[P.S. For our US readers, 'two fingers' is the British version of 'flipping the bird' and a time-honoured gesture of defiance.]

Ah, thanks for that. I figured you must be referring to, if anything, the double deuce.

Or as it is also know... the Mighty Forks

Proud to say he's an inhabitant of my native Blackpool :)

He's a fighter, that's for sure- you should see the externals of his bar it's just covered in anti-statist material (and it's a pretty big frontage!).

He's come in for some stick (as you'd expect) from ignorant locals, a local licensed trades forum he was chairman of (and has since been removed from by supine, self-interested 'colleagues') and Blackpool Council's Licensing Committee chairman, Cllr Henry Mitchell.

He's had one or two letters in support of him, but not a great deal. I think there's a campaign fund, too- I know that he ran for election during the May locals.

If you feel like writing letters of support for the letters page of the local rag, go to www.blackpooltoday.co.uk

You can also find coverage of the story on there.

His website can be visited at http://www.uk-fags.co.uk/

Likewise, if you have words of support for Cllr Henry Mitchell, he can be contacted at cllr.henry.mitchell@blackpool.gov.uk ;)

....Over here it's "The dirty digit", "The one finger howdy", and "The International sign of Good Fellowship". Do they still use the palm of the right hand in the crook of the left elbow?

God bless the man. Does he have a place to take offset donations for the fine(s)? The US dollar may be heading for banana republic levels of inflation, but I guess the InterWeb tubes are wide enough for a wheelbarrow full of dollars.

The last place I know of in Florida that ignored our restaurant smoking ban went non-smoking after Hurricane Dennis encouraged them to remodel the interior.

And Pixelkiller, I'm personally fond of the euphemism "unidigital salute".

Two fingers - isn't that what Englishmen yeoman used to salute the French at Crecy, Poitiers, Agincourt?

Doesn't the way the hand is facing make a difference between being an insult or the "V" for victory sign?
Could be vital knowledge for a non-native visitor.

Palm forward---"V" for Victory
Back of the hand forward---"two fingers" salute

The Above Distinction was lost on president bush snr when he visited Australia much to the anoyance of Aussie farmers protesting American Trade subsidies on agriculture.

Don,

Agincourt I believe.

Bill,

you're right.

Bill, Churchill (link to Goooogle images) used both versions of the sign to mean 'Victory'.

Don, English archers used the sign to demonstrate to French archers that they still had both fingers (the French having had theirs removed by the English).

"Don, English archers used the sign to demonstrate to French archers that they still had both fingers (the French having had theirs removed by the English)."

Other way round: the French were so terrified of the English longbow archers that whenever the French captured an English archer, they chopped off the first two fingers of his right hand - the fingers used to draw the bow.

The English used the V sign to show that they still had them (if they did) and to show that they were capable of firing their longbows.

The Agincourt bowmen origins of the two-fingered salute is just a popular myth, I'm afraid. Wikipedia has a decent enough summary here. Googling on "two fingers Agincourt myth" turns up plenty of other sites.

The poor guy has no chance in hell, and this thread is proving it.

RobtE: Actually it is a myth that it is a myth... let me reproduce what I said on the relevant Facebook group:

The link where is says there is no evidence the story about the gesture dating to the Hundred Years War existed before 1978 is bollocks. I was told that story by my grandmother in the 1960's and she was told it by her grandmother, Rita, whose ancestry was from Cheshire, which was the heartland of England's tradition of archery. That does not prove the original thesis but it *does* disprove the notion is is a very recent story.

The way I heard it from her as a wee lad was not that the fingers were cut off by the French if they were captured, just that the longbowmen would taunt the French by waving the fingers they were going to draw their bows with.

So fie upon post-modern scholarship! V

Who knew Hugh Hewitt was such a mensch? And busy too: law professor, talk show host, writer and ....publican.

The comments here and, in particular in the local paper mentioned, show how we have got into this mess. Too many "me,me,me" idiots who have no tolerance of others and want to rule over all. Liberty means nothing to these people, except of course that they will do as they want and sod everyone else. I have not smoked for years but I still enjoy the waft of the smoke. As for the councillor, is he a fit and proper person to serve in any position, not in my book.

NY State has the same "No-smoking-in-bars" law and many of the bars have a simple solution, you pay to use an ashtray.
The money they collect from that goes to pay the fines.

This reminds me of a business here in Chicago that I'm now sure to frequent at least once a month.

Our busy-body city council decided it was within their purview to ban the sale of foie gras within the city limits, so the owner of an "encased meats emporium" gladly told them where to stick it by serving up a foie gras hot dog:
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/food/261597,cst-nws-gras18.article

Suffice it to say, his restaurant is well worth the trip, if you don't mind the half-hour queue out the door stretching around the block. The fine (and it's publicity) more than paid off.

"[P.S. For our US readers, 'two fingers' is the British version of 'flipping the bird' and a time-honoured gesture of defiance.]"

Ok, so what's a "Prat." Obviously not a compliment.

The issue with the politcal prat award would be to decide who gets it each year. I mean, there are so many good choices!

In (at least western) Canada, we call "the bird" the "Trudeau Salute" in commemoration of the former PM's open disdain for the western half of the country.

Ah when a national leader could openly flip off protesters. At least you KNEW what they thought of you.

Perry -

A myth about a myth, eh? Sort of a meta-myth, then. It sounds like the first line of a joke: "I meta-myth latht Thaturday night..."

BTW, I didn't say anything about the story of the Agincourt origins dating only from the 1970's. Far from it. In fact, the V sign seems to pre-date Agincourt. If true, that would rule out the story of the Agincourt origin.

The voters in "Blue State" Oregon just voted down an increase in the cigarette tax, even though the money was to go for more health welfare for "the children".

So there is hope still. The Statists are not having it all their own way.