Comments on A mystery is solved, at least in part

"Apparently the shit sank and the destruction of the lifeboats and rafts meant that it went down with its entire crew of 645 people."

You might want to edit that sentence.


Posted by Vinegar Joe at March 19, 2008 04:04 AM

I'll take care of it.

I hope you post a follow up when they get the photos of the ship.


Posted by Dale Amon at March 19, 2008 04:32 AM

Whilst attempting to identify the unknown vessel, which was sending out deliberately unclear and ambiguous flag signals, the Sydney chased and overhauled the Kormoran, approaching to a distance of approximately 1000 metres from the Komoran. At this point, the Komoran opened fire.

Wouldn't that be considered something of a war crime? Or is this an instance of taking liberties in the gray area?


Posted by Eric at March 19, 2008 05:04 AM

Lest we forget.


Posted by Ben at March 19, 2008 12:16 PM

Wouldn't that be considered something of a war crime?

Only if they failed to put up the true flag before opening fire.


Posted by a.sommer at March 19, 2008 02:58 PM

Wouldn't that be considered something of a war crime?

Only if Chimpy W. McHalliburton did it. ;-)


Posted by Ted Schuerzinger at March 19, 2008 04:47 PM

Subterfuge prior to engagement is a tactic long used by all military forces. One of the best examples was the British commando raid on the locks at St. Nazaire. A destroyer, loaded with explosives, snuck into the harbor at night and tried very hard to be taken as a German ship for as long as possible. Only when the ruse was well and truly up and they had to return fire did they raise the Union Jack.


Posted by Dale Amon at March 19, 2008 06:40 PM

Wouldn't that be considered something of a war crime?

Masquerading as a non-combatant or merchant vessel is a tried and true tactic (viz. the Q ships of WW1)

The Sydney was the largest (in terms of displacement) all-hands loss of WW2.


Posted by David Gillies at March 19, 2008 10:18 PM

Wouldn't that be considered something of a war crime?

I have never heard it described as such in the context of the Sydney. It was certainly a tried and true tactic of the Germans in the First World War in particular, so the Australian Navy should have been aware of it. Discussion tends to be about the question of whether Captain Joseph Burnett, the commander of the Sydney, was foolish in sailing too close to the Kormoran without having fully established her identity. Burnett had taken command of the Sydney a relatively short period prior to the battle from the much more experienced and very distinguished Captain (later Rear Admiral Sir) John Collins, who had commanded the Sydney in a very successful campaign against the Italian navy in the Mediterranean.


Posted by Michael Jennings at March 19, 2008 10:50 PM

>The Sydney was the largest (in terms of displacement) all-hands loss of WW2.

True, but only 3 people survied the Hood's sinking.

If the people of today had to fight WWII the bad guys would have won -- we have no stomach for things that that any more.


Posted by Anthony at March 20, 2008 06:39 PM

If the Sydney had opened fire before they were sure - and the other ship had turned out to be a merchant ....

Sometimes there is no easy course of right action - "the fog of war".

This incident reminds me of one of the most stupid things I ever said.

I remember once saying that if the Japanese had landed in Darwin it would have done them no good - as the vast Outback would have still lain ahead of them.

Only later did it occur to me that if the Japanese had won the battle of the Coral Sea and established clear naval dominance they could have landed on the Australian east coast.

In short, in claiming that Australia was not under threat of conquest I was talking out of my backside.


Posted by Paul Marks at March 22, 2008 11:34 PM

I considered myself a WWII buff in highschool---my Uncle Richard was shot TWICE by dying Japanese soldiers on Tawara to the point where he would freak out seeing old asians napping on a parkbench---could you blame him?

I never heard of the story of the HMS Sydney before. A valient ship with a brilliant crew (that cremed the Italian Navy) to go down like that against a lousy Nazi Q-Ship? Oh well---never give a Greenhorn (CPT Barnett) an even break

CPT Collins must have shit himself when he heard all his crew went down with his ship. You can't blame the Hun bastards for being brilliant. A Q-Ship going up against a CL is more than suicide---its a death wish and they almost pullled it off scot free!!! Me, I would have shot myself had that happened to my former command!!! Lets Raise a Fosters to the brave LAs who never came back---and to the bastards who sent them there!!! They were sailors and damn good ones at that!!! CPTG


Posted by Michael C. Goncalves at May 18, 2008 06:46 AM
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