of London is really a village, the families here have always known each other” is something that made sense in, say, 1964 – today it attracts laughter.
As Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer says – this island has become a “country of strangers” – he says “in danger of becoming….” but it has already happened. And the “strangers” are often hostile, and the “natives” themselves have undergone a terrible culture decline (over many decades now).
It does not make sense for a wealthy person to pay high taxes to stay here.
As for the United States – internal migration is a, relatively, easy option.
For example, Massachusetts was NOT really “Taxachusetts” – as Property Tax rates were capped, and the State Income Tax was 5% (flat rate).
But now there is a “Progressive” State Income Tax – so Massachusetts will join New York and California in going down the drain.
After all why stay in Boston where the Mayor constantly tells you that you are evil – because you happen to have “white” (pinkish-grey) skin, or are male, or are not a homosexual?
Why not go and live in Florida – where you pay lower taxes and the rulers do not denounce you as evil – and do not encourage people to attack you.
And Flordia is a very ethically diverse place – showing that this can work, IF (if) the principles of Liberty and Property are supported – are at the core of governance.
Is life a lot better in Porto than in UK ? I don’t speak about the weather I am speaking about the people, the social life and also the health system I am interested as a 70 years old ..
There is also a lot of hypocrisy – for example the “Progressive” wealthy white residents of Martha’s Vineyard (in Massachusetts) were horrified when lots of poor Hispanic migrants were bussed to the place, but they did NOT say so – on the contrary they said how much they loved these people (even as they pulled political strings to have them removed – “Diversity for you – but NOT for me”) – and even came out (with fake tears in their eyes) to wave the migrants goodbye, when they were removed.
And “Progressive” white wealthy people from New York used to move to Vermont – because it was NOT “diverse”, but they did NOT admit that was the reason. On the contrary, they boasted that they were moving to a place that had taxes almost as high as the place they were leaving – “we are Progressive – we love high taxes”.
Now parts (parts) of Vermont are becoming more “diverse” – watch as these Progressive wealthy people quietly start leaving.
On the positive side – look how the elected government of Italy has made a real difference on taxation, and the positive effects this is having.
The elected government of Italy is light years from perfect – but it does have the interests of Italy (of the Italian people – poor as well as rich, for there-is-no-contradiction) at heart.
Neither the elected or unelected government of the United Kingdom has the interests of the British people at heart – indeed they have a deep contempt (yes – contempt) for the British people.
Reduce tax rates, control government spending, stop mass migration – the United Kingdom has not had a Prime Minister who wanted to do these things (with the exception of Liz Truss – who was in “power” for only a few weeks and was not allowed to do anything) since Margaret Thatcher – and that was 35 years ago.
35 years ago.
“But what about Boris Johnson?” – Look at what Prime Minister Alexander Boris Johnson DID, or was done in his name.
No real action on taxation, government spending totally out of control (even before Covid), and mass migration (not really “immigration” – migration) higher than ever before in history.
Either Mr Johnson had no real power (and I suspect that he had no real power) – or he was not a friend of the British people.
Perry – I read during the post referendum Brexit farce that a community necessitates losers consent. Does that mean you aren’t a committed member of the uk community?
As a child we had family friends who lived just outside Sheffield. In 1968 Sheffield extended its borders, taking in the area they lived in; they promp[tly moved to get out of the taxbase of the city council. In 1974 the council expanded again; they again moved to get out of the city’s tax base. Each time they explicitly stated their reason was to get away from paying taxes to Sheffield.
Sure, I don’t contest the right of a UK government with a Parliamentary majority to greatly increase taxes & abridge my civil liberties regarding free assembly & free speech. That’s how the system works.
But because I am a HNWI & not a moron, I have no intention of making myself a stationary target to be ever more heavily taxed & placed at risk over what I say & write. Therefore I moved to Prague where civil liberties are considerably better & taxes are significantly lower. I continue to fund opposition in UK & will return when I’m not going to be robbed & threatened quite so badly by the state.
Stuart Noyes, your comment at 6:14am makes me suspect you’re an American citizen. America is almost unique (I think there is only one other country which does this) in that it taxes the overseas income of its citizens. So an American might go and live and work abroad, but he still owes the Internal Revenue Service. By contrast, if you’re British and do that, you don’t owe the British taxman anything.
Perry – We appreciate your solidarity. Perry, a citizen of nowhere?
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I have British nationality. We have a rather long history of seeking opportunity overseas 😉
Don’t know about Perry, but that describes me fairly well.
You could also call me a rootless cosmopolitan.
Are you allowed to shred an American passport?
My understanding was that you are supposed to pay a fee of thousands of US$ to apply for your US citizenship to be revoked — and then the application can be denied.
The last time i opened a bank account, i had to sign a form saying that i have no US citizenship and no financial interests in the US.
True, and I know a couple folks who went through the process citing family links elsewhere (rather than taxes).
I also know a couple folks who got other passports & just went “fuck you, I’m never going back” & shredded their passports & that was that. I don’t know the details of how they arranged their affairs but both went UDI on the USA many years ago so it obviously worked out for them.
Perry – You’ve not left the uk for opportunity. You left because of selfish reasons. Your quip about solidarity says it all. You aren’t prepared to fight for what your conscience tells you and suffer if necessary. You’ve fucked off.
A rat. I have the greatest respect for former dissidents who were prepared for jail or worse. Struggling to have respect for you.
If you have a bunch of money, and you stay and fight (but still pay taxes), you end up financing the very people with whom you fight, all while leaving yourself within reach of their misuse of power.
Most effective fight seems to be, deny them your wealth, ridicule and critique them from over the border, try to inspire pushback.
Why should suffering be necessary if you can effectively fight without it? Don’t die for your causes. Make your enemies die for your causes.
The vast majority of people who left the UK to have a better life overseas over the last few centuries did it for “selfish reasons” 😀 Why do you think people leave their home country (unless they are members of the military or civil service) if not for “selfish reasons”?
Somehow I will cope with the sadness some stranger online thinks I should bravely allow my enemies to help themselves to ever more of what is mine. By reducing the inflow to HMRC, every HNWI in the 1% who buggers off does vastly more to damage the parasitic system than any amount of bloviating online or marching with placards on Downing Street could ever do. The Czech state isn’t so greedy, and doesn’t send the Plod around because of online remarks I can make from anywhere.
Very true — except perhaps if your wealth is in the Musk range; or even in the Soros range.
They have some special protection at that level, but if the Dems were to win the presidency and Congress in 2028, Musk would be well advised to get himself and his wealth out of the country. The long knives would be out for him at that point.
Perry has behaved sensibly – only people who welcome self harm stay under a regime that wants to harm them, if they can get out.
If I was a wealthy man (sadly I am not) I would leave right now – rather than wait for the knock on the door.
Still prison will solve my financial problems – free food and all that.
As for private, criminal, threats to property and liberty.
Two U.S. Marine Generals had contrasting opinions.
General Butler (who later lied, “brave warriors who win medals do not lie” – oh yes they do, before Congress about a “Fascist plot” to overthrow Franklin Roosevelt – why would “Fascists” want to overthrow “FDR” whose policies were based on Fascist Italy, and why would they approach an ex General, Butler, who was known to be a friend of the Communist Party?) and General “Chesty” Puller.
Both men fought bravely in Central America, but had very different opinions.
General Butler held that Latin America would be a Progressive paradise if it was not for “capitalists” and claimed that the American military were crushing noble movements.
General “Chesty” Puller held that the groups the U.S. Marines fought (in the “Small Wars” – see the old “Small Wars” military manual) did not care who they robbed and murdered – rich “capitalists” or the poorest peasant or urban worker.
Butler was wrong and Puller was correct.
By the way – Tucker “space aliens” Carlson seems to agree with Butler.
“Does Atlas Shrug?”
Yes he does – for example when the French government increased taxes a lot of French people came to London.
And California, and other high tax States, have been losing taxpayers for years (which they used to mitigate by the trick of having State and local taxes be deductible from income before it was subjected to Federal taxes – but they still lost taxpayers even back then). Losing taxpayers and gaining illegal, and benefit and services seeking, migrants (they are not really immigrants – they are migrants), is not a good exchange – as California (and other States – such as New York) is finding out.
So the book is wrong.
Incidentally, I intend to read more about the life of Leo Szilard, one of the Great Generation of Hungarian Jews.
Apart from holding a patent for a refrigerator design together with Einstein, and being the first to conceive of a nuclear chain reaction, he had an exceptional talent at foot-voting.
IIRC there was a period when he lived out of a suitcase, always ready to escape, should the Nazis come to town.
@Stuart Noyes
Perry – You’ve not left the uk for opportunity. You left because of selfish reasons.
You say that as if it were a bad thing. It seems to me that doing what is best for you and your family is exactly what we as humans should be doing. Words like “selfish” and “duty” are words that are used to manipulated people into doing that which is not in their best interest.
I mean if there is a chance to fix things it might be worth giving it a shot, but Britain is far, Far, FAR past the point of no return. There is no political mechanism to fix Britain. And no non political mechanism. FFS against all the odds they got Brexit passed, and then the civil service and entrenched elites neutered it entirely.
I see no reason to go down with the sinking ship. Of course if you are climbing over women and children and throwing puppies out of the lifeboat to make space for yourself that makes you a bad person. But if you are just leaving, saying “I no longer want to participate”, then what is wrong with that? Anyone else who wants to can do that too. In fact they absolutely should. Because as the British government get more and more desperate as all the productive people bugger off to Galt’s Gulch they will make it more and more and more difficult to leave. So you might want to get out while you can.
Oh and the great thing? They can blame the mass exodus on Brexit rather than their terrible policies.
What is the old saying? Voting for them just encourages the bastards. And the corollary? Paying taxes just funds the bastards.
Whenever anyone says that you should stay and fight, not run away, my immediate reaction is to ask, “Is that the advice you would have given the German Jews in the 1930s?”
Apologies for the Goodwin, but the point stands. You look around and see what your neighbours think. If you are in the majority, by all means fight, but if that is not the case, leave.
I note that there is very little public reaction to the plight of poor white girls in the midlands, the Countryside Alliance was able to put more people on the streets. As someone who is ethnically poor white myself, albeit who had some luck with computers, I have no desire to be bludgeoned in my dotage by a foreigner in my own country, or be imprisoned for publicly expressing that view.
Fraser Orr and Roue le Jour.
Quite so Gentleman.
I have nothing to add.
Roue:
You look around and see what your neighbours think. If you are in the majority, by all means fight, but if that is not the case, leave.
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Not so simple… there are many with splinters in their arses from sitting on the fence.
And under a DEI-type regime, many dissemblers waiting for someone to lead them.
I think only 20 percent of American colonists actively participated in the Revolution.
But it obviously had widespread support after the fact.
We have something similar in Israel – for over a decade the Israeli mainstream has been trying to vote its way out of Oslo, only to be stymied by a crooked Parliamentary system and the embedded remnants of a Socialist elite.
The Orthodox Jewish settlers have largely had to fight Oslo – and attempt to reform the political system – on their own.
The silent majority would be very happy to see the Religious Zionists win – but for now they echo the party line or keep silent.
The decision to publicly join the opposition is often not just a matter of policy – it is tied up with one’s personal and group identity.
”In reality the dominion of an organised minority, obeying a single impulse, over the unorganised majority is inevitable. The power of any minority is irresistible as against each single individual in the majority, who stands alone before the totality of the organised minority. A hundred men acting uniformly in concert, with a common understanding, will triumph over a thousand men who are not in accord and can therefore be dealt with one by one.” – Gaetano Mosca, The Ruling Class
BenDavid – I wish you every success in Israel, as I do people fighting in other nations against the evil (yes evil) agenda of the International Community.
But I can not, in good conscience, suggest that people fight here in Britain – as their defeat, and horrible persecution, would be certain. Such is the correlation of forces here.
This is not a matter of me clinging to life – I do not care if I die (indeed I go to bed each day hoping I will not wake up) – it is a matter of other people and their families.
They want to live, they have much (even now) to live for – I repeat I can not, in good conscience, suggest that they resist the authorities in what would be a hopeless fight.