We are developing the social individualist meta-context for the future. From the very serious to the extremely frivolous... lets see what is on the mind of the Samizdata people.

Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]

Bad times in Brazil

There is a long and detailed report in the London Times today about the scale of gangland and police violence in Brazil’s Sao Paulo. If ever there was an account ramming home the distance between the image of Brazil as a fun-loving, sun-soaked nation and a country of enormous social and economic problems, this surely is it.

Brazil is one of those country’s that I would love to visit some day (I am a bit of a nut about Brazilian music). But stuff like this does not exactly get me rushing to get on the aircraft.

Tweet about this on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on LinkedInShare on TumblrShare on RedditShare on Google+Share on VK

11 comments to Bad times in Brazil

  • cryptononcommie

    The Sao Paulo scenario may be what various Western European capitals will resemble in a few decades. The only major difference may be that there will be fewer Muslims in Sao Paulo, making it infinitely more pleasant to live in.

  • Freeman

    How I wish cryptononcommie was wrong.

  • guy herbert

    Don’t worry, he is. Had he made a similarly millenarian observation about London ‘maybe’ being underwater in a few decades because of global warning, with a sideswipe against waterborne SUVs, say, then the wrath of the commentariat would have descended.

  • Johnathan

    crypto’s views are nonsense. Brazil, remember, is still stuck with a legacy of slavery, decades of military rule and banditry. None of those conditions obtain in major European states and so I very much doubt that the Brazil of today is much of a warning about what could happen due to large scale Muslim immigration, although you can never tell.

  • Midwesterner

    Johnathan, to the degree Europe sustains “large scale Muslim immigration” it introduces “a legacy of slavery, decades of military rule and banditry.” And worse.

    As for predictions, like you said, “you can never tell.”

  • cryptononcommie

    guy herbert:
    I don’t quite understand your reasoning. You assert that I am wrong and then back up that assertion using only a comparison with me having made a completely different prediction? That sort of reasoning could be used to disprove all predictions about the future equally, and obviously not all predictions are equally improbable, ergo, you should rethink your line of reasoning.

    Johnathan:
    Brazil is not stuck with any of those things. If anyone is, it is the people inhabiting it. Now, hypothetically speaking, suppose all of the people from the Sao Paulo “suburbs” in question were allowed to emigrate to London (and did); what do you suppose London would look like after that migration?

    You also seem to not realize that nothing codifies “slavery, … military rule and banditry” like the Holy Qur’an; as more “Muslims” actually read the Qur’an, it will get even worse, and that’s without even considering these (and other) people’s cultural backgrounds (or baggage, as you may prefer).

    Furthermore, you fail to realize that there is nothing magical about the soil that the various European cities are built upon. If you transfer large amounts of people, and do not completely assimilate them, there will be considerable changes (probably for the worse).

    Anyways, anyone who doubts the veracity of my comments is free to stroll through certain parts of France, for example. The toughest districts of Sao Paulo may actually be safer, especially as the police dare to enter them from time to time. Already, “no-go” zones have been established all over Western Europe. Does anyone deny this fact? It does not take a genius to follow the trendline i.e. as the demographics that set up these no-go zones increase, so will the number and unpleasantness of the “no-go” zones.

    In fact, if London ends up like Sao Paulo, you should count your blessings. The other, more probable alternative, is ending up like Constantinopol (“Istanbul”), Antioch, Alexandria (“Iskindireyya”), Alexandretta (“Iskenderun ), Nicea (“Iznik”) or Damascus (“Dimashq”) and Philadelphia (“Amman”) . I wonder what London will be called.

  • Alessandro

    I’m a brazilian who lives in Brazil, in Rio de Janeiro, and my brother lives in Sao Paulo.

    Neither the Time’s article nor this blog mention the 2 most important reasons in the recent violence surge in Sao Paulo:
    1) there is stupid a tradition in Brazil that the federal government can set free criminals, even serial killers, in some special dates, such as Christmas, New Year’s eve, on condition that they return to prison after the holiday. The first violent attacks from gang criminals happened on mother’s day when more than 1 thousand dangerous criminals were set free by the government. According to the police, more than half of those criminals didn’t return to prison. The police believes those are the ones that are taking part in these violent acts.
    2) this criminal gang (PCC) is politically connected to radical leftist groups and guerillas in latin america. We’re in elections time in Brazil. We will vote for a new president. Everytime the election debate heats up, some gang criminal acts against the population are perpretated in Sao Paulo. It has not been proved but it has been mentioned in the news and by opposition politicians that these gangs are acting on behalf of the current leftist government. Recently, the Sao Paulo’s police has recorded a cell phone conversation between gang members in which they mentioned that they have a duty to fight agains the opposition political party, the Social Democratic Party.

    Regards,

    Alessandro

  • guy herbert

    You assert that I am wrong and then back up that assertion …

    No. I’m not interested in arguing with you. Though I think your statement is about as fatuous as the analogous suggestion I offered, my reason for doing so was to suggest that you were nonetheless likely to get away with your view, because of the prejudices of your audience.

    The way things are going, we may have to revise Godwin’s Law for Samizdata comments. There is seemingly no topic into which the furious obsession with the Dusky Peril cannot intrude in search of reinforcement.

  • If ever there was an account ramming home the distance between the image of Brazil as a fun-loving, sun-soaked nation and a country of enormous social and economic problems, this surely is it.

    The film City of God did a good job of that.

  • Fabio

    As another Brazilian, I second what Alessandro said. Slavery (abolished over 100 years ago) has nothing to do with it (the US seems to be doing fine, last time I checked). Neither does a past of military rule (Chile’s military government was more hardline, and they also are better off than us). It is not common banditry, but organized crime with suspected ties to marxist guerrillas, along with leftism deteriorating common sense in laws (such as the silly law that Alessandro mentioned that allows prisoners spend holidays at home). Europe is certainly not immune to those things.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    There is seemingly no topic into which the furious obsession with the Dusky Peril cannot intrude in search of reinforcement.

    Guy is sadly right. Some of these people would find a reason to bring up the subject of islamic hordes from watching an edition of Sesame Street. How very tiresome they are.