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	<title>Comments on: The Political Class is getting uneasy</title>
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	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Tim Almond</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-277689</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Almond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 10:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-277689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good.

The last thing I want is for them to get a clue and engineer a referendum with questions and a PR campaign that suits them.

The next election is going to be hugely entertaining as far as the Conservatives are concerned. With UKIP taking votes and the LD voters switching to Labour, I predict the Cameroons getting the boot and being considered persona non grata within the party. The liberal wing of the party can take over from the one-nation bunch we have now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good.</p>
<p>The last thing I want is for them to get a clue and engineer a referendum with questions and a PR campaign that suits them.</p>
<p>The next election is going to be hugely entertaining as far as the Conservatives are concerned. With UKIP taking votes and the LD voters switching to Labour, I predict the Cameroons getting the boot and being considered persona non grata within the party. The liberal wing of the party can take over from the one-nation bunch we have now.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Buxton</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-275382</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Buxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-275382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many apologies, finger too fast for brain, my second sentence should of course read &quot;it is strange that.....&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many apologies, finger too fast for brain, my second sentence should of course read &#8220;it is strange that&#8230;..&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Buxton</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-275381</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Buxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-275381</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am rather astonished at the volume coming from the scaremongers, is panic setting in I wonder?  It is atrange that we get no new argument in favour of the EU, not that there is one, but you would think they could dream up some new lies.  The old ones are so tired they are falling asleep.  Several blogs have pointed the way to go with the least upset to our Country but as usual no one is listening.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am rather astonished at the volume coming from the scaremongers, is panic setting in I wonder?  It is atrange that we get no new argument in favour of the EU, not that there is one, but you would think they could dream up some new lies.  The old ones are so tired they are falling asleep.  Several blogs have pointed the way to go with the least upset to our Country but as usual no one is listening.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaded Voluntaryist</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-275341</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded Voluntaryist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-275341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James, that was a result of too much regulation, not too little.

Without centrally set interest rates and without bailouts, the credit bubble would have never happened, or at least never been repeated since the guiilty parties would have gone under.

So a move out of Europe is at least a move in the right direction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, that was a result of too much regulation, not too little.</p>
<p>Without centrally set interest rates and without bailouts, the credit bubble would have never happened, or at least never been repeated since the guiilty parties would have gone under.</p>
<p>So a move out of Europe is at least a move in the right direction.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-275337</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-275337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The sad irony, Paul, is that with one of those serious issues you mention – the credit bubble financial-banking system - it is the very thing eurosceptics of the Faragist, Evans-Pritchard school look at as a great blessing – the Bank of England&#039;s ability to act &quot;independently&quot; to take &quot;extraordinary&quot; measures in &quot;support&quot; of the economy – that may ultimately be responsible for running the economy of the edge of a cliff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sad irony, Paul, is that with one of those serious issues you mention – the credit bubble financial-banking system &#8211; it is the very thing eurosceptics of the Faragist, Evans-Pritchard school look at as a great blessing – the Bank of England&#8217;s ability to act &#8220;independently&#8221; to take &#8220;extraordinary&#8221; measures in &#8220;support&#8221; of the economy – that may ultimately be responsible for running the economy of the edge of a cliff.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-274928</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-274928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On &quot;Classic F.M.&quot; (supposedly part of the private alternative to the BBC) &quot;Danny&quot; Alaxander was described as part of the &quot;Tory Europhile fightbaclk&quot; against David Cameron (who they seemed to regard as some sort of anti E.U. person).

I do not know what disgusts me more, the ignorance of the &quot;mainstream&quot; media (Mr Alexander is, of course, not a member of the Conservative Party) or their utter bias - which is so total they do not even understand they are biased.

However, I think the &quot;Europhiles&quot; (the media, the education system, and the corrupt corporate welfare seeking &quot;businessmen&quot;) are going to lose. And I think, in the end, it will be oddly easy.

Even a supposed man-of-blood such as myself is not predicting any shooting and throat slitting over this one, there is not going to be any fighting. The &quot;Europhiles&quot; will just collapse under the weight of their corrupt absurdity.

Many things scare me - but the European Union is not one of them, this particular absurdity is going to collapse.

The terrible thing is that it is not the real problem - certainly its regulations do terrible harm (see the works of Christoper Booker and Richard North on this), but the central problems facing Britain are the out of control Welfare State and the credit bubble financial-banking system.

And neither of these things is really an E.U. thing - although, yes, the E.U. supports both of them.

It is all very depressing - and if I had an easy solution I would offer it (I do not have such an easy solution).

But at least the absurd E.U. will soon be no more - hopefully the BBC and the &quot;independent&quot; radio and television news will go with it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On &#8220;Classic F.M.&#8221; (supposedly part of the private alternative to the BBC) &#8220;Danny&#8221; Alaxander was described as part of the &#8220;Tory Europhile fightbaclk&#8221; against David Cameron (who they seemed to regard as some sort of anti E.U. person).</p>
<p>I do not know what disgusts me more, the ignorance of the &#8220;mainstream&#8221; media (Mr Alexander is, of course, not a member of the Conservative Party) or their utter bias &#8211; which is so total they do not even understand they are biased.</p>
<p>However, I think the &#8220;Europhiles&#8221; (the media, the education system, and the corrupt corporate welfare seeking &#8220;businessmen&#8221;) are going to lose. And I think, in the end, it will be oddly easy.</p>
<p>Even a supposed man-of-blood such as myself is not predicting any shooting and throat slitting over this one, there is not going to be any fighting. The &#8220;Europhiles&#8221; will just collapse under the weight of their corrupt absurdity.</p>
<p>Many things scare me &#8211; but the European Union is not one of them, this particular absurdity is going to collapse.</p>
<p>The terrible thing is that it is not the real problem &#8211; certainly its regulations do terrible harm (see the works of Christoper Booker and Richard North on this), but the central problems facing Britain are the out of control Welfare State and the credit bubble financial-banking system.</p>
<p>And neither of these things is really an E.U. thing &#8211; although, yes, the E.U. supports both of them.</p>
<p>It is all very depressing &#8211; and if I had an easy solution I would offer it (I do not have such an easy solution).</p>
<p>But at least the absurd E.U. will soon be no more &#8211; hopefully the BBC and the &#8220;independent&#8221; radio and television news will go with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnathan Pearce</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-274854</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnathan Pearce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-274854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick asks if we want to be like Switzerland.

Answer: Yes. If only. The country has had to put up with a fair degree of international gnashing of teeth and bullying over its bank secrecy laws, but the country has one of the highest per-capita incomes in the world, is well educated, peaceful, prosperous, and fairly free of crime and related problems. Yes, some of its circumstances cannot be replicated by an island nation such as the UK, but that is hardly much of a problem. 

I also like the fact that Swiss politicians are low-key to the point of being invisible, and I also like the robust independent spirit of that country. 

And the Swiss understand also things such as defence policy means defence, rather than hyperactive interventionism, although in some cases foreign intervention, if you are a big power with lots of sea-routes and connections, is hard to avoid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick asks if we want to be like Switzerland.</p>
<p>Answer: Yes. If only. The country has had to put up with a fair degree of international gnashing of teeth and bullying over its bank secrecy laws, but the country has one of the highest per-capita incomes in the world, is well educated, peaceful, prosperous, and fairly free of crime and related problems. Yes, some of its circumstances cannot be replicated by an island nation such as the UK, but that is hardly much of a problem. </p>
<p>I also like the fact that Swiss politicians are low-key to the point of being invisible, and I also like the robust independent spirit of that country. </p>
<p>And the Swiss understand also things such as defence policy means defence, rather than hyperactive interventionism, although in some cases foreign intervention, if you are a big power with lots of sea-routes and connections, is hard to avoid.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin B</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-274828</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-274828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is probably not the time to re-hash the arguments over the Norwegian or Swiss arrangements with the EU and how they get along perfectly well in EFTA or EEA and have plenty of say in their trading arrangements with their neighbours.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/danielhannan/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Daniel Hannan&lt;/a&gt; does that at least twice a week.

I will comment on how poor Dave has had to respond to yesterday&#039;s &#039;big boys&#039; - Clarke, Heseltine and Mandelson - by saying that Britain could manage quite happily outside the EU, but it would not be in Britain&#039;s interest, or Dave&#039;s I suspect.

The big question is will the Euro manage to last until the next UK general election.  If Dave promises an in/out referendum but doesn&#039;t get it done before the euro goes tits up, I suspect he, (and Ed and Cleggy), will have some &#039;re-positioning&#039; to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably not the time to re-hash the arguments over the Norwegian or Swiss arrangements with the EU and how they get along perfectly well in EFTA or EEA and have plenty of say in their trading arrangements with their neighbours.  <a href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/danielhannan/" rel="nofollow">Daniel Hannan</a> does that at least twice a week.</p>
<p>I will comment on how poor Dave has had to respond to yesterday&#8217;s &#8216;big boys&#8217; &#8211; Clarke, Heseltine and Mandelson &#8211; by saying that Britain could manage quite happily outside the EU, but it would not be in Britain&#8217;s interest, or Dave&#8217;s I suspect.</p>
<p>The big question is will the Euro manage to last until the next UK general election.  If Dave promises an in/out referendum but doesn&#8217;t get it done before the euro goes tits up, I suspect he, (and Ed and Cleggy), will have some &#8216;re-positioning&#8217; to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaded Voluntaryist</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-274789</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded Voluntaryist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-274789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick,
I&#039;m always in favour of secession at all levels, up to and including right  down to the level of the individual.

But if my hand thinks he&#039;s going off alone he&#039;s got another thing coming.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,<br />
I&#8217;m always in favour of secession at all levels, up to and including right  down to the level of the individual.</p>
<p>But if my hand thinks he&#8217;s going off alone he&#8217;s got another thing coming&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: APL</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-274774</link>
		<dc:creator>APL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-274774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick Gray: &quot;As Tony Blair pointed out, do you really want to be like Switzerland, having to comply with your major trading partner, but having no say in what it does?&quot;

Citing Tony Blair as argumentum ad verecundiam is unlikely to give your point much credit.

But if you mean &#039;like Switzerland&#039; as in the UK like the UK with regard to the USA or like the UK with regard to Japan or like the UK with regard to Russia - what is you point?

With none of those significant trading partners do we have much say in their internal affairs, we still trade with them pretty well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick Gray: &#8220;As Tony Blair pointed out, do you really want to be like Switzerland, having to comply with your major trading partner, but having no say in what it does?&#8221;</p>
<p>Citing Tony Blair as argumentum ad verecundiam is unlikely to give your point much credit.</p>
<p>But if you mean &#8216;like Switzerland&#8217; as in the UK like the UK with regard to the USA or like the UK with regard to Japan or like the UK with regard to Russia &#8211; what is you point?</p>
<p>With none of those significant trading partners do we have much say in their internal affairs, we still trade with them pretty well.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick (nice-guy) Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-274711</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick (nice-guy) Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 04:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-274711</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But would leaving the EU really be in Britain&#039;s interests? You&#039;d need to deal with it in some way- so is divorce the best answer? Can&#039;t you work something out, together?
As Tony Blair pointed out, do you really want to be like Switzerland, having to comply with your major trading partner, but having no say in what it does?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But would leaving the EU really be in Britain&#8217;s interests? You&#8217;d need to deal with it in some way- so is divorce the best answer? Can&#8217;t you work something out, together?<br />
As Tony Blair pointed out, do you really want to be like Switzerland, having to comply with your major trading partner, but having no say in what it does?</p>
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		<title>By: Jaded Voluntaryist</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2013/01/the-political-class-is-getting-uneasy/#comment-274701</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded Voluntaryist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samizdata.net/?p=16313#comment-274701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I tell you one thing, if we don&#039;t leave a whole swathe of politicians on both sides of the aisle will be turning up in juicy EU commissioner posts over the next few years.

It&#039;s getting to the point that they are making themselves completely unelectable to any post that has a hint of democracy in its selection process.

They must have been offered something pretty damn sweet to both betray their country and ensure they will be unable to continue as MPs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tell you one thing, if we don&#8217;t leave a whole swathe of politicians on both sides of the aisle will be turning up in juicy EU commissioner posts over the next few years.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s getting to the point that they are making themselves completely unelectable to any post that has a hint of democracy in its selection process.</p>
<p>They must have been offered something pretty damn sweet to both betray their country and ensure they will be unable to continue as MPs.</p>
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