For the record I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the substance of the moral criticism, I just find it surprising that libertarians (if that is a fair general label) are criticizing free speech as immoral.

I do not think a politician of any hue has any right to be treated as a normal member of civil society.

These are the people who direct a great many aspects of our lives at gunpoint and who confiscate a huge portion of our wealth under threat of physical violence. To treat what they say as “just an opinion” is utter folly.

Of course Cameron has the right to offer his opinions on moral issues. He also has the right to offer his opinions on how moral individual citizens are. But it is morally wrong for him to do the latter, because of his position.

I guess the last bit is where I disagree. If leaders cannot offer their opinions on the morality of behaviour, what do they have left to lead with? Legislation and coercion?

M.J. Oakeshott pointed out (for example in his “On Human Conduct”) that for a politician to use his office to attack a private law abiding subject, is vile (utterly vile).

What makes an opinion vile? I would agree that harassing an individual with the power of the law is vile, but the man can’t talk?

For the record I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the substance of the moral criticism, I just find it surprising that libertarians (if that is a fair general label) are criticizing free speech as immoral.

But then Oakeshott was a conservative – so David Cameron would despise him.

I temped once (’bout ten years ago) for HMRC. Gor blimey it was antedeluvian. I did data entry on a system so arcane it was like some medieval grimoire** and it was very paper-based. Security went like this. I signed something to say I’d be honest and the general rule was they had spot checks of the A/C you were dealing with. It was supposed to be 1 in a 100 but in actuality was far rarer. The acid test was if you had paper-work with the NINO on it. And it was a twilight shift so my line manager snoozed mostly (he was doing overtime). Some A/Cs were automatically red-flagged. These were celebs, politicos and yourself.

Sorry if any of this scares anyone.

*Preferably by some offshore intricacy.
**It was in terms of NI and the system at some enormous expense had been designed by Crapita. It was a typical Gov IT catastrophe because nobody involved in the planning was both conversant with the Byzantine goings on at NICO and the tech end. Suffice to say both Crapita and the Gov were both suing each other! Also worth noting is all the NI details were held on Crapitas mainframe in Warwickshire and I was at the big office in Longbenton, Newcastle. The connection often went down so we had make work in paper filing to do. Thes went of in airline-style cages to a vault that was roughly the size of that warehouse at the end of raiders of the Lost Ark.

Andrew Bennett,

Everyone (I think even politicians count as people) has the right to offer their opinions on moral issues.

Of course Cameron has the right to offer his opinions on moral issues. He also has the right to offer his opinions on how moral individual citizens are. But it is morally wrong for him to do the latter, because of his position. It was also very stupid politically.

HMRC officials are obliged to treat all taxpayers evenhandedly and to respect taxpayer confidentiality. (How well they fulfil these obligations is another matter; I am not necessarily saying they do badly.) As a condition of working for HMRC officials certainly do waive their ordinary political right to make comments about individuals, and like all civil servants they have to follow the civil service code which restricts political activity more and more as you rise up through the ranks. The high boss tax collector (a permanent secretary I think) is subject to extremely strong rules forbidding him or her to comment on individuals and on many general issues, where it could be seen to violate the political impartiality of the civil service.

Then he or she reports to the prime minister, who has the right to say almost anything (which does not mean he ought to say all that he could say), and who only holds that office at all by virtue of being leader of a political party.

The system is odd when you think about it.

Everyone (I think even politicians count as people) has the right to offer their opinions on moral issues.

Well yes… and no. Politicians are not just people “like anyone else”, they are the people directing the means of collective coercion and I think they exist outside of what is normally seen as “civil society”… it is a mistake to treat their utterances much as you would anyone else’s opinions.

How rightly horrified people would be if a prime minister were to publicly “name and shame” someone for sexual behaviour that he, the prime minister, found “morally repugnant” but which was not illegal.

That is nonsense. Or at least it should be. Everyone (I think even politicians count as people) has the right to offer their opinions on moral issues. Everyone has the right to argue their case in disagreement. The important thing is the absence of coercion in matters of individual freedom.

In the absence of law all we have is culture. If we are to have a decent society to live in we will need a good strong (non coercive) culture to keep it that way.

His initial approach of “What’s it got to do with you”, was immediately tempered within about a day to “Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa”. He quickly realised that this wasn’t about tax avoidance, but about making sure he still had a career after the week was over.

I have never watched “8 out of 10 Cats” on Channel 4, but I did this week, just to see the reaction of the team of comics and the audience on Jimmy Carr. He played the penitent very well and although the other comics got a few pointed jibes in it could have been much, much worse for him.

Cameron’s use of him to score a cheap political point was shabby and most people recognize that, equally most people resent the amount of tax they pay to the government to watch it being pissed away on the feckless, the EU and other things with which we do not agree.

In all, I have a new found respect for Mr. Carr and increased contempt for Mr. Cameron (if that were even possible).

The “8 out of 10 Cats” episode is available on 4OD, go and watch it and have a laugh. What is particularly funny is the lefty comedian on the centre-right who would clearly love to stick-it-to-him, but the audience isn’t in the mood and he knows it.

Shit show, but great Television.