Thursday
(0)A referendum on joining the Euro will cause "all-out internal civil war"- Dennis McShane, Minister for Europe
I never referred to... [civil war] in the Labour Party. Calling for a referendum... would launch a long civil war in the UK with everyone fighting everyone.- Dennis McShane, Minister for Europe, subsequent clarification.
[Source: BBC News at Ten, BBC online]
Oh well, that's all right then.
Hey, if there's gonna be a civil war, we've got a Confederate flag we're not using any more :-)
Posted by Alan K. Henderson at May 23, 2003 04:56 AM
Whereas not having a referendum on the constitution of the unnamed union will only lead to a civil war when states get round to wanting to leave.
Posted by Guy Herbert at May 23, 2003 05:52 AM
I listened to an audio tape of his remarks on the radio this morning. I'll concede his point that he is clearly not referring to a "internal civil war" within the Labour party. So he's acquitted of party disloyalty. Great. Fine. OK.
But it's come to something that the only news value that they saw in this story was that someone might have been offending the holy gods of party unity. I'd have thought it a much bigger story that a Parliamentarian thinks that actual debate on an important issue with an actual decision to make at the end of the debate consitutes a war - a catastrophe - a terrible thing to be avoided at all costs. What process does he think put him in his seat at the Commons?
Posted by Natalie Solent at May 23, 2003 08:46 AM
What does a "Minister for Europe" do, actually? I mean, when he gets into his office and says good morning to what is sure to be at least five staff, and gets his cup of coffee and sits down at his desk, what does he actually do next? OK, reads The Independent. Checks his email. But after that, what do he do for the rest of the day? Five days a week. And how much is he paid?
Posted by Liberty Belle at May 23, 2003 10:44 AM
Natalie Solent makes a very telling point here - and probably captures the essence of what has been going on in the UK: the stifling of debate by the political classes, who are united in their love of Tuscan holidays and French food... umm, I think I meant to write 'the grand and glorious future that is the United States of Europe'.
The last thing these people want is a debate - particularly now when they are pretty sure they would lose.
Posted by G Cooper at May 23, 2003 11:27 AM
Liberty Belle asks:
"What does a "Minister for Europe" do, actually?"
It is hard to know in Mr. McShane's case, I agree. With Peter Hain, of course, it was far more obvious. One assumes at least two hair appointments a day, long hours in front of the sun lamp and all those lessons in preening and self-esteem.
Ms. Belle also wonders:
" And how much is he paid?"
As far as I can make out, if it is a Cabinet post, he will get £71,433 plus (substantial) perks and expenses. If not, the poor dear has to struggle on with a mere £37,055, plus tips.
Until I looked it up I had no idea what the current exchange rate was for 30 pieces of silver.
Posted by G Cooper at May 23, 2003 11:37 AM
Note for foreign readers: Ministers get what they get and an ordinary MP's salary and allowances as well.
Posted by Guy Herbert at May 23, 2003 05:14 PM
One suspects that in a French-style EU, Ministers will get what they get, plus an MPs salary and whatnot, plus whatever they can skim off from the state-operated oil company. Just ask Jacques!
Posted by T. Hartin at May 23, 2003 09:18 PM
