Thursday
(0)The French and German ministers recently tasked with boosting bilateral cooperation have already agreed on one important point - the need for summer crash courses to learn each other's language. French European Affairs Minister Noelle Lenoir and her German counterpart Hans-Martin Bury said each would spend part of their holidays in the other's country sweating over grammar rules and vocabulary lists.
They met to prepare an October conference bringing together the heads of France's 22 regions and Germany's 16 federal states to discuss boosting cooperation in education, culture, economic development and environmental issues. Lenoir told journalists in French after talks with Bury:
German must gradually become almost as widely spoken and as easily spoken as English is today.
Heh.
There's an old internet joke somewhere - emailed to me but now deleted - about the single European language. The EU commissioners decided that change would be gradual: one year, in every European language, 'k' would replace 'c' for reasons of spelling harmonisation. Then the confusing English sound 'th' would be replaced by 'z,' the letter 'w' would be pronounced 'v' and so on.
I'm sure you can get the gist...
The punchline was in that cartoonish WWII Germanised English we Brits find so funny. Can't remember it, though.
Posted by Ian at July 10, 2003 11:39 AM
Wasn't it Mrs. T. who was delighted to discover at some Euro-jamboree that the then-current French and German PM's had only English as their common language?
Quelle horreur!
Posted by Andrew Duffin at July 10, 2003 12:11 PM
This is the joke mentioned above.
With all the talk about a single European currency, some people are talking about a common European language, with English being touted as the preferred language for communications, ahead of German. But the British will be asked to concede a simplified spelling to be phased in over a five-year period.
In the first year, 'S' would be used instead of the soft 'C'. Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard 'C' will be replaced with 'K'. Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter on the keyboard.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome 'ph' will be replaced by f. This will make words like 'fotograf' 20 per sent shorter.
In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent 'e's in the languag is disgrasful, so they would hav to go.
By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing 'th' by 'z' and 'w' by 'v'. During ze fifz year, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou', and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz year, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil beno mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.
Posted by Lorenzo at July 10, 2003 12:18 PM
Lowraindzow,
Owl whawt yu sed iss purfeictltee cowrraict ez fur ez cansununts aahr cansurnd.
End whawht ubahut thu vawols?
Posted by Kodiak at July 10, 2003 12:22 PM
I notice the use of the word 'must', which is a little indicative of the mental mindset of your typical Eurocrat. I know, let's bring out a directive to 'harmonize' the EU, with a single European language. Think of the efficiency savings, in translation. Will that be English then? Ich denke nicht, meine Freunden.
Posted by Andy Duncan at July 10, 2003 12:24 PM
Andy,
English is a good candidate altough there's nothing to win: all languages will remain in use to some degree?
What about Esperanto or Volapük?
Posted by Kodiak at July 10, 2003 12:29 PM
The (not so) funny story mentioned above is mercilessly ripped off from Dolton Edwards' fine short story, "Meihem in ce klasrum". The original is still in copyright but a web search will bring it up if you're interested.
Posted by harry.payne at July 10, 2003 12:30 PM
I think it would be useful for the EUrocrats to agree upon a single language for use. Obviously French and German are out of the question. English? No, the British and Americans have done enough harm to civilization. I know. How about Finnish? Or Lapp? Yes, that would be perfect. And why? That way they can be like the church in Mideval times, speaking a language (Latin) that the overwhelming majority of simple people didn't understand, or need to, because they would not be in on the decision making process anyway. Just like now.
Posted by Swede at July 10, 2003 12:38 PM
Swede,
If you don't want to come to Latin, Latin will come to you.
Look at the external shape of English: it really looks like a Romance language, like French in particular.
Posted by Kodiak at July 10, 2003 01:23 PM
German must gradually become almost as widely spoken and as easily spoken as English is today.
Dear me. Heh. How much more credibility this Euro stuff would have if it weren't always defining itself by comparison.
Posted by S. Weasel at July 10, 2003 01:27 PM
Kodiak,
You are correct, in part. The English language is an amalgamation of Germanic, Norse, and French (thanks to the Normans) languages. The English language is a spoken record of British history.
Posted by Swede at July 10, 2003 01:31 PM
Harry:
Mark Twain is alleged to have written a similar piece.
Posted by Ted Schuerzinger at July 10, 2003 02:03 PM
From my perspective it appears that the dominant language for future Europe will most likely be Arabic.
Posted by MB at July 10, 2003 04:00 PM
Suede,
You are correct, in part. The English language underwent a profound Frenchifying thanks to the Normands. But also thanks to the Angevins, the Poitevins, the Provençaux, the Aquitains, the Flemish, the Parisians. I surely miss some. They were so many.
Posted by Kodiak at July 10, 2003 05:10 PM
Bernard Shaw left a considerable amount of money for the rationalisation of English spelling. The Public Trustee (established through his campaigning) appears not to have done much about it.
... I think we're strictly langue d'oie, Kodiak, I can't think of any Occitan that's found its way into English. (But then I would say that wouldn't I :) )
Public life can be conducted in a synthetic language: look at the success of modern Hebrew. However I suspect starting from scratch might prove problematic with 300-400M people and hundreds of thousands of pages of regulations to translate. Likewise Arabic. (Not even a majority of Europe's moslems speak it, MB. Those that do, a far-from-standardised Maghrebian.)
If you want simplicity in public documents--and teasing Swede apart--you'd probably go for Swedish, but pragmatism suggests French (in whose conceptual universe the institutions swim) and/or English (by far the most widely spoken)--with Americanisms fiercely suppressed. :)
I don't see the two would be a problem: Switzerland copes with 4.
I note that the proposed new citizenship tests for naturalised British citizens will be available in Welsh (an official language in Wales) and Scots Gaelic (no official status) as well as English. More examiners than sitters may be expected. You can take your driving test here in a wide range of languages.
Minority languages will still present bureaucratic employment opportunities, even if they have no status.
Posted by Guy Herbert at July 10, 2003 05:57 PM
Lenoir told journalists in French after talks with Bury:German must gradually become almost as widely spoken and as easily spoken as English is today.
So let me get this straight: she's saying that German will replace English as the lingua franca?
My head hurts.
Posted by Spoons at July 10, 2003 07:24 PM
Christ, it will take you twice as long to type out any document if you start using German.
Posted by Cody at July 10, 2003 11:15 PM
The not-so-funny piece mentioned by Ian above was ripped off from Dolton Edwards' excellent "Meihem in ce Klasrum". Bowdlerised, politicised, and for all I know, pasteurised variations on this appear every so often; mostly by journos who think they're being oh so clever.
"Meihem" is based on Shaw's attempt to rationalise English spelling phonetically. I always giggle when someone tries to revive it; given the plethora of regional accents we would still be back at the argument over eggs or eyrin that caused Geoffrey Chaucer to think that writing in English might be a Good Thing (but not very Memorable).
"Meihem" is in copyright but not as far as I know in print; however a web-search will doubtless uncover many copies of it.
Posted by Harry Payne at July 10, 2003 11:35 PM
Guy,
"I think we're strictly langue d'oie" >>> which means in Modern English: "I think we're strictly goose language"...
You were perhaps referring to langue d'oïl, weren't you?
Well, if you were, I'd be glad to mention words & people -all Occitan- that found their way into hospitable English. Upon request.
;-)
For the rest, at the risk of fainting, I shall vote for you.
Except I'd choose French + German + English + Italian + Spanish + Portuguese + Dutch, at least.
Posted by Kodiak at July 11, 2003 12:33 PM
I'd be grateful for the education, Kodiak. In spelling too. Words, though--people don't matter in this context. I have thought of a handful since that spoil our Norman purity.
Posted by Guy Herbert at July 11, 2003 04:39 PM
Spoons,
German has already been a hugely used lingua franca in central & eastern Europe for at least centuries.
Posted by Kodiak at July 12, 2003 08:39 AM
Cody,
"Christ, it will take you twice as long to type out any document if you start using German"
1/ assertion wanting substantiating
2/ even proved, what would be the point?
Danke schöne für deine Antwort.
Auf Englisch oder Deutsch >>> kein Problem.
Posted by Kodiak at July 12, 2003 08:44 AM
Cody,
"Christ, it will take you twice as long to type out any document if you start using German"
1/ assertion wanting substantiating
2/ even proved, what would be the point?
Danke schön für deine Antwort.
Auf Englisch oder Deutsch >>> kein Problem.
Posted by Kodiak at July 12, 2003 08:44 AM
Guy,
Among a myriad:
Aliénor d'Aquitaine (Eleanor of Aquitaine) = former wife of a French king & mother of at least two Plantagenêts: Richard Coeur-de-Lion (Lionheart) & Jean Sans-Terre (John Lackland).
Aliénor de Provence (Eleanor of Provence) = wife of Northern French Henri III (King of England).
Pierre des Roches (Peter des Roches = clerk from Poitou = Poitevin = Picte) >>> bishop of Winchester + chancellor + justiciar of England.
Pierre de Savoie (Peter of Savoy) = earldom of Richmond
Boniface de Savoie, archevêque de Cantorbéry (Boniface of Savoy, archbishop of Canterbury).
Words of Occitan origin, diectly & undirectly (through French, Italian & Castillan):
accolade
ambassador
amour
avalanche
ballad
bastide
beret
boutique
charade
cocoon
crusade
embassy
fig
flamingo
gaffe
grail
limousine
lingo
mascot
perfume
pilgrim
salad
sonnet
Posted by Kodiak at July 12, 2003 09:28 AM
German has already been a hugely used lingua franca in central & eastern Europe for at least centuries
Certainly in the Balkans I have found English far more widely spoken... in Croatia I hardly encountered anyone under 40 who did not speak English at least passably. In fact I pretty much gave up trying to learn Croatian for that reason... I cannot remember the number of times I have started to speak to someone in that part of the world in halting Croatia only to have them reply in serviceable English. French and German are receding into history as regional second languages in most places.
Posted by Perry de Havilland at July 12, 2003 10:46 AM
Perry,
Didn't you know that people able to speak 2 languages (theirs & a foreign one) are more likely to find it desirable to learn a 3rd one?
That's also why Croatians can also speak English. Well actually both German & Italian are spoken in Croatia.
Being a polyglot is something rather widespread throughout the World.
You too could give it a try.
May be this wouldn't be a bad start for you to attain polythinking too...
Posted by Kodiak at July 12, 2003 11:32 AM
