Jonathan writes: "... just how grimy and cheerless the environ developments are. These are not places a sane person should spend a lot of time in, given the choice. "

But, Jonathan - they do have a choice: Get a job and move into better quarters. They choose to stay in the ghettoes because they can hang out with the the guys all day, smoking and looking cool and jeering and calling names at non-Muslim girls for not wearing a hijab. For Muslim girls not wearing a hijab, this displeases them and they burn her with lighted cigarettes or gang rape her and leave her in a dumpster as punishment. Their mothers cook for them and do their laundry. What more could a young pasha want?

Why would they want to leave their burrows when they're the little lords of all they survey, and the state pays them just for being alive?

Verity

You are absolutely right. The first change France must make to bring civilization to those Muslim areas is to stop their welfare payments.

Actually, Jake, France did make the first, and very intelligent and brave decision to ban the hijab in schools. That was step number one. (And one which most Muslim women of around age 40 and below approved on - in polls taken away from the Muslim menfolk. Having suffered the separation from their classmates of being forced to wear the hijab in school themselves, they don't want it for their daughters.)

Next step should be limits on the time an able working man can remain on welfare. Of course, that would cause more riots, such is now the attitude of entitlement of these aliens.

By the way, no one working in a government building in France, from national government to small town mairies, can come to work in a hijab.

A thought just struck me - do Muslim drag queens dress up in burqas? Not a lot to work with ...

The Eurabian civil war has begun.

In Denmark too, BTW:

http://viking-observer.blogspot.com/2005/10/war-in-france-war-in-denmark.html

Deliberately planned weeks ago as a response to some mildly insulting cartoons a Danish newspaper printed of Muhammad.

Yep! time to go to the mat with these goddam scum!
Just on general principles!!
As a great writer once said.
My two French aunts would agree. That's why they've lived in Wales since 1940.

I agree that one thing to admire about France is that they do insist on immigrant assimilation. They take it a bit far for my taste - but I'm sure I feel better about the way they handle it than the way the US does (blame ourselves for everything and encourage any kind of public display of foreign loyalty available). And Canada is just all kinds of ridiculous with the "cultural mosaic" crap.

That said - I can't feel enthusiastic about public dress codes. The anti-hijab law is wrong: people should be allowed to dress as they like. It's maybe true that muslim women feel "liberated" by this, but it's a false liberation - since it's ultimately not the government's responsibility to help them stand up to their husbands and the oppressive traditions of their aggressive religion. Public expression must be protected - regardless of medium (provided no one's rights are violated in the process).

Most of what is being said here could equally as well have been said about e.g. the poor in Liverpool in the 1980s. Issues about race / religion / immigration play a part but remember that there are white / Christian / natives going along for the ride now in France, just as there were in Bradford in 2001 and Verity's comments about the mentality of the rioters apply equally as well to them.

The root cause of this is an overmighty state. A state that wants to control every aspect of its subjects' lives through welfare and conducts identity checks which irritate people enough to make them want to risk their lives to escape.

Erm, maaaaybe. I tend to think that the rioters probably aren't trying to escape the welfare checks, though. As another commenter pointed out, if that were the case, they are all perfectly capable of finding jobs. Admittedly, the job market in France probably isn't the best in Europe, but there's enough work around to keep most of these revelers off social help.

What's causing these riots is irrational at its root. Sure - poverty, being socially marginalized, whatever - these are sparks for the powderkeg - but the fact of actual rioting can't be explained away very easily. I think it's a complex of causes, not the least of which is an undue, irrational, and unrealistic sense of entitlement. They're not rioting to "escape," they're rioting to have paradise handed to them on a platter.

Ain't gonna happen.

Robert Alderson writes:

"The root cause of this is an overmighty state. A state that wants to control every aspect of its subjects' lives through welfare and conducts identity checks which irritate people enough to make them want to risk their lives to escape."

I await the imminent Jewish riots in Golders Green.

I hear the Amish in Pennsylvania are starting to get pretty ticked off, too.

And the Mormons are just about to blow also. Don't go anywhere near Utah anyone -- they're lethal when they get riled.

GCooper, Susan,

Golders Green, Lancaster County and Utah don't have an overmighty state which treats its subjects as poor dependent vassals. People there get up and work for a living because it is the best choice open to them and there is real economic freedom.

Islamic fundamentalism does play a part in these riots but it is not the biggest cause. Poor people who don't think they have much of a future have rioted throughout history various causes exploit that tendency.

True, Robert, but it's funny how one certain religion seems to attract irredentism and civil wars like shit attracts flies. Add France to the growing list: Nigeria, Indonesia, Philippines, Israel, Sudan, Russia, The Balkans, The Indian Sub-Continent. Did I leave anybody out?

Thailand, I left out Thailand.

Them nasty old Buddhists just can't get along with the peaceful and tolerant you-know-what down there in the south.

Robert Alderson writes:

"Golders Green, Lancaster County and Utah don't have an overmighty state which treats its subjects as poor dependent vassals."

What utter, total rot! The same rules pertain in Golders Green as pertain in Bradford. And they most certainly pertained in the East End in the early years ofthe 20th centruy, when Jewish immigrants were busily working their way out of the area.

You're just making the usual Left/liberal excuses for bad behaviour, while turning a convenient eye to the many exceptions that prove the opposite case.

The poor french,one would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.

Susan wonders:

" Did I leave anybody out?"

Denmark, apparently. The beardied crazies have been at it there, too.

Of course, it's just a coincidence....

I think you meant to link to No Pasaran. The "Merde in France" blog went dormant a year ago when he joined the "No Pasaran" group blog.

I posted the link about Denmark upthread. Didn't see the need to repeat myself G. Coop.

I'm not worried about Denmark. They're kicking butt on all sorts of fronts that the rest of the West don't dare even talk about.

@joshua
"And Canada is just all kinds of ridiculous with the "cultural mosaic" crap."

Ever been to Canada Joshua? More legal immigrants per capita than almost any country on earth, and general harmony. It's a learning experience.

Susan writes:

"I posted the link about Denmark upthread. Didn't see the need to repeat myself G. Coop."

My bad.

Fiona writes:

" More legal immigrants per capita than almost any country on earth, and general harmony. It's a learning experience. "

Be patient. By all precedents your turn will come.

Robert Alderson is correct to identify the real problem as being an overmighty state - and I fear that this is a problem of which the West really now has no means of divesting itself. The state, in effect, through the welfare rolls and gigantic public sectors, pays people to vote for them. This disenfranchises the wealth creators.

I've said before that public sector workers should sacrifice the vote in return for the financial security they enjoy. And long-term welfare recipients, as wards of the state and thus, technically, juveniles, should also be denied the vote. We're on a hiding to the end of having any control whatsoever over our governments unless they are reined in very soon.

Joshua - France is a secular nation. They don't allow religious symbolism on public property. Anyone who wants to work in a mairie knows that they can't parade their religiosity on property paid for by taxpayers who may not agree with it. In some states in Germany, teachers aren't allowed to wear hijabs.

PS - The Danes are kicking ass. Two thousand years and Viking blood still flowing in their veins. I love it!

Fiona what dreamland do you occupy in the Great White North?
Come to the Niagara region where I live which has had unprecedented Islamic immigration in the past ten years. You'd be hard pressed to find any of these people in the workforce but you will find them in large numbers photographing the Niagara gorge hydro installations with their cam corders.
Furthermore although they've hardly been here a decade they spew anti-Jewish rhetoric and did I forget to mention that six - yes six recent immigrant young folk from St. Catharines are languishing in jails in Singapore and other overseas places being held on terrorist charges.
Finally the last year I taught at the University of Montreal I nearly fell off my chair as two young men passed my desk embroiled in a fierce argument - one a Quebecois, the other a recent Islamic immigrant. What caused my temporary unhinging? I heard the latter say and I'm not making up this delusional nonsense - we (meaning he and fellow Islamics) had to come here and build your country up for you.
How can one possibly deal with such insanity except to place the purveyors of such as far from our civilization as possible.

Generally spot-on re Muslims, but don't give buddhists a good name by mistake. They only thing they have against muslims is interfering with their waging of civil wars against themselves.

To be fair, a lot of them probably can't get a job - although there is plenty of dishwashing etc out there, there is no real manufacturing sector left. But a lot more of them could than do, certainly.

Patrick, I'm sure there's plenty of manufacturing which has moved out of Europe to Pakistan, Morocco and Algeria to provide these individuals with work. The only problem is, they would have to return to Pakistan, Morocco and Algeria to secure those jobs and those countries don't have available girls in low cut skirts with their thongs showing and low cut blouses with lacy bras showing. And probably no welfare if you quit your job to pursue your vocation of watching daytime TV and standing around on street corners with your mates. Hmmmm, sounds like employment in the manufacturing sector may be a non-starter.

Just saw a photo of the Danish prime minister Fogh Rasmussen on No Pasaran and I must say, a Viking BABE. He told 11 ambassadors from a little cabal of Muslim countries who wanted to demand action because some newspapers printed cartoons of Mohammad, to get lost, citing freedom of the press. He refused to meet with 11 accredited ambassadors to discuss curtailments to the freedom of the Danish press. I love it!

Sorry. The photo of Rasmussen is in The Telegraph, not No Pasaran. (Link)

Don't quite understand Patrick.
What civil wars are Buddhists waging against themselves?
As I understand it Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion. That's what they kept telling me in Sri Lanka anyway.
It in no way equates with the chucklesome RELIGION of Submit or Die.
Buddhists , in the main couldn't give a monkey's what you believe. They are intent on their path and have no reason or , indeed wish , for you to believe it too.
They figure you either get it or you don't.
Big sharp swords shouldnt come into it.

RAB - my thoughts exactly. I was wondering what Patrick was going on about with his civil war comment, too. There is a schism of sorts in the practice of Buddhism between Theravada and Mahayana - Zen Buddhism fits somewhere, too - but they all get along reasonably well. For example, Theravada monks still venerate the Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of Mahayana Buddhism, as a highly realised Buddhist.

Try getting a committed Orthodox Christian to venerate the Pope. Many of them believe he's a manifestation of the devil.

RAB - Agree. Buddhists haven't the slightest interest in what other people believe. Neither do Hindus. And it's a matter of absolute indifference to Jews what people outside their faith believe in. And, other than a tiny prosyletising minority, neither do Christians want to interfere (by words, not swords) in the religious beliefs of other people.

Hmmm, that just leaves one group ... as always ...

>>I watched the British Channel 4 news programme tonight, which devoted about five minutes to the mayhem, now in its seventh consecutive night.

and how many hours of coverage would there be if it was the Washington riots?

that blessed euro social model seems to get the volume turned down when needed.

The mainstream news has been full of the usual PC hogwash about "this is all caused by social deprivation and discrimination against Muslims" etc etc whilst perceptive social commentators like Dalrymple know how to expose this line of argument for the BS that it patently is.

Jonathan Fenby (author of 'France on the Brink') said last night on CNN that the number of cars that have been torched so far this year in France is 28,000. It's worse that even I had dared to imagine...

But, Verity, you really should ask yourself the question "Why? What are we doing to make them do this?"

I am so sick of hearing progressives ask these questions. Yet it's standard fare at a lefty love-in.

Tim Blair amusingly tagged them "why-ners".

I'm somewhat surprised that none of the comments reflect a reading of the Theodore Dalrymple link. He ascribes the problems to totally differenct reasons - nothing to do woth religion.

Verity, in response to your remark right at the very top of this thread, note that I said "no sane person....". Many of the people who choose to live there seem to have a few slates loose, from what I can gather. I agree wholeheartedly with you about the motivations of some - not all - of the people who live there.

And of course it goes without saying that life is particularly grim for women in these areas. Choice does not come into the equation.

I also agree that the French welfare system only encourages this sort of mindless pathology.

John Rippengal, I have read the Dalrymple article I linked to and I did not suggest in my post that it focussed primarily on the Islamic faith of the people who live in the areas he wrote about. He does mention it, however.

There is a good link to Theodore Dalrymple's most recent article on the mindset and motivations of some young Muslim men in European cities plus a good compendium of links to other articles on the Paris situation - and related stories from Denmark and Brussels - here, by Paul Belien, editor-in-chief of The Brussels Journal.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article4709.html

Rippengal:

Dalrymple does ascribe it to their religion and culture, although he gives a weak (and implausible) nod to economic reasons. Read it again.

Any who view this as a matter of economics, should remember that Indians in Britain are much better off than the Pakistanis and much less prone to civil disobedience, although having run through the same gauntlet of discrimination and even having been mistaken for the other often enough.

In the end, discrimination is always just an excuse--it has never held back minority cultures who truly prize accomplishment. Chinese are just such a minority culture in many places in the Pacific region, including America and Indonesia, and treated shabbily even to this day in places like Malaysia, yet they form a very successful segment of the populace in all these places; meanwhile the Jews have been hated minorities nearly everywhere, constantly ever since the diaspora, but have never needed a welfare net and a shoulder to cry on. Only the cultures whose own slovenly attributes contribute to their stagnation need to hold forth the false spectre of discrimination as their meal ticket to new government entitlements.

and how many hours of coverage would there be if it was the Washington riots?

Washington? Har. If there were riots in the US that had been going on for 7 days running, it'd be getting the full-blown Katrina treatment.

that blessed euro social model seems to get the volume turned down when needed.

Indeed it does.

By the way, I challenge those trying to establish the root causes for the unrest among the Muslim "youths" in Europe to broaden their view a bit.

It is not enough for you to speak of unemployment, discrimination, and overmighty states: in order to be taken seriously, you must be able to develop a kind of "unified field theory" for Muslim unrest--a theory that is broad enough in its conclusions so as to cover the sources of this unrest, not only in the developed West, but also in places such as Indonesia and Thailand, among others on Susan's list, places where in each case an entirely separate set of circumstances surrounds the restless Muslim populations.

Expand your elegant theories to those restless and strife-ridden places where no such fashionable overmightiness of states can be said to exist, and even to places where all the discrimination, if it does exist at all, is directed by the large Muslim majorities towards peaceful minorities of Buddhists and Christians. When a social critique can unify the rioting in Paris with the beheadings of Indonesian schoolgirls, only then will it have potential validity.

Shalmanessar, you have made a number of excellent points. I'll only add that I am a bit wary of "unified field theory" explanations of anything outside of physics and the demise of Manchester United Football Club.

What I love about the coverage of the French insurrection in the US media - now that they've finally got around to it, after a week of arson, looting, &c, &c - is how they refer to the French government as 'conservative'.

I'm not making this up. Watch the CNN coverage.

One of the most relentlessly socialist, statist governments in the world, which taxes its citizens until they squeak and has never found a program of government control it didn't like - but when a bunch of Muslim soap-dodging spongers start burning cars and shooting at firefighters - now, all of a sudden, it's because the government is 'conservative'.

You can't make this stuff up.

llater,

llamas

PS I think that commentators like Dalrymple and our very own Verity have much the right way of it when it comes to the root causes of these sorts of outbreaks.

The great and the good pontificate enlessly about discrimination, alienation, hopelessness and a thousand other high-minded '-ism's', but these are mostly projections - college professors postulating the things which would make them go out and behave in this way.

What is so hard for them to grasp is the idea that maybe many young Muslim men - indeed, many young men of whatever religious background - rather like the idea of not having to do much work, hanging out with their buddies, drinking or doing dope, ogling pretty girls and trying to conquer them, and the odd spot of mindless violence. Verity's 'young pashas' remark is spot on - these vapid, shiftless young sh*theads are, literally, the kings of their domains, and every now and then, they have to go to war to prove their position. Lozells last week, 'les cites' this week, next week - who knows? It's just that Muslim culture is often peculiarly well-adapted to the cultivation of this particular breed of young, male wastrels, with its common emphases on male superiority, the place of women, and the peculiar simultaneous dichotomies of Islam, where a young man can break every one of the rules about his own behaviour but can still be honoured for murdering a female relative who goes out without a headscarf.

I live not a million miles from Dearborn, MI, which has the largest Arab population anywhere outside the Middle East, and even after generations of integration and the generally-healthy influences of US culture and the diversity of the immigrants there, the area still produces the recognizable stereotype of the 'young pasha'. 19 years old, exquisitely groomed, fancy car, ladies' man, no job, lives at home, mother cooks and cleans for him, his entire life revolves around drinking, partying and chasing women.

Around here, of course, the 'young pashas' go on to work for their uncles at the party store or the gas station, and most of them move on from this recognized phase of their lives. In 'les cites' - apparently not.

llater,

llamas

Hasn't rioting - on a local level, and terrorism - on a national level, been proven as being one hundred percent successful as a means of extracting concessions and other favourable treatment from 'the powers that be'.

It is hard to find any incidence since WWl, where such tactics have failed, whether the reason for the discontent is fair and reasonable, or totally idiotic, matters little, the 'powers that be', will ultimately concede the day, all in the interests of, so-called 'public safety'. Anything rather than actually cure the problem.

That most mayhem is caused between immigrants and indigenes, would indicate that the fashion for multiculturism really does not work - for whatever reason, particularly when indulged in 'en masse'.

But then, the politicians know best - don't they?

Llamas,

"but when a bunch of Muslim soap-dodging spongers start burning cars "

the irony of this is that they have not just *started*.

According to Jonathan Fenby (author of 'France on the Brink') last night on CNN, the number of cars that have been torched so far this year in France is 28,000.

Llamas,

"Lozells last week, 'les cites' this week, next week - who knows?"

You've missed out the Danish riots of the last few days (well, they've had very little international coverage) and the 'steaming' of a whole block of shops in Brussels central shopping district this week when scores of 'youths' barricaded the road, shop-lifted, robbed and smashed up cafes with impunity before the hapless police eventually responded (when the shop-lifters had departed) to emergency calls from terrified shop-keepers...

Unlike Jon I think Paris smells like urine and is full of vile people. It expensive and dirty. The only reason people thinks its "romantic" is because they are told to.

I take great pleasure in seeing rioting in France. Considering the smug rubbish coming from the French about everything "Anglo-Saxon" its rather wonderful to watch their distress. The next time France falls to foreign forces no one is going to really care.

Burn Paris Burn!

Andrew Ian Dodge,

"Considering the smug rubbish coming from the French about everything "Anglo-Saxon" its rather wonderful to watch their distress."

Yes, except it's not the distress of the political elites in their leafy suburbs - whom I guess are the targets of your tongue-in-cheek invective and who are very well protected, thank you, from the mobs - but the appalling distress of ordinary, law-abiding Parisians who are unfortunate to have to share the areas getting torched with those doing the torching. I should think that worrying about their property / local school being destroyed is weighing rather more heavily on their minds just now than abstract debates about the pros and cons of Anglo-Saxonism vs 'dirigisme'.

Two things surprised me in this story. It wasn't the headline "Riots, unrest, violence etc." This is to be expected by anyone who isn't a multi-culti with their heads firmly inserted up their backsides.

Firstly, when this story had been running for about four or five days, the BBC and Sky channels felt it impossible to explain what could possibly be the cause of the Paris riots. In all the reports I saw the rioters were simply referred to as "youths". OK, it may have been obvious that North Africans and/or Islam featured strongly, but this information was being suppressed as long as possible by the media. Shocking.

Secondly, it's interesting to see how far our ruling elites will tolerate mayhem rather than admit that their multi-culti obsession might be ill judged. I fear the French example shows that we have some way to go before realisation dawns.

Perhaps it's just as well Nulabour have begun to crack down on the National Front. Right wing organisations are sure to gain more support as society fragments.

Andrew Ian Dodge, old chap, you sound like Denis Leary on crack. And remarks like "Burn Paris Burn" are awful.

Stop press: I just watched the BBC news a few minutes ago, and the social engineers, sorry journalists, are still referring to the rioters as "youths".
Sadly, the BBC interviewed a French politician and the big secret got out. The politician described the rioters as "immigrants."
Oh well, at least the BBC tried to protect our sensibilities.

John East,

"Secondly, it's interesting to see how far our ruling elites will tolerate mayhem rather than admit that their multi-culti obsession might be ill judged. I fear the French example shows that we have some way to go before realisation dawns."

NuLab's decision to introduce censorship - the incitement to religious hatred Bill - in return for Muslim votes shows that their heads are still sinking into - rather than emerging from - the sand and that they cannot kick the multi-culti drug (they are, after all, surrounded by dealers).

NuLab politicians have not once publicly pledged to protect our hard-won freedoms of expression from domestic theocratic fascists - in fact, they welcomed the (now-knighted) Iqbal Sacranie - the man who said that "death was too good" for Salman Rushdie - to the highest echelons of the establishment.

Given this rewarding of those of the fatwa-tendency, it is little surprise that British artists who want to mount *controversial* (to Islamists) items at exhibitions have them withdrawn (see TATE Modern, recently) and that broadcasters and writers tend to think twice before offending Islamists, given their penchant for issuing (and carrying out) death threats (SEE Pim Fortuyn, Theo van Gogh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali etc).

Add to this that most European governments are so worried about a demographics-fuelled pensions crisis that they have come to rely on Muslim immigration as a fail safe and have therefore boxed themselves into a corner when it comes to being tough on Islamism.

Expect, therefore, a lot more inappropriate misguided 'outreach' by politicians to 'the Muslim community' rather than plain speaking boundary-setting about unacceptable law-breaking behaviour.

When voters start to get the feeling that the political establishment is no longer really commited to protecting them from the kind of chaos that is now taking place in Paris, they naturally start to look at the extreme right with different eyes. This is exactly what is now happening in France, Belgium and The Netherlands (and why the recent 'Non' and 'Nee' were carefully-aimed kicks in the teeth to the political establishment), the three European countries with large cities that most closely mirror the Parisian social conditions.

Several points: someone said above that the French in their leafy suburbs are well protected. This is absolutely incorrect. If that slime decided to ooze into a "leafy suburbs", the French police would be just as careful not to hurt any "youthful protesters" as they are in the banlieus. So, with respect, that is a silly remark based on nothing except your gut feeling.

David Bruno said the French government, like all short-sighted, blind-as-a-mole EU governments, is worried about its ability to pay off on pensions and taxes the French until the pips squeak. This is correct. Taxes are breathtaking. My house, which I just sold, was taxed at 33 1/3% despite the fact that when it was sold, it was my primary residence and I am a citizen of an EU country. This whack totally laid to waste my profit.

The French government, in all its ineptitude - god, no wonder the French have such an affinity with Jerry Lewis - started a scheme of paying off a big bonus for having a baby. As the indigenous French population, to survive taxes, needs two incomes to maintain any kind of standard of living, the white people do not really take advantage of these nice payoffs. Guess who does, though, and have flats equipped with double-doored refrigerators with ice-makers, giant plasma TVs and the latest in all other new technology.

Yes, the mothers are slaves to these grand young men, not only cleaning, marketing, cooking and doing their laundry, but ironing to their exacting standards. What they need is a clip round the ear which may tragically impact on a delicate part of their brain and accidentally render them dead.

Shalmanessar makes an ignorant statement which can't be allowed to stand. He/she says the Chinese are a minority in Malaysia and badly treated.

Population in Malaysia is around 58% (I may be slightly off, but this is close) native/Bhumiputera/Muslim. The next 25% or so is Chinese, mainly Buddhist or Christian. The rest is the Indians. All, under the constitution are treated equally and the rule of law is adhered to. There are a couple of differences built into the constitution (in other words it's not secret or under the table). One is, to protect the Bhumis, and in recognitition that they are not generally as bright as the two immigrant groups, they can get their university degree with 20% fewer marks than the Indians and Chinese. (This is why the Indians and Chinese, if they can afford it, send their children to Australia or Britain for their degrees, where the competition is fairer.)

If memory serves, they also get some advantages purchasing property, as this was their soil until the arrival of the immigrants 150 years ago.

Otherwise, tell a successful (and they all are) Chinese businessman drawing up in his chauffeur-driven top-of-the-line Mercedes limousine to the Shangri-La Hotel for dinner that he is disadvantaged and his eyes would turn quite round with amazement. There are Chinese and Indians in the government, heading departments and as MPs and ministers, and they both dominate the judiciary. So pulleeeze.

Andrew Ian Dodge, your remarks are vile. The ordinary French people have no choice. The vast public sector gets the laws it wants through sheer voting power.

David B - You would be amazed who votes for Marine LePen's party. I am talking professional people. It's their only way out. I think their percentage of the vote will go way up in the next election.

Regarding the referrence to Canada, waaaay up in the thread ... being Canadian, I have to say that the reason multiculturalism seems to be working (so far) in Canada is that we import our immigrants from everywhere. Thus, no one group gets big enough to exert serious influence on its own, the majority of groups have a strong incentive to assimilate, and as a result society stays more or less stable.

That said, the only immigrants that seem to cause problems are the Muslims, and that mostly in Quebec. Quel surprise. Luckily, they're outnumbered by the far more productive Chinese, Koreans, and Indians.

Shalmanessar makes an ignorant statement which can't be allowed to stand. He/she says the Chinese are a minority in Malaysia and badly treated. All, under the constitution are treated equally and the rule of law is adhered to.

One is, to protect the Bhumis, and in recognitition that they are not generally as bright as the two immigrant groups, they can get their university degree with 20% fewer marks than the Indians and Chinese.

If memory serves, they also get some advantages purchasing property

If Muslims get significant landowning and educational advantages, that's not "equality"

When I went to Malaysia in 2002, I spoke mostly to middle-class Indians (mostly professional, lawyers, doctors) and Chinese (mostly businessmen), and their resentment towards local Muslims was pretty overwhelming. Their resentment could be based on laws like this:

"In Malaysia, the "jizya" is disguised. It is called the "Bumiputra" ("Sons of the Soil"), and it supposedly was intended to help the indigenous Malays. But the indigenous tribes, the real Malays, are Christianized. In fact, the "Bumiputra" system helps only the Muslims in Malaysia. By its terms, those who are Chinese or Hindus (i.e., non-Muslims) must include in all of their economic undertakings, as equal partners, Malaysian Muslims. So, for example, if two Malaysian Chinese were to open, say, an architectural office, they would have to take on as a full partner a Malaysian Muslim, who would receive a share even if he contributed little or nothing to the enterprise"

Speaking of riots here are some more riots, in Addis Ababa; 100 or more dead. Again those pesky Africans, but wait, where is the conservative government ? Whom can we blame ?

Re: Canada - while I agree that most immigrants to Canada are hard-working and a huge net gain for the country, there are certain groups that through large local populations can have a negative effect on politics. I am thinking about Canada's rather tolerant attitude to the terrorist tamil tigers - and the large tamil populations in several key ridings (including the PM's). The takeover of certain liberal riding associations by people of Indian descent in BC is also noteworthy, though, as yet, there has been no international implications.

holdfast: couldn't agree more. Immigration is fine, so long as you're careful about who you let in. Asians and Indians generally work out okay, as do South Americans ... actually when you get down to it, everyone but Muslims (remember the palestinian students rioting in Montreal when Concordia University tried to get Benjamin Netanyahu to speak?) Things would go fine if you just banned Muslims, or maybe just Muslim men. But, of course, that would be racist.

Matt Shultz (on Canada) - "the only immigrants that seem to cause problems are the Muslims"

Most of the gun crimes in Toronto (and there have been a lot this year) are committed by Caribbean immigrants, mostly Jamaicans. East Indians along with blacks have set up no-go areas for white students (who are often bullied) and even teachers in one Brampton school I'm aware of. It's not the kind of thing that the MSM reports on but I suspect it is more widespread than most people think.

holdfast - You say immigrants are a net gain for the country. How do you come that conclusion? It's certainly out of step with recent scholarship on the issue. (I'm speaking here about economics).

Stop press2: It gets worse. I just heard the French rioters described as, "young people" on Sky News. Apparently the BBC appellation, "youths" is too sexist for Sky

Matra:Fair enough. I should have mentioned the Jamaican issue. Actually it caused quite a furor in Toronto's liberal press, with the Toronto city cops being accused of racial profiling and such. My view on that is that it was essentially a one-off. There was a crackdown on organized crime in Jamaica not too long ago, with the result that many of Jamaica's gangsters opted to move to Canada and Britain.

Crime isn't so much the issue, though. Immigrant communities regularly come with their own set of unsavory characters. The Italians brought the mafia, the Chinese brought the triads, and I seem to remember hearing something about the Irish being difficult to handle for quite a while after they arrived. But criminals can generally be controlled through standard law-and-order practices, and when you get down to it they're fundamentally interested in making money. Not in, for instance, taking over the host society. In the end, all those groups assimilated. It might take a couple of generations - immigrants are naturally pretty clannish when they first arrive - but it happens. Always.

Except with Muslims.

They've recently been campaigning for the introduction of shari'a for intra-faith civil settlements, for instance (something that Muslim women are very much against, at least if you get them off the record, when the menfolk aren't around.)

A simple litmus test is this: I could walk around Toronto's campuses and downtown areas, and rarely see, say, Indian women dressed in traditional clothing. If I did, invariably it was an older woman. Their youth adopt western dress, and if an Indian woman wants to date or marry a non-Indian, well, the family generally doesn't put up too much of a fight. Not so with the Muslims. Hijabs were not uncommon, and on one frightening instance I even saw a chador.

Here's another: the prevalence of inter-racial couples. It's very common to see a white-asian couple, or a white-Indian couple, or a white-black couple (in the first two cases, mostly white guy/ethnic girl, in the second mostly black male/white girl.) The number of muslim-white couples, going either way, is significantly lower.

Muslims just don't assimilate. Islam's memes are too strong to let them; it's a sophisticated beast, far more virulent than, say, Christianity.

Mary - Shalmanessar said that the Chinese "are treated shabbily even to this day in places like Malaysia,". They are not "treated" in any particular way, as they are citizens with a vote. To say that people with four-car garages, swimming pools, live-in staff, designer clothes and lavish holidays in Australia and Europe are being treated "shabbily" is ridiculous. Oh, and most of the editors of the newspapers are Chinese, and most TV producers are Chinese or Indian. This is "shabby"?

When it was clear that te Bhumis were falling farther and farther behind, the government created "reverse discrimination" to bring them along. Yes, they get a seat on boards of publicly listed companies. They get a degree with something like 20% fewer marks - thus rendering a degree at a Malaysian university worthless as all the clever Indians and Chinese go overseas for degrees that actually mean something.

Only companies over a certain size have to have a Bhumi on the board. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but they are generally not as bright, and most assuredly not as industrious, as the immigrants and the constitution tries to give them some small advantage in their own country. The Chinese and Indians - who dominate the professions and the business world - are not disadvantaged by it.

I am sorry, Mary, but I do not believe that Chinese and Indian resentment - expressed to a foreigner - was "overwhelming". This is not the Asian way, so perhaps you misunderstood.

However, now that Mahathir is gone, I have a feeling that this harmonious state of affairs may not last, given today's climate.

The reason multiculturalism is working in Canada is because Canada has had stringent entry requirements for immigrants, meaning that only the smartest, best-educated immigrants from Hong Kong, China and India have been admitted in large numbers. The number of illiterate, ignorant Muslims and others has been kept very low, but that may be changing soon. In twenty years Canada will probably have the same problems as Britain and France today.

Also, Canada may be more socialist than the US, but it is still far more capitalist and decentralized than Europe. That is our saving grace.

@Libations
"Canada may be more socialist than the US, but it is still far more capitalist and decentralized than Europe. That is our saving grace."

If you count the US military as a form of socialism, Canada's level of socialism is roughly equal to the US, probably lower after five years of Bush.

I don't see Canada's entry requirements changing soon. Looking at the Canadian immigration websites, you still have to have skills to get in. So I doubt they'll have the same problems as France 20 years from now.

Andrew Ian Dodge, your remarks are vile. The ordinary French people have no choice. The vast public sector gets the laws it wants through sheer voting power.

Funny last time I checked France was still a democracy. Those "political elites" are put there by the voters. Its not just political elites who are so sanctimonious how much better things are in France/relations with their Muslims.

AID - As I said in the same post, France is a democracy the way Phony B Liar intends Britain to be a democracy: overwhelming votes for the government by the vast public sector and the Muslims in return for constant concessions.

This is not a democracy. It is a combination of theocracy and bureaucracy and I say the hell with it. The French productive sector is, like the British wealth creating sector, being disenfranchised.

According to the wholly trustworthy BBC, French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has said it will take time to resolve the problems underlying eight nights of rioting around Paris. As in, how long M Sarkozy? Twenty years? Thirty years? It came as a surprise to the French government that the banlieus are infested?

Here is a comment from a stupid schoolgirl (again, from the Beeb): " It is a war of religion. Islam is targeted through the headscarf." - Amira Zitouni, student.

Surely it is time the French respond: "Well, yes, actually; it is a war of religion, and you get to lose."

When the mosques empty tonight all hell will break loose again. Its the Muslim way. Fridays are holy riot days. I presume, given the tone, al-Guardian thinks the French should throw money at them to relieve their "simmering frustration" and give them back their fabled Muslim pride. "I will not accept organized gangs making the law in some neighborhoods. I will not accept having crime networks and drug trafficking profiting from disorder" Et je certainement ne prends pas lAmerican Express. - de Villepin (a man, by some accounts). The unrest cast a cloud over the end of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month Next up: rampaging Christians on Christmas followed by arson and raping for Easter. "Frankistan Intifada" is freakin' hilarious. Dominique de Villepin, who is a man with a womans' name, has not said it yet but I assume these riots are because of the humiliation muslims have endured over the U.S. occupation of Iraq. That's why they're rioting in Mosul and Baghdad right now too, correct ? btw, how can something blacker than a black hole Muslim holy month have a cloud cast over it?

Already it seems to have spread to other towns in the south and west of France, so tonight could be the night to bring in the CRS... Or not. Put your feet up and watch it on TV. Popcorn anyone?

A police union official proposed establishing a curfew and bringing in the military to help handle the rioting, while some members of the opposition 'crypto commie' Socialist Party have suggested the police should withdraw from the communities to quell the unrest. Then bend over and apply their own KY Jelly to their assholes. "Its the French thing to do" the Socialist Minister said solemnly. Speaking to parliament Wednesday, de Villepin demanded punishment for lawbreakers but used calmer language than that used by Sarkozy... "Lets avoid stigmatizing areas .... lets treat petty crime differently to major crime, lets fight all discrimination with firmness, and avoid confusing a disruptive minority with the vast majority of youngsters who want to integrate into society and succeed," he said. Then he took a sip of his Vichy water and sat down. "Its the French thing to do." the Socialist Minister said solemnly. Jean-Louis Borloo, minister for social cohesion, said officials need to react "firmly" to the unrest but that France also must acknowledge its failure to deal with decades of simmering anger in the impoverished suburbs of Paris. "We cannot hide the truth: that for 30 years we have not done enough," he told France-2 television, AP reported. Borloo also urged people not to have a one-sided view of the suburbs. "One must not think for one second that this is the life of these neighborhoods, " Reuters quoted him as saying. "They are an integral part of our country. It is in these neighborhoods that most companies are being founded." CNN. Screw the popcorn. This calls for a full-on BBQ. Fire up the grill. Bring the beer. This could take a while.

Jean-Louis Borloo, minister for social cohesion? Why doesn't the U.S. take a page from Fwench LUCIDE and we should have a Minister of Social Cohesion. I nominate Al Sharpton! I know its mean, but I can't stop laughing. Have you tried Krazy glue?

Darn, I picked a bad week for a diet. But perhaps this signifies that Chirac is willing to bow before his masters and cough up the appea$$ement money so that the clerics will now tell their soldiers to stand down. Got any lo-car beer Raphael?

Napoleon was wise enough to have the crooked winding streets of Paris straightened for just such an occasion as now. "A whiff of grape will stop a mob." Why stop with just a whiff. Give em a snootfull. A big French nose full, I mean. It would be almost funny were it not that we are seeing the beginnings of the reaping of the whirlwind liberal-socialist societies like France have produced. This will cause immeasurable damage to Europe before these scum are made to take their "dirt naps" wrapped in the pigskins they well deserve. How sad that all the REAL men in France died in the Great War. No can do - the Imams have already tried this, and got pelted with rocks for their efforts. It seems as if this will end only when the rioters have got bored and decide they've had enough. The Fwench won't fight. They have their faces too tightly fixed between Marcelles hips.

Ah, to heck with the diet. Whats on the barbie?

No, I see something else coming, and soon. I don't think the French are going to let this go on much longer. I think the rioters are going to get that "whiff of the grape" and a bit more. There are going to be lots of dead Muzzy bodies in the streets, even more in the jails, and a hell of a lot more on boats back to the Maghreb and other third world piss-holes back in the Islamic Paradise, and its going to start soon. The French are often rude and arrogant--now they're going to display those qualities to the Muzzy parasitical scum rioting in the streets. This is just the opening act in an expulsion play that's been advertised for a long time now.
If they don't act decisively, soon, it will likely spread to other countries. You know there are millions of the same sort watching. Closely. Like in Denmark? #16 yikes, .com. You are right about that. This is like watching a gasoline truck and a cement truck hurtling toward each other in slow motion. Still a chance they might miss, but if they dont....

Of course the French people deserve better than this. After all, they pay enough in taxes...

The French people might have enough spine to deal with this, but the prissy French elites don't. As long as the elites stay in charge, France is on a one way trip to Islamic Hell. Charles Martel is spinning in his grave. There is no modern day Roland. France is going to Dhimmi. They are spineless fags merci beau coup.

A friend of mine lives right on the fringe of one such community in London - old run-down high-rise estate - what they call projects in the U.S. - It's chock-full of Somalis and North Africans and assorted Islamic immigrants, and completely no go for whites. A real powder keg in the making. The area is affluent and largely white British in demographic terms. When the UK economy falters as it surely must "the shit will hit the fan" on a large scale there. I hear some native locals have already formed vigilante squads in the face of the petty crime these communities have brought with them. Be careful Johnny Londoner! Here's to hoping that your weekend is boring.

But here is the REAL point to all of this: all in all, this rioting thing is relatively "minor", no death so far (of course having for example 27 buses, 400 cars and 3 warehouses torched in one night isn't exactly "minor"), this is but a surge in an ongoing, worsening situation since at least 10 years. The *REAL* danger comes from the appeasement of the pussy French authorities : - they've caved in to the narrative of the start of this (the two youths who stoopidly electrocuted themselves hiding in an obviously dangerous place labelled as such, after running away from an ID control... note they werent even pursued!) and if I were to joke I'd say that soon the policemen will be accused of non-assistance to endangered youths. - the local authorities are overhelmed, and have put all their hopes into "mediators", often from religious background; this "outsourcing" of sovereignty has been a staple of local political life in such areas for a long time (in north of France you've got the Lille mayor who protects Islamist bastards who associate with terror-related Islamic charities to get social peace, in heavily Isalmized Roubazix you've got an alliance between left-leaning pols and Islamists,...), but this is a new step. -in 30 months or so, there will be municipal elections, and this new arrangement will not be forgotten; the Islamists have flexed their muscle, and to get peace, the powers-that-be will be ready to do any concessions they will be asked to do. -same thing in national politics; the drive toward affirmative action, funding of mosques by the State, multiculturalism,... will only go stronger (and there is no true difference between Sarkozy and "de Villepin" there, the only thing is that the first says what he wishes to do, while the second acts under the radar, see the "fondation de lislam de France" or the formation of imam by the Sorbonnes university). What you must understand is there is a continous push, a "global jihad" that is mainly cultural, and that such surges in violence are only the "stick" to the usual carrot. Its a multi-faceted strategy, a culture war where only one of the side fight, while the other caves in. It goes straight from the street level (where street violence, anti-judeochristian/anti-white prejudice drives out "Gauls" from the hood, allows Islamic businessmen to buy cheap real estate, to replace shops by hallal businesses,... and thus create muslim-controlled areas), to the cultural level (where there is an established "antiracist" apparatus that enforces the multiculturalist, islamically correct ideololgy, complete with rewriting of school books to present a "positive side of Islam" or a terrorism-friendly curruculum in which the 9/11 attacks are a "contestation of the US hegemony", law against discrimination,...), or to the political level (power and sovereignty-sharing with the muslims).Give your sovereignty to a Moslem. I repeat, the USA are the main opponent of the whole "WOT", but Europe is the prize and the main target. Both sides of the pond do not face the same dangers, and the USA are much less exposed (unless the terrs get their paws on WMD). There are lots of potential traitors in America also.

In my US centered memory the closest thing to these riots in the U.S. was the riots after Dr. King died. I seem to recall that Johnson sent Nat Guards with TANKS into the street and stuff quieted down rather quickly. Now I've seen the TV of the French doing much much worse recently in the Ivory Coast. Do they have the balls to be tough at home?

Also, Im 100% there is a concerted, organized, willful effort at subverting european societies; I'm not paranoid enough to think each and every Euro-Muslim is part of it (though Im paranoid enough to believe in Eurabia), but there HAS been recovered documents seized by French or Swiss Intelligence which show the Muslim Brotherhood and its affiliates ARE planning to conquer Europe using dawa, subversion (political, cultural,... using the Wests own guilt, laws and institution) and demography (number is power). Again, it is probably not one huge single conspiracy, but rather a continouus "process" enabled by an ideology (and God knows "classical" Islam itself is an ideology of conquest, so imagine for the fascist-like "organic" version of the Muslim Brotherhood, or the jihadist Salafism). The USA get a taste of this through CAIR, but there is absolutely not the same abyss facing you. I mean, this is a war of conquest that is met by a deathwish! The French want to die. You can smell it. Recall how the French deal with protests. Remember how the trash collectors, police, transit workers, farmers, you name the group.... go on strike -- how there seems to be a strike every freakin month. The French government and culture fuels protest, which, till now, has resulted in nothing more than inconvenience. This is different. The French have no effective way of understanding how to deal with this and so, I suspect, will fall back on "tried and true" methods of: appeasing, dialogue, acceptance, etc., all of which CANNOT WORK, ultimately. And if they DO crack down, that will further inflame the rioters. In short, there is NO way, apart from abject Dhimmitude, for the French to get out from under. The rioters are feeling a newfound sense of power. And they won't give that up easily.You really are seeing the real Islam here. Raw and uncensored. I suspect Frances' nightmare is far from over. Oh Contraire, Pepe le Pue. This is only the beginning.

"Do they have the balls to be tough at home?". French cops have balls and are quite able and ready to bust heads when necessary (or fun), riots or anti-gang cops are quite brave given the odds they daily face... and I'm not talking about this particular surge, which is not exceptional (except in the international media coverage) They dont have the means to cope if the situation gets out of hands, but so far, this is manageable. Fact is, they aren't getting any support from the pols, now or before (there are numerous reports of police officers harassed at home by youths and forced to move out, and their hierarchy doesnt support them at all)... So all in all, response is "NO" in my humble opinion, but perhaps I'm overly pessimistic? Overall the French elite are pussified and will remain so.

As the Muslim population grows, they can expand the no-go areas into formerly more affluent areas by this method. Over the years, the no-go zones become mini Islamic states. The French are getting what only people like the French deserve. They are being made to eat some serious Moslem joystick. Don't forget to swallow, Marcelle.

Well, well, Faust's back.

Remember last time when you claimed to hold patents but refused to give the numbers so people could check out your tales?

Have you managed to remember what those patent numbers are yet?

EG

"You can live on your feet or on your knees.

You can be a member of the Remnant or of the Herd.

Your weapon can be a rifle or a spoon for eating shit."

Phillip Kingry. “The Monk and the Marines.”

Buy it here: http://www.biblioz.com/b25773233.html

Have a nice day Chickaboo.

Iran next...

Lets hope this period of rioting might actually get the French to wake up to the menace that lies within so they might do something about it. I have heard France refered in glowing terms because of its treatment of Muslims.

This series of events puts paid to that assertion. I am sure that there are as many shocked French people as there were shocked British after 7/7; ditto in Holland and in the US.

Maybe, just maybe we might see a turn around in French attitudes towards the Islamists in their midst.

Faust - I enjoyed your free-association post. There was a lot of truth in there. And it was funny, too.

Andrew ID - What I have been saying throughout this thread, and once in answer to you specifically, is, the French do not want this mess. They do not want Muslims in France - oh, maybe one or two nicely dressed ones who speak lovely French and make a nice shop window for French tolerance - they do not want to pay horrendous taxes to house, feed and clothe these ignorant, hissing, aggressive vipers. Do you really think a French surgeon or a French lawyer wants these people in his civilisation, of which he is rightly proud? Are you kidding? They hate it!

But this has been a fabulous sales promotion for Marine LePen's party - especially as she has massaged her father's more outspoken views to make them more acceptable to the middle class. (Not that the middle class wasn't voting for Jean-Marie LePen before, anyway ....) And never forget, so low has France been brought by its own government, that Jacques Chirac is looked on as a right-winger.

Good, very frank, column in The Times: (Link)

I find the argument that France is not "a real" democracy a bit weak. The French people vote for these people and don't vote for others like Le Pen (not that he is any better his polices are socialist like the rest of them).

To say that its merely the "political elites" fault for the mess that France is in is clearly nonsense. If there is a chance in France it will have to be forced by its citizens. Bottom up not top down.

Andrew Ian Dodge - can you read, as well as write? Or do you just come barrelling in with your exremely important thoughts without referencing people who have written before?

Do you read fellow posters who have referenced your comments?

The French people vote for these people and don't vote for others like Le Pen (not that he is any better his polices are socialist like the rest of them).

Well, M LePen, who is not the head of his party any more, so do sit up and pay attention, is more in tune with the indigenous French than is any other party.

Take a deep breath and try to read this before your eyes begin swivelling again: The public sector, which is huge, voters vote for the status quo. That means, to keep things the way they are.

The public sector is vast. Huge. They're the boss. They decide when to close the counry down with strikes. They're the ones who decide government policy. They're the ones who make common accord with the Muslims.

I wanted to post something, but I've been laughing so hard these last few days, I didn't have the strength to type.

This is almost as good as the tragic and entirely unforeseen "Summer when it got hot in August."

C'est la vie.

I must say, as Verity points out, the most delicious part will be Le Pen's showing in 2007!! The communists were all worried about presenting a united candidate to avoid Le Pen in the second round; but oops, they've already split! Fabius and Hollande are never going to make up, so it comes down to de Villepin and Sarkovzy - -if those two can't declare a winner between them, then conceivably, Le Pen for president!!

Happily, I don't live there anymore, so I can sit back and watch a) the understrength aussies thrash them at rugby, b) the racaille thrash them in the streets and c) the rest of Europe (eventually, being Europe) thrash them on the CAP.

And the final act? Chirac stripped of immnunity and in jail with Alain Juppé et cie.

Patrick - my guess - Sarkovzy has the backing of the French. The French have never wanted any of this immigration imposed on them; the French have never wanted "les deux rives de la Mediterranée".

I mean, give me a break!

"If you count the US military as a form of socialism, Canada's level of socialism is roughly equal to the US, probably lower after five years of Bush."

WHAAAAT????

The ONLY reason Canada can afford its socialism is that the US provides military security to Canada.
If Canada paid its fair share, maybe then Canada would (of necessity) be nearer to the Socialist level of the US.
To claim that US expenditures on the military equates to Socialism is just false.

Man, you people talking about Canuckistan live in an alternate universe.

If Martin actually does decide to nationalize Alberta's oil sands, we'll see if Alberta has the balls to secede.

The ONLY reason Canada still exists is its southern neighbor. 80-85% of its trade and it relies on our hospitals to take care of canuckies "elective surgeries." They free-ride off our military and our prescription drugs. They've threatened to break patents if they get charged more.

They do not define themselves by what they are, but what they are not.

Verity,

"someone said above that the French in their leafy suburbs are well protected. This is absolutely incorrect".

That was me. What I actually said was that the political elites in their leafy suburbs are not affected by the current situation as the rioters are burning the kinds of areas in which they live. My point was two-fold (and mainly in response to AID):

-- it is the people who are trapped in the areas where the rioters are burning and destroying who are the main victims;
-- the French l elites live in a world - and have done for years - that is totally separated from the hell of these ghettos and until they are directly affected they will continue to regard the victims of these disturbances as 'little people' and to disregard them.

As the elites continue to brush the consequences of the mass Muslim immigration into French cities under the carpet and fail to deal with it effectively, there will now be, as you suggest, a huge swing to the right.

The Dutch and Belgian political elites have for decades made similar mistakes - hence the recent swings to the right now being seen in the NL and Belgium (where Vlaams Belang recently took 40% of the votes in Antwerp (which has some of the same social problems - in common with Brussels, Amsterdam and Rotterdam - as Paris).

This is now a law and order issue: the less the French government is able to guarantee law and order, the more that ordinary citizens will lose faith and shift towards the political extremes.

If senior French politicians are not having long sleepness nights about the future of France over this, they damned well ought to be.

When I was deciding which northern mediterranean country to shift to, the clear choices were France (cheap property, less pressured rural spaces) or Italy (expensive property, more urban). However, at the time of my researches, I started to hear of some rather interesting rumours and stories emerging from Southern France. Apparently, American tourists and expat property owners were being increasingly harassed by what was then described to me as "arab youths" (clearly these "youths" would be now much more accurately described by the BBC as "French children") when they went into their local towns for shopping trips. Note that this was ihis was in February 2001.

Largely because of this, I chose Italy. Not perfect, not immune, but I suspect a probable late starter on the sort of thing hitting England and France right now, for a variety of reasons.

Phillip Kingry. "The Monk and the Marines."

Ah, yes. The work of mass-market fiction Faust claims to be his autobiography...

EG

One thought kept running through my mind as I read about the Paris riots: Chickens coming home to roost.

Not just multiculturalism. But leftism, socialism, and all the various memes intellectuals have deemed superior. In France, the poster nation for the left, with its enlightened social policy and 'concern for the common man', no less.

Well now, how do they like their policies now? If ever there was a dis-advertisement for the left, this would be it. A clear sign where their methods did not lead to the desired outcomes. A cognitive dissonant opportunity to revise their premises.

Will they ever admit that they were wrong?

Jonathan,
I mentioned Theodore Dalrymple's article because it brought in another dimension to the problem of the French underclass: the rigid labour laws, high minimum wage and other socialist claptrap which favour the established worker and discriminate against the newcomer.

Don't for a moment think however that I do not see the Islamic dimension as being the principal problem. Islam is not only a terrible danger to western civilisation but also to Islamic countries themselves.

My first personal brush with Muslim mayhem was shortly after leaving Singapore for East Africa in December 1950. Two days into the voyage I heard one of my great friends had been killed in Muslim riots. The mob disagreed with a long running court case concerning who had legal guardianship over a thirteen year old Dutch girl who had been separated from her parents in the Dutch East Indies by the Japanese invasion. Her Javanese 'amah' had brought her up and was proposing to marry her at 13 to a 30 year old Javanese. The case went to the parents. The Muslim crowd as is their usual practice just looked around for who they could kill and they managed to kill quite a few Europeans. This is quintessential Islam- we don't agree let's kill - otherwise known as the 'peaceful religion'.

Virtually all Islamic countries are failed societies - Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Egypt,
Syria, Algeria, Morocco. They are all failed cultures and I think there is good reason to believe that their religion is an important part of the cultural failure.
The oil states have a temporary buffer.

I have not mentioned sub Saharan Africa because there is another set of cultural failures separately operating there. Don't mention Malaysia because the non muslim minorities support them.

I believe you can make judgements about cultures and place them in inferior or superior categories without any complex plilosophical value judgements simply by seeing which are the countries people are hell bent on leaving and which are the countries with cultures which attract them. The major problem with Islam is that there is a complete f