That's certainly not true today.

__earth,

agreed, there are not even any men of principle anymore.

Well said, lemuel.

Well said, lemuel.

As a long time Repulblican I find this quote to be both offensive and uninformed. We--the Republicans--have made great strides in recent years toward making our Nation both safer and more prosperous than it had been during the Carter and Clinton years. Apparently Mr. Toqeville has overdosed on MSM (Main Stream Media) content and needs to look elsewhere for his news. I would suggest he read informative blogs like Instapundit and the Corner at NRO. He might also tune in to Bret Humes show on Fox News (6:00 p.m. -7:00) in which he will get a balanced presentation of the news along with lively panel discussion. From his name I can only assume he is French but I am willing to believe that anyone is salvageable.

Jerry,

I write this assuming you weren't joking.

You know de Tocqueville, right? Unless I'm mistaken, he wouldn't have had much of a chance to be brainwashed by MSM, living in the early 19th century.

You gotta read some history before claiming to represent Republicans. It's just a shame otherwise

I hope everything Jerry said was tongue-in-cheek, because I can't believe anyone is really that ignorant.

Technically speaking, both parties are parties of principle.

It's just that the principle is the advancement of their own power. This is just as true of Republicans as it is of Democrats.

So one can not say "These guys are total crooks" or "these guys are total saints" about either party. One must decide which shade of grey is closer to white and balance that against the policies that the parties are (or claim to be) advancing.

Don't get me wrong Jerry, I am a Republican. The price of power, like the price of freedom, is eternal vigilance. The difference is that with power, one must keep constant vigil on one's own soul.

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary" -- Federalist #51

Ivan got trolled big time. Kudos to Jerry.

Is that Jerry guy from the US? =)

I thought most Americans love that French guy.

"Ivan got trolled big time. Kudos to Jerry."

Well, I did have a waiver: "I write this assuming you weren't joking."

What exactly was the message if he was joking? That blogs like instapundit and Fox are not reasonable sources of information, or at least as reasonable as the alternatives? The reason I tilted towards the comment was that their isn't anything biting about a satire pretending to be a reasonable if uninformed person.

How about we end the thread here and just comment on the meat and potatoes of the quote :)

Or, comment on this quote also by him:
"Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom. "

If men were angels, no government would be necessary

Actually it is because men are not angels that as little government as possible is essential. Government is a repository of devils.

I don't think Jerry was kidding. US gov't schools are amazing for their ability to suck independence, judgement and critical capacity out of the student at an early age.

Jerry made me spit coffee all over my keyboard. I'm pretty sure he was joking; my faith in human intelligence still stretches far enough to believe that Americans can master subtle sarcasm.

This is a necessity in the American system.

Coalitions are made before elections. Too much principle and you don't get enough votes to win.

Having know the Parliamentary system I'm sure "winner take all" was given quite a bit of consideration before it was instituted. OTOH a two party split was not expected so perhaps they did not forsee every thing.

At least you have an idea of what the governing theme of a regime will be even if it doesn't rise to the level of principle.

The "they" I refer to of course were the leaders of the rebellion turned Constitutionalists.

Who is dis guy Toke-ville anyway, a goddam French spliff-smoker? Don't he realise the great political traditions America has given the world: gerrymandering, Tammany Hall, hanging chads, redistricting to ensure that 95% of incumbents get re-elected, legal drives to stop third parties standing, dead men on the ballot, guys who are elected for one party and promptly switch sides?

This Toke-ville oughta tune into Sean Hannity or Rush and get a taste of real debate and open-mindedness. Happy Christmas, folks-- sorry, I mean Happy Holidays, sure don't wanna offend nobody!

Who is dis guy Toke-ville anyway, a goddam French spliff-smoker? Don't he realise the great political traditions America has given the world: gerrymandering, Tammany Hall, hanging chads, redistricting to ensure that 95% of incumbents get re-elected, legal drives to stop third parties standing, dead men on the ballot, guys who are elected for one party and promptly switch sides?

This Toke-ville oughta tune into Sean Hannity or Rush and get a taste of real debate and open-mindedness. Happy Christmas, folks-- sorry, I mean Happy Holidays, sure don't wanna offend nobody!

Of course we Americans can come up with subtle wits now and then. We learned a lot from French chicks like Alexis over the years: how to pick out lingerie, how to say "Merci beau cul" and act like we don't know what we just said, and how to keep a thriving democracy even though the forces of corruption are ever-present. Thanks, babe!

I'll be dull and try to vindicate the dead Frog.

I've noticed that neither Europeans and Americans realize that political parties are entirely different on each side of the Atlantic.

A European party has an agenda, - a platform, - and tries to gain power to implement that platform.

American parties are entirely different, even though they pretend to follow the same behavior. The Republicans and Democrats both adopt platforms every year, but the platforms are meaningless. No one outside the drafting committees even knows what the platforms say. Both parties are essentially content free, (a right-wing Democrat can run for office and win, as can a left-wing Republican). The parties are semi-public organizations, enshrined in law, and providing a public service. A Communist could win a Republican primary, run for office, and possibly be entitled to sue the party for funding. --- To a European, this makes no sense.

For those who doubt this, just ask why and how the conservative Democratic Party of the 1920's ended up running a Socialist in 1932, (Roosevelt).

(Obviously, there are ideological tendencies in both parties, but nothing carved in stone.)

But there's a huge amount of confusion on both sides of the Atlantic, confusing European parties with American parties.

Hence, the dead Frog, "there is no party of principle." American political parties stand for nothing but re-election.

(And Jerry did have that glossy shine of absolute, imperterbable sincerity. Good for him. )

"For those who doubt this, just ask why and how the conservative Democratic Party of the 1920's ended up running a Socialist in 1932, (Roosevelt)."

A socialist who was elected on a promise to reduce government's role! And who was returned in 1940 on a pledge to keep America out of foreign wars. (As was Wilson in 1916).

By the same token, Bush II will be in full retreat from Iraq by the end of next year.