Chilling. They are very brave men who deserved a bit more support.

Primitive little shits. They cannot tolerate an opposing opinion.

Why did the video keep stopping?

From the video it doesn't look like more than a couple of hundred protesters. I especially enjoyed their whining "They're provoking us!" What a flashback to Monty Python! "Help, help, we're bein' oppressed!" I just hope that video is widely distributed around France and Europe in general.

Yes, those men were very, very brave. I would not stand in the middle of a bunch of demonstrating Muslims, even if I had a gun. These people cannot control themselves.

Yeah - "Someone's provoking us!"

Please, Miss, someone's provoking us and we are unable to deal with it in an adult fashion, Miss! Miss!

What a group of jokers.

To paraphrase Verity: Big Brass Ones.

"Someone's provoking us!".. Seems to me like a call out to the Political Correctness Police; the one who uphold your "Right to not be Offended"

Maybe the black policeman was from the Political Correctness Police! I must say, given that he was alone, he handled it very well, although if he had been from the Fashion Police, he would have had to arrest them all and cart them away from the centre of Paris on grounds of taste. He would have needed back-up.

But we need to learn that Muslims have a Bill of Special Rights. These include the Right Not to Be Provoked; the Right Not to Be Offended; the Right to Unearned Respect; the Right to Censor Others.

As we now know from experience, in London the dynamic duo would have been arrested for provoking a breach of the peace.

But we need to learn that Muslims have a Bill of Special Rights. These include the Right Not to Be Provoked; the Right Not to Be Offended; the Right to Unearned Respect; the Right to Censor Others.

Don't give Toni any ideas. He's been reading the Koran you know; it must be true, he said so.

John K - Oh? I thought he just carried it round as a poncy fashion accessory. Read it in the original Arabic, did he?

Karumba, hats off to the men with big kahoonas. Fingers crossed the footage gets shown here sometime, although the MSM has predictaby moved on toot de sweet. The site of a hairy old muslim chasing down the street, shouting "homosexuals!" as a term of abuse is enough to turn a Leftist schizo.

What would be the collective noun for these gits? We have a gaggle of geese, a pack of hounds, a flock of birds, a pride of lions, ... how about an outrage of Muslims? A provocation of Muslims?

Verity: How about an explosion of muslims?

Oh, v good!

How about a bunch of wankers?

Verity

What would be the collective noun for these gits?

Bradford

Is this the Enlightenment's answer to the suicide bomber? The suicidal civil libertarian?

Hi Everyone.

Just recently foundt his blog so this is my first posting. And I thought I would start out with a translated version of a commentary from Per Nyholm of Jyllands-Posten. I find it rather intersting with a good dose of humour. Hope you'll enjoy it.

We are being pissed upon
by Per Nyholm
Jyllands-Posten
February 10, 2006

I think it was the long departed H.C. Hansen, one of last century's great Danish statesmen who once - while the communists were demonstrating in front of Christiansborg [Ed: the seat of parliament] - threw his gaze across the palace square and remarked: "I will not be pissed upon."

Then he did what was necessary.

I feel that currently my beloved country is being pissed upon rather too much. Denmark has not been neglecting its duties on the international stage. We have supported poor people with acts and advice, we have worked for peace, we have sent soldiers, policemen and experts to all the far flung corners of the world. We have democracy, a state of law and a welfare state. Not all is perfect, but we harbor no malice to our fellow man.

And yet Denmark is being pissed upon. The spokesman of the US State Department is pissing on Denmark, the British Secretary of Foreign Affairs is pissing on Denmark, the President of Afghanistan is pissing on Denmark, the Goverment of Iraq is pissing on Denmark, other Moslem regimes are pissing on Denmark. In Gaza, where Danes for years have provided humanitarian relief, crazed Imams encourage people to cut off the hands and heads of the cartoonists who made the caricatures of Mohammed for the Jyllands-Posten newspaper.

Excuse my choice of words, but all this pissing is pissing me off.

What's happening? I am not so much referring to the threats against Danish citizens and Danish commerce. Nor are the burnt down Embassies what occupies my mind. I am thinking of a word that keeps popping up whenever the Mohammed cartoons are mentioned.

That word is BUT. A sneaky word. It's used to deny or relativize what one has just said.

How many times lately have we not heard people of power, The Formers of Opinion and other people say that of course we have freedom of speech, BUT.

They have said it, all of them, from Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary General to our own Bendt Bendtsen [ed: Danish Politician]. Once we had to be sensitive of the easily hurt feeling of the Nazis, then came the communists, now it is the Islamists. The reason I say 'Islamists' is that I don't for a moment believe all the world's Moslems are pissing on us. I think we are dealing with thugs, fools and misled people. Those are the ones we have to deal with, and then the chickenshit politicians.

The cartoons are no longer something the Jyllands-Posten can control. They have already been manipuleted and misrepresented to the point that few know what's going on and fewer know how to stop it. This affair is artifically keept buoyant in a sea of lies, suppressions of the truth, misconceptions, lunacy and hypocrisy, for which this newspaper bears no blame. The only thing the
Jyllands-Posten did was that it with a pin-prick made a boil of nastiness explode. It would have happened sooner or later. That it happened more than four months following the publication of the cartoons, raises a question of its own. Are we dealing with random events or with a staged clash of civilizations? One might hope for the former yet expect the latter.

That's why I say: Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech. There is no but.

Initially I was doubtful of the timeliness of publishing the cartoons. Later events have convinced me that it was both just and useful. That they are consistent with Danish law and Danish custom seem to me less important than this: that we now know that remote, primitive countries deem themselves justified in telling us what we can do. Unfortunately we also have to recognize
that governments close to us agree with them in the name of expedience.

The just is in the offensive this newspaper has launched in the name of Freedom of Speech, the useful in our newly acquired knowledge. Welcome to a brave, new world, where even our Prime Minister - in spite of his laudable firmness - must gaze out upon a scorched political landscape. It's true, as is custom, his friend in Washington, George Bush, condemns the torching of our embassies, but his Department of State allude to us being the guilty ones in this case. The suggestion that Danish troops might benefit the democratization is buried under the charred remains of our diplomatic representations in Beirut and Damascus.

Perhaps it's time we started mopping up this mess. Perhaps Editor-in-Chief Carsten Juste ought to remove his apology which has gone stale sitting so long on the front page of our internet edition and which does not seem to interest madmen. Perhaps our government ought to announce to Mona Omar Attia, the strange Ambassador of Egypt, that she is persona non grata.

Perhaps it ought to be announced to the ambassadors that have been called home to fictive consultations in the Middle East that they may spare themselves the cost of the return ticket.

To the degree it is possible, The Lying Imams ought probably to be expelled. And then we ought to make an effort for the Moslems who in a difficult situation have proven themselves to be true Citizens.

We, for our part, have no wish to be a burden for the arab governments. We will happily withdraw our soldiers, policemen and diplomats. If they think our money smells, we will stop our aid. Our trade must make do as well as it can. We promise to not bear a grudge and, in time, we will be glad to return, but we are through with the hypocrisy. We have better things to do than being pissed upon at our own expense.

Turn down our activity in the Middle East. This world holds other opportunities.

I see that Irish dhimmi-in-chief President Mary McAleese has said: "“We abhor the publication of those provocative cartoons, they were designed to provoke, they were designed to be rude, they were designed to inflame, they did all of those things,” she said. They were not designed to provoke blah blah blah. How can she fail to know that? Can she read? And why is she keeping this alive?

“Muslims have every right to feel angry,” she told reporters in the Saudi Red Sea city of Jeddah where she took part in an economic forum. Ah, in the Red Sea city of Jeddah ... hoping for some Saudi money, perchance, and willing to sell the Danes down the river for a few extra dinars? How disgusting. Dhimmi, dhimmi, dhimmi.

Yes, Jesper Thomsen - I posted the LINK to this yesterday, crediting the Emperor Mischa (Paypal be upon him).

Verity your collective noun "A seething"

"Are you out of your minds?!" ask the two officers.

Expressing their opinion in a free country. Clearly they are out of their minds.

Corporal Smith - Yes, a seething is good.

Could someone tell me what happened? It's clearly going to take months for this Difference Engine I'm working on here to display the video.

Brian it is two libertarians being insulted by homophobic muslims

Those are my type of nutty French guys. Well done for showing the marchers for what they truly are.

Hey, let's be fair here, "provocation" seems to be the average Euro's response to just about any slight, real or imagined, these days. Think about player celebrations in football: restricted because the fans - who hurl personal abuse for 90 minutes - might become unhinged when Fowler tries to snort up the touch line or the Neviller starts shaking his junk. Such actions are used to excuse all sorts of fan behavior and must be reported to all the proper authorities who then must investigate, wring hands, pontificate and restrict the players lest someone somewhere be provoked.
So maybe Muslims are adapting to modern European culture, just not the particularly attractive parts.

Corporal Smith

Brian it is two libertarians being insulted by homophobic muslims

They'll just be 'muslims' then.

In Arab countries people live in fear of their government and avoid involvement with it because they recognize them as the parasitic bloodsuckers they are. When those same people move to Western countries they simple copy prevalent local attitudes which regard government as a source of money and jobs to be manipulated by interest groups. Muslims seeking special treatment by government are merely the latest, most high profile group to be asking for something from the all powerful government. We will always have this sort of problem until government is cut down to size and can no longer deliver the goodies to vocal interest groups.

Brian - they were standing at the side of the march, quietly holding a representation of the Danish flag. This was too much for the marching Muzzies, who stepped up the seething. Frankly, if I'd been those guys, I'd have cut and run at this point, but they stood their ground. Of course, bullies find defiance very disconcerting and they started shouting, "You're provoking us!" Well! The nerve! Then they came up with their cunning trump card and started shouting, "Homosexuals!" That's when a police van drove up and an officer made them disperse. Our heroes were unharmed.

Go Pete_London!

"Homophobic Muslims"? Sounds a little like:
a new innovation;
an amazing marvel;
return the book back to the library;
at this moment in time;
the one single reason;
the single most quoted reason;
make a beeline straight there;
an added bonus

or even

a virulent Islamic protest

Tautologytastic!

A few hundred (or even a few thousand) demonstrators do not make coexistance impractical.

What matters is what the majority of Muslims think - are they in favour of freedom of speech or not?

The Muslims I have heard on the radio (who have been called "moderates" - indeed even a professional comic I heard a few hours ago on B.B.C. Radio 4's "Beyond Belief" show) have said things like "we do not tolerate racist humour, so we should not tolerate this" - thus using one sort of censorship to justify another.

If most "moderate" Muslims think like this there is little hope. However, I do not know if most Muslims think like this.

According to Dale Amon most Iranians do not support the campaign against the Danish cartoonists, and I would like to believe he is correct.

But I have seen no hard evidence on either side.

I can understand why there is no polling evidence available for Iran - but what about Britain?

I fully accept that opinion polls are not perfect - but they are better than nothing.

What are the polling numbers for Muslims in Britain?

Do most Muslims here want the cartoons banned or not?

Also what are the poll numbers for Muslims in other Western countries?

More citizens of Seethistan over in Peshawar holding up posters in English saying: If you stand against our dear Islam you sure we will crush you.

Oooh, err. I wonder how the Seethistanis are going to crush the West.

Umm... I know this is way off-topic, but I'm just wondering if somebody's going to post an article shortly, relating to tonight's unsuccessful vote?

I'm with John K in that I think this would be likely to be a breach of the peace in the UK. I'm guessing that the reason that it wasn't in France (hardly a speech friendly state), is that they'd have become a massive cause celebre and raised tensions significantly more if they'd gotten a day in court and suchlike.

The word "provocation" seemed to be jargon, spoken more calmy by what looked to be more seasoned protestors, particularly the one who was pointing and apparently just letting the police know. I'm guessing that the Muslims were pretty confident, and likely reasonably so, that making a show of force and alerting the police was likely to be sufficient to get the "provoking" voices arrested. One notable thing is that the concerted harrasment was probably a good strategy on their part, since they were in a significantly less vulnerable legal situation. If their dozens of harsh terms (we don't hear most of them) were to elicit a single harsh retort, then that would be invaluable evidence to take the infidels down. I think that my point is that the Muslim response here is the rational and most effective one, and probably a wholly law abiding one (under a legal realist definitition of the term). It really isn't the Muslims who deserve the greater part of the blame here, but a government that protects rights in this kind of selective manner. Everyone needs a First Amendment. Everywhere.

Well, you have to ask what kind of person takes a counterprotest as being a provocation. When Rosa Parks wouldn't give up her seat, that was taken as provocation by some, but she was right to do it, because what sort of person is provoked by a black woman sitting on a bus?

K, the liberal lefty.

It really isn't the Muslims who deserve the greater part of the blame here, but a government that protects rights in this kind of selective manner. Everyone needs a First Amendment. Everywhere.

I agree. But let's do save some a lot of the blame for the muslims all the same. Just because the tactic is available to them doesn't justify its use. By using it, they show by their actions what their words don't say: that they really do want "special rights" for themselves.

Speaking of which - I note the absence of our friendly neighborhood troll Murtaza on this thread.

Verity, in endorsing Jesper's link, or in the comments to Perry's link to the Reuters story, did you or anyone else link to this volokh post? It links to the actual transcript of McCormack's statements. I think it's considerably more supportive of speech than Reuters makes out. I get the impression that there's a strong vested interest in the media reporting, as the BBC did, that "Western government statements have been remarkably uniform" and suggesting that the uniform position is that the media must do what they did and not publish. The BBC's quote makes it seem like the US views it as a balancing test "Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images or any other religious belief. But it is important that we also support the rights of individuals to express their freely held views." This is clearly and explicitly not what McCormack said. Even accepting that BBC journalists can't be expected to read the original texts if there's a Reuters synopsis to rely on, they must have known that the threats Jack Straw made are not reproducable in the US, where they have a first amendment and where they respect the constitutional rights they have (no notwithstanding clause like the Canadians or Article 15 of the Euro Convention on Human Rights).

James of England (???):
The "leaders" of these people have stated very clearly that they would like to kill us. The soi-disant moderate muslims are not on our side. They simply wait to see which way the wind blows & will join the "seethers" should they be successful in subverting our hard-fought-for values & traditions.
The "chat" goes on endlessly and.....who would have thought it....we have to take a lesson from two VERY brave Frenchmen to remind us that this is OUR country & burghers & guests should conduct themselves by OUR standards; not imported mediaeval bigotry.
I never thought I would live long enough to see this apathetic nadir of my land of birth. God help our children & grandchildren....we are squandering their birthright.....Shame, shame, shame on us weasels.

Joshua: Absolutely. I think that the government makes theirs the rational course of action, but when the rational course of action is to be a bastard about something, there's an argument for tempering self-interest with decency and these thugs can and should be condemned for failing to do so. Particularly since they were campaigning for people to excercise restraint in their speech.

Permanent Ex-pat: It sounds like you're disagreeing with me, but I can't for the life of me see where, other than a couple of nit-picks (two frenchmen or one frog and a dutch american?) It sounds more like we agree. It even looks like you're mocking my online nick, which is somewhat similar to yours (although I plan on being in the UK for a few months this fall). Were you disagreeing with me, or merely agreeing argumentatively?

James of England - in referring to Jesper's Thomson's post, I pointed out that he raced in with his important contribution and if he had checked the blog first, he would have seen that I had already referenced this the day before, and in the format the owner of the blog directs us to use: a link.

I have absolutely no idea who McCormick is and how he fits in here, but he doesn't appear to have anything to do with the guest columnist in the Jyllands-Posten and his column which was translated from the Danish by a blogger at The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler. McCormick doesn't sound like a Danish name to my ears, so I truly have no idea how he fits in and why you're addressing a question to me.

permanent expat, I agree with you. May I suggest though, without taking away from any of your points, that the two brave fellows in the Seeth-o-rama were Danish (and probably still are), not French, given that their names are Erik and Arthur Wneir.

James of England again - you seem confused. How did a Dutch American get into the middle of all this? What are you talking about?

Always argumentative.
The endless reams of erudite talk & opinion & quoting parliamentary acts etc.......I admit by folk better educated than me.....continues unabated.
Our leaders are useless & we poor idiots have elected them.
We have imported a problem with which we are obviously incapable of dealing....or are too PC/cowardly to address it in our OWN interest.
Whether or not I agree with you personally is of no consequence. Your nick....a josh (Is that still allowed in the UK?)
My bind is that it's about three minutes before midnight & the point of no return and........?
Never mind, chaps; let's just waffle & it'll go away.
Is there absolutely no collective memory of perils past?

permanent expat - I agree that it that the midnight hour draws nigh, but the British people, and the British press, have been neutered by the Gramscians. The government is the last organisation that is interested in protecting Britain and it actively works against the interests of the British people.

What do you suggest? Do as you did and I did and get out? I miss Britain, but the situation has worsened considerably since I left four years ago. People aren't even allowed to stand up against the Muslim "demonstrators" threatening our country. Islam is a terrible threat - a threat of a return to the Dark Ages - but it is convenient for the Blair regime.

Moving to Denmark is an attractive idea, though. Though like the rest of the EU, I'm sure it is nightmarishly expensive.

Verity: Brave Danes in France..........mea maxima. Infallibility was never my forte. Consider my knuckles suitably wooden-spooned

Verity: McCormack is the State dept. Spokesman who is misquoted by the Jyllands-Postern guest collumnist. He's relevant because the misquotation continues to perpetuate a myth that the European and American governmental responses were similar. They weren't, no matter how convenient it would be for the MSM to believe that the governments were all behind them. This isn't to say that the big name US MSM weren't pathetic, but the government did not compromise and stood firm in its continuing position of rhetorical support for people of faith and practical support for freedom of the press that has long been the finest in the world.

It was a fine collumn, and reasonable for a Dane not to do much primary research in a foreign language, particularly not when the Reuters synopsis had been so uniformly picked up by other Media.

The "dutch american" thing was a brain fart. The post described them as a Frenchman and a Danish-American. I meant more or less the same quibble as you did (although if they were both Danes, then I'll bow to your superior familiarity).

btw, in another post I note that you're in Mexico. I'm in San Diego, spend some time in TJ, and will spend a couple of weeks in Guadalajara next year. Are you someone I can look to for local expertise on next year's trip?

James of England - is Jim Croce's place still going strong, the one run by his widow in the Gaslamp district? Somewhere else in SD is also the place I ate my best forerib of beef anywhere, any time, even better than Kobe, great little city...

James of England - I'm not familiar with these gentlemen, although I like their blog - but if they are brothers and both have a Danish name, I felt it wouldn't be out of place to say they were Danish.

Tony: I believe so, although I've never eaten there.
Verity: I'll go with that.

I found the Per Nyholm commentary here.

Jesper Thomsen - Now all you have to do is learn how to embed a link in your post and people will actually go there.

As Jesper Thomsen's post was the last, I did copy and paste the address, and it's a rather good commentary. (Link) Worth clicking on.

Jesper Thomsen apparently got the hang of it before my last post.

Bravo!

What hasn't been mentioned ... I found another account of this incident on another blog and managed to lurch around in it in French. One of the younger demonstrators, as he passed our heroes, leaned over and said in a low voice, "I admire your courage." Interesting.

"Those are my type of nutty French guys."

Just a technicality: they both have double nationality in fact. Arthur Wneir is American/French, while Erik Svane is American/Dane.

I'll let you debate if it makes a difference with respect to the brass thing and the Gallic nuts...

dissident - Thanks. I have read coverage of this on several blogs and everyone assigns different nationalities to these two fine guys.

When you abort your children and import evil to replace them, what do you expect?

American Rage

When you abort your children and import evil to replace them, what do you expect? American Rage

Meaning what exactly?