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El Comandante inspires the troops

It has been said that El Comandante Salmond resoundingly won the debate with Alistair Darling. So hopefully this boosts the YES campaign to the point where English I mean Scottish independence takes wing like a majestic eagle, soaring aloft amidst a swirl of stirring bagpipe music (whereupon it can fly off and crash into the middle of Havana for all I care).

44 comments to El Comandante inspires the troops

  • Jamess

    I read that the economic genius who was behind the SNPs plans was proposing a 100% tax on the super rich. I’m tempted to say it made me Laffer lot harder at their stupidity. And it looks like I succumbed to temptation.

  • Paul Marks

    Two socialists having a “debate”.

    I can not say that I am sorry I missed this event.

    And (as Perry would point out) it says all one needs to know about Scots politics that BOTH men would regard David Cameron as a hard core free market “fundamentalist”.

  • What happens to Norther Ireland if Scotland leaves the Union, anywhere. The not very United Kingdom of Lesser Britain and Northern Ireland?

  • I look forward to the stampeding sounds of Scotland’s wealthy and most entrepreneurial heading for London post-independence, and I for one shall welcome them with open arms.

  • Regional

    Perry,
    Especially if they’re going to be taxed the crap out off just like in Frogistan.

  • PeterT

    One less frequently mentioned benefit of Scotland leaving is that the rest of the UK will not be as likely to engage in foreign wars (and surely we must give up our seat at the UN). The whole question of where to keep the nuclear submarines might become slightly moot.

  • RRS

    Surely y’all miss the scots “farsight;” (not to be confused with foresight) since it may be focused on emotions as far back as 1695 and the Darian project.

    Try again?

    Well, at least there is no William Paterson to intervene this time.

  • Mr Ed

    Mr Salmond is promising Norway but is more likely thinking of what is actually Venezuela.

    Mr Darling is saying ‘Shh, don’t bugger it up, we need English money to keep the welfare payments flowing’.

  • Mr Ed

    I look forward to the stampeding sounds of Scotland’s wealthy and most entrepreneurial heading for London post-independence

    What if they bring the Chavista mentality with them?

    Here is the draft provisional Constitution for Scotland.

    It unilaterally confers EU citizenship on Scottish citizens (art. 25).

    It does away with independence for Scotland in article 24.

    24
    (1) Directly effective EU law forms part of Scots law.
    (2) Scots law is of no effect so far as it is inconsistent with EU law.

    It will also protect children.

    29 (1) The Scottish Government and public authorities must, in carrying out their functions,
    seek to safeguard, support and promote the wellbeing of the children of Scotland.
    (2) In subsection (1), “children” are people who have not attained the age of 18 years.

    There is the usual environment stuff at Article 31 with climate change embedded in the provisional constitution until they get a final one under Article 33 (they ditch the monarchy at that point).

    And there is the ominous clause 8 (2)

    The Scottish Parliament may choose, as it sees fit, a national anthem for Scotland.

  • …and surely we must give up our seat at the UN.

    Security council seat = must have nuclear weapons and not be Israel, so no, rUK will still keep Security Council seat.

    The whole question of where to keep the nuclear submarines might become slightly moot.

    Because there are no ports in England?

  • What if they bring the Chavista mentality with them?

    Don’t care because (1) there will not be enough of them if they did (2) the wealthy and most entrepreneurial will not.

  • Mr Ed

    Let’s hope so Perry.

    The nuclear subs have to be kept in ports away from populated areas so that a first strike does not wipe out a city into the bargain. Whatever you think of Rochester and the Medway ports, it is too close to London to be viable for subs and near a pinch point at Dover (and some UK subs leak, if only internally).

    Other options:

    Cornwall is a holiday resort for Londoners, so that’s out, ditto Devon.
    Wales is too Welsh and might secede.
    The east coast is rather crumbly in large parts and the North Sea too shallow for a good hiding place, too easy to monitor.
    Bristol is too close to Bath to risk it getting nuked.

    What about Liverpool?

  • Stuck-Record

    I might go out on a limb here and say, in this era of environimbyism, and horror at anything which includes the word ‘Nuclear’ (family included), there is approximately a 0% chance of any UK region allowing a new nuclear sub base to be built.

    If you think the anti-fracking loonies are bad, just wait.

    Scottish independence doesn’t mean the end of the deterrent, it just means the end of Trident. We’ll have to switch back to bombers and cruise missiles.

  • Mr Ed

    What happens to Norther Ireland if Scotland leaves the Union, anywhere. The not very United Kingdom of Lesser Britain and Northern Ireland?

    Hopefully England looks around and asks what the heck we are doing paying for this lot?…

    …and then leaves the UK. The UK becomes Wales and Northern Ireland, the most unintentionally comical union in history.

  • JohnK

    Mr Salmond thinks Scotland could use the pound without a currency union, much as Panama uses the US dollar. The irony that it was at Darien in what is now Panama that Scotland lost all of its money and then its independence is clearly lost on him.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    Mr Ed
    August 26, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    It will also protect children.

    It’s always interesting how laws ‘to protect the children’ are never examined for the effect they’ll have on the adults those children will spend most of their lives as.

  • That’s because one of the main purposes of such laws is to keep adults in perpetual state of childhood.

  • Mr Ed

    PfP Once the ‘child bomb’ as I believe an eminent Samizdatean (sorry Perry, I am too new to recall the term) has been deployed, ALL DEBATE MUST CEASE.

    We should never forget that in the struggle for freedom, we are like turtle hatchlings crossing the sandy beach one night, scuttling to the boundless Oceans, where freedom and all its hazards await, and in our infant state, many foes gather to feast on our weak selves. Some of us will be devoured by our foes, but should that happen, it was in a worthy and necessary cause, that of freedom. Not all can or will make it, so let us celebrate those who do.

  • Actually the British (English) Trident submarines could operate out of Kings Bay Georgia. Which would have the advantage of operating out of the most royalist sounding port on the US East Coast.

  • mactheknife

    “…takes wing like a majestic eagle, soaring aloft amidst a swirl of stirring bagpipe music”.

    Directly into one of Salmond’s beloved wind-turbines perhaps…

  • Jake Haye

    I didn’t watch the debate, though I’m rooting for Salmond for the same reasons as Perry.

    The thing that surprised me was that the ‘no’ camp seem not to have used what must surely be their strongest line of attack, that independence would remove a bunch of Labour MPs from parliament & make the Tories stronger in England, so vote ‘no’ just to spite the Tories.

    Appealing to leftist spite is a strategy that never fails.

  • Natalie Solent (Essex)

    Perry,

    What if they bring the Chavista mentality with them?

    Don’t care because (1) there will not be enough of them if they did (2) the wealthy and most entrepreneurial will not.

    In the US, there is a visible pattern emerging of people migrating from “blue” states where high-tax, high-regulation policies have destroyed jobs to “red” states in order to find work, and then voting in such a way as to turn the blue states red. Some of the most entrepreneurial people are very naive about politics precisely because they have spent all their lives in the relatively honest world of business.

    There is an even more ominous parallel in the way that certain Muslims have fled to freedom in the West only for them – or their children – to start to replicate all the worst aspects of their home cultures here.

    To use a military metaphor, when you hear a general talking about how our forces are all the stronger for being concentrated, you can be fairly sure he’s losing. I’d prefer to fight the Chavista mentality in its own territory – people’s minds. Contrary to popular belief that fight is not impossible in Scotland. While Scotland is more Chavista than the rest of the UK the difference is not nearly as extreme as the pattern of Parliamentary seats suggests.

    Here’s a quite short Nuffield Foundation report (in pdf): Is Scotland more left-wing than England?. It concludes, “Although Scotland is more social democratic in outlook than England, the differences are modest at best.” And both countries are becoming less social-democratic, which makes me happy if not the authors of the report.

  • Paul Marks

    I agree with Mr Ed – apart from what he says about Ulster and Wales (I like both places).

    I might be expected to like Ulster – the only place on the planet where the population are more stubborn than me (there is even a special word for it “thran”).

    However, why do I like Wales? (And I do).

    My natural perversity I suppose.

  • Natalie Solent (Essex)

    I’m fairly sure that I first heard that “Some of the most entrepreneurial people are very naive about politics precisely because they have spent all their lives in the relatively honest world of business” from you, Paul. Later confirmed by personal observation.

  • The nuclear subs have to be kept in ports away from populated areas so that a first strike does not wipe out a city into the bargain. Whatever you think of Rochester and the Medway ports

    Liverpool works for me.

  • Mr Ed

    Paul, I did not say that I dislike Northern Ireland or Wales, it’s just that a Union of two countries both forming small but beautiful parts of different islands with only St Patrick to unite them would form an amusing pantomime horse.

  • Natalie Solent (Essex)

    You know when I said, “in such a way as to turn the blue states red”?

    I meant, “in such a way as to turn the red states blue”.

    In mitigation, it is easy to be confused by the peverse Yank convention on political colour-coding. I think I read somewhere in in Jim Miller’s blog that the present convention was only introduced by the TV networks in the seventies in some misguided effort to avoid stereotyping revealing Dems as “reds”. Before that the Americans wore blue and red rosettes with the same meaning as the rest of the world.

  • Dr Weevil

    “[T]he relatively honest world of business”? Indeed. Seventeen years ago, I started working at a small ‘cutting edge’ tech firm after seven years as an adjunct instructor at a state university. The first big meeting was a revelation: everyone was listening to each other, arguing honestly, and unselfishly suggesting things to improve the product! Totally unlike the university department meetings, in which all the tenured professors sniped at each other if they weren’t openly insulting each other or (in one case) throwing chairs, and shamelessly pushed their own interests, with no concern for anyone else’s and even less concern for what students (or the untenured) wanted or needed.

  • Julie near Chicago

    Natalie, in re “red, blue”: I didn’t realize the colorization went back that far (to the ’70’s). It appeared on my radar at some point around the turn of the millenium, as I recall; I can remember being horrified, however, since the Dims were obviously the socialist-minded outfit.

    If Mr. Miller is correct, I will sew a vest onto a button by noting that according to former, repentant New Lefters (such as historian Ron Radosh, who wrote a book on the history, Divided They Fell*, of the Democratic Party) the Democratic Party succumbed to leftist infiltration and shoving during the McGovern Campaign, presumably the one of 1972.

    It is therefore beyond unsurprising that the Dims would not care to see themselves publically colored Red!

    . . .

    *From the Amazon page blurb:

    http://www.amazon.com/Divided-They-Fell-Ronald-Radosh/dp/0684863626/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409087277&sr=1-1

    “This book briskly recounts the Democratic Party’s leftward lurch during the tumultuous 1960s and the subsequent decline of liberalism as a vital force in our nation’s political life”.–Will Marshall, President, Progressive Policy Institute.

    Who’s the Progressive Policy Institute? It’s a creature of the Democratic Leadership Council:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Policy_Institute

    Advocates of the “Third Way,” the home of “Pragmatic Progressives,” etc., etc.

    From the Ixquick search results for “Progressive Policy Institute”:

    Progressive Policy Institute – Profile – Right Web … **

    http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Progressive_Policy_Institute – Proxy – Highlight

    The Progressive Policy Institute (PPI) is a Democratic Party-aligned policy shop that promotes a “liberal hawk” line on foreign affairs and “market-friendly” economic policies.

    Note that RightWeb is a directory-and-description site like SourceWatch and others, and in particular that it’s a project of the Institute for Policy Studies, which is a hard-left, highly effective D.C. outfit whose mission is to promote the hard-left’s agenda. See DiscoverTheNetworks.org, for instance.

    Home page: progressivepolicy.org

    PS. Discover The Networks also has a page for the P.P.I. It’s direct and straightforward, and one thing that’s interesting that “MellonBradleyScaife” is all one word that the lefties love to use to describe the eeeeviiiilllll supporters of such rightwingnutjobextremists as Richard Lindzen and others who challenge the Warble-Gloaming hysterics, and other favorite lefty bunches & projects. But the Bradley Foundation is one of the few sources of PPI funding that the DTN page lists. Heck, here’s the entire final paragraph from that page:

    PPI receives relatively little direct foundation sponsorship: most of the money PPI has received (about $300,000) has come from the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, which contributes to a variety of both leftwing and conservative foundations. Additional PPI money has come from the AT&T Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the BP Foundation, and the Eastman Kodak Charitable Trust.

  • Julie near Chicago

    PPS. From DTN’s article on the PPI, I’m interested to read this paragraph on the “Third Way”:

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6901

    During the collapse of the Soviet Empire, Mikhail Gorbachev promoted the so-called “Third Way” as an alternative to free markets. This new way of governing would be neither capitalist nor communist, but something in between. In a similar vein, President Clinton said in his 1998 State of the Union address, “We have moved past the sterile debate between those who say government is the enemy and those who say government is the answer. My fellow Americans, we have found a Third Way.” This Third Way calls for business and government to join hands as “partners.” As Clinton told the Economic Club of Detroit in February 2002, “We are working with business to use technology, research and market incentives to meet national goals. Some have called this political philosophy the Third Way.” In short, Big Business would own the economy (as under capitalism), while Big Government would run it (as under socialism). Corporations would be persuaded to comply with government directives through subsidies, tax breaks, customized legislation, and other special privileges.

  • Laird

    As best I can discern from over here in the far removes of America, the only thing really holding back most Scots from supporting independence is the currency issue. Last week the Wall Street Journal ran an article suggesting a solution, which they call “adaptive sterlingization”, a variant on the Panama model. If Salmond can sell that to his people it should put him over the top. And if that plan turns out to be less than successful, well, they’ll be free and able to try another.

  • Regional

    I reckon future wars should be against politicians, contract their sacking out to the likes of the IRA and KGB. For those pesky hard to reach perps cruise missiles topped with a one megaton neutron warhead. Keep it simple.

  • Laird

    Julie, there’s a name for Clinton’s “Third Way”: Fascism.

  • Julie near Chicago

    Oh, did you notice that, Laird? *grin*

  • Nick (natural genius) Gray

    Regional, a good idea, though Thomas Moore had it first, in his book Utopia. If someone invaded Utopia, they tried to kill only the leaders who had started the enterprise, which put the blame where it lay, AND made the invaders effectively leaderless.

  • Regional

    Nick,
    During times of unpleasantness snipers are deployed to shoot generals.
    During the First Transnational Unleasantness of the Twentieth Century 58 British generals were killed. On the Western Front they were expected to visit the front line every day while still wearing their red embellishments, the Germans would see this from their observation posts and lay down an artillery barrage. It was safer being a shit kicker than a general.

  • Laird

    Right you are, Nick. More’s Utopia would be a truly nasty place to live, but he did get that one thing right!

  • Pardone

    The Scottish are a nation of foul-mouthed, arrogant complainers and narcissists. The architects of Ireland’s troubles, they spew hatred and bitterness wherever they go.

    The Scotsman, small of mind and crude of language, is even more philistine than the aesthetically barren Englishman. The Englishman compensates for his lack of imagination by at least affording his fellow humans an admittedly utterly fake veneer of politeness, whereas the Scotsman will verbally abuse anything with a pulse. The sun hides behind the clouds in Scotland because its afraid of the rude and abusive scum that resides in Scotland’s grim, boring, barren landscapes.

  • Pardone

    Michael Jennings, surely the nuke subs should be in London, as that’s where the politicians are. Leaders should feel the tip of the spear at all times, I call it the Damocles Principle.

    They should be the first to die, those whom control and rule. The price of power is responsibility.

  • Is Pardone the proverbial True Scotsman?

  • Laird

    Hey, look: people are trying to sell their votes on the Scottish referendum. But for some reason the Powers That Be take exception, like it’s illegal or something. Apparently it’s OK for politicians to buy votes with stolen money, but not OK to sell votes for honestly-earned money. Or something like that. Who knew?

    Just wondering: would it be illegal for me to buy one of these votes? I’m not a resident of Scotland, so it’s not like I’d be voting twice or anything. (Unless, of course, I were to buy both of them . . . .)

  • I’d love to buy a few votes in that election too :-)