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	<title>Comments on: Samizdata quote of the day</title>
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	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230630</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the interests of fairness....

I should state that Brentino did go to university in Gemany - it was only to get an important post that he went to Vienna.

I still think he would have found it very hard to get an important position in the Geman system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the interests of fairness&#8230;.</p>
<p>I should state that Brentino did go to university in Gemany &#8211; it was only to get an important post that he went to Vienna.</p>
<p>I still think he would have found it very hard to get an important position in the Geman system.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230629</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andrew F.

Rand did read Nietzsche - but this element in Nietzsche did not win out within him (this will confuse those who think that Rand was a follower of Nietzsche - actually if the above quote is what Nietzsche should have been then, in the end, Nietzsche was not a follower of Nietzsche).

The element in Nietzche that celebrates human achievement and virtue is what he calls &quot;Athena&quot; (after the Green Goddess of achievement and humans at their best).

But this is not the dominant theme in Nietzche - for example he even denies free will (the human capacity of choice - the basis of Athena).

To Nietzche the two real powers are Appolo (the &quot;illusion&quot; of morality and so on) and Dionysius (instint - wallowing in filth and so on).

And he chooses Dionysius (to him, in some moods, humans can not really choose at all - see above).

Ayn Rand may be a follower of Athena (in an athiest sense) - but Nietzsche (most of the time) is NOT.

Also people who associate Rand with Nietzsche also overlook the influence of ARISTOTLE upon her (this is astonishing - given the number of times Rand mentions Aristotle).

German education (unlike Austrian university education) downplayed Aristotle (because Aristotelianism was associated with the Catholic Church).

I believe this led to a fatal lack of balance (of realism - with both a big and a small &quot;R&quot;) in German philosophical thought - including that of Nietzsche.

I would argue that Carl Menger (the Founder of the Austrian School of Economics) was operating from a different PHILOSOPHICAL foundation from the German &quot;Historical School&quot; economists of his time (and that this led to the &quot;war of method&quot;).

Someone like Franz Branteno (who greatly influenced Menger philosophically) would have had problems emerging in the German educational system.

By the way - Rand is not &quot;trapped&quot; by numbers, she uses them as a way of getting the reader&#039;s attention (at several levels).

Again this goes back to classical ideas of how a speaker can engage the attention of hearers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew F.</p>
<p>Rand did read Nietzsche &#8211; but this element in Nietzsche did not win out within him (this will confuse those who think that Rand was a follower of Nietzsche &#8211; actually if the above quote is what Nietzsche should have been then, in the end, Nietzsche was not a follower of Nietzsche).</p>
<p>The element in Nietzche that celebrates human achievement and virtue is what he calls &#8220;Athena&#8221; (after the Green Goddess of achievement and humans at their best).</p>
<p>But this is not the dominant theme in Nietzche &#8211; for example he even denies free will (the human capacity of choice &#8211; the basis of Athena).</p>
<p>To Nietzche the two real powers are Appolo (the &#8220;illusion&#8221; of morality and so on) and Dionysius (instint &#8211; wallowing in filth and so on).</p>
<p>And he chooses Dionysius (to him, in some moods, humans can not really choose at all &#8211; see above).</p>
<p>Ayn Rand may be a follower of Athena (in an athiest sense) &#8211; but Nietzsche (most of the time) is NOT.</p>
<p>Also people who associate Rand with Nietzsche also overlook the influence of ARISTOTLE upon her (this is astonishing &#8211; given the number of times Rand mentions Aristotle).</p>
<p>German education (unlike Austrian university education) downplayed Aristotle (because Aristotelianism was associated with the Catholic Church).</p>
<p>I believe this led to a fatal lack of balance (of realism &#8211; with both a big and a small &#8220;R&#8221;) in German philosophical thought &#8211; including that of Nietzsche.</p>
<p>I would argue that Carl Menger (the Founder of the Austrian School of Economics) was operating from a different PHILOSOPHICAL foundation from the German &#8220;Historical School&#8221; economists of his time (and that this led to the &#8220;war of method&#8221;).</p>
<p>Someone like Franz Branteno (who greatly influenced Menger philosophically) would have had problems emerging in the German educational system.</p>
<p>By the way &#8211; Rand is not &#8220;trapped&#8221; by numbers, she uses them as a way of getting the reader&#8217;s attention (at several levels).</p>
<p>Again this goes back to classical ideas of how a speaker can engage the attention of hearers.</p>
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		<title>By: wh00ps</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230628</link>
		<dc:creator>wh00ps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[that passage in Galt&#039;s speech must come after i gace up reading it and skipped to the end.
Oh well, I&#039;m only human...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that passage in Galt&#8217;s speech must come after i gace up reading it and skipped to the end.<br />
Oh well, I&#8217;m only human&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alisa</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230627</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Jay Thomas: indeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay Thomas: indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: 'Nuke' Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230626</link>
		<dc:creator>'Nuke' Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 05:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, Regional, we are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Regional, we are.</p>
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		<title>By: Regional</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230625</link>
		<dc:creator>Regional</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 04:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230625</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For give if I&#039;m wrong but weren&#039;t all the great inventors only human?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For give if I&#8217;m wrong but weren&#8217;t all the great inventors only human?</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230624</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 03:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I want to speak out in defense of the phrase as its traditionally used, ie to highlight our weaknesses and failings. Human beings fuck up a lot... in a multitude of ways. An aspect of the human condition that we all have to come to terms with is the gap between the kind of people we can imagine and the kind of people that actually exist. Everyone can imagine an idealized fully realized version of themselves stripped of frailties and flaws. Hero images suffuse our culture and our dreams. In our actual messy lives though, we will always fall short of the level of excellence we can imagine. Learning from your own mistakes and those of others is vital sure, but so is learning to accept that you and those around you will continue to make them.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to speak out in defense of the phrase as its traditionally used, ie to highlight our weaknesses and failings. Human beings fuck up a lot&#8230; in a multitude of ways. An aspect of the human condition that we all have to come to terms with is the gap between the kind of people we can imagine and the kind of people that actually exist. Everyone can imagine an idealized fully realized version of themselves stripped of frailties and flaws. Hero images suffuse our culture and our dreams. In our actual messy lives though, we will always fall short of the level of excellence we can imagine. Learning from your own mistakes and those of others is vital sure, but so is learning to accept that you and those around you will continue to make them.  </p>
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		<title>By: Hmm</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230623</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 01:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As with all utterances, context and perception define the phrase &quot;It&#039;s only human&quot;.  

Words are a tool and Ayn Rand, only too well, understood how this tool was being abused to perform bad things and yet cause those actions to be acknowledged as (politically~quasi-)good... 

In the John Galt Speech using the phrase &quot;It&#039;s only human&quot; she pinpoints how three simple good words can hide a multiplex of lies and distortions.... and more:

When used in such a way - short memorable (stock) phrases skew language towards the political...becoming a social hint to act in a certain fashion.., and later as a warning to toe the line. It&#039;s not that the language is bad or lacking - it is that the context is changed in pursuit of subtle manipulation.

&quot;It&#039;s only human&quot; is perfectly acceptable as a phrase  to use to define all the limits of humankind, both good and bad, up, down and squirly.  Ayn Rand was pointing up that it was pschologically manipulative to use it in the way described. Ace has a post on something similar at the moment &lt;a href=&quot;http://ace.mu.nu/archives/326746.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;(Thought)&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As with all utterances, context and perception define the phrase &#8220;It&#8217;s only human&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Words are a tool and Ayn Rand, only too well, understood how this tool was being abused to perform bad things and yet cause those actions to be acknowledged as (politically~quasi-)good&#8230; </p>
<p>In the John Galt Speech using the phrase &#8220;It&#8217;s only human&#8221; she pinpoints how three simple good words can hide a multiplex of lies and distortions&#8230;. and more:</p>
<p>When used in such a way &#8211; short memorable (stock) phrases skew language towards the political&#8230;becoming a social hint to act in a certain fashion.., and later as a warning to toe the line. It&#8217;s not that the language is bad or lacking &#8211; it is that the context is changed in pursuit of subtle manipulation.</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s only human&#8221; is perfectly acceptable as a phrase  to use to define all the limits of humankind, both good and bad, up, down and squirly.  Ayn Rand was pointing up that it was pschologically manipulative to use it in the way described. Ace has a post on something similar at the moment <a href="http://ace.mu.nu/archives/326746.php" rel="nofollow">(Thought)</a></p>
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		<title>By: 'Nuke' Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230622</link>
		<dc:creator>'Nuke' Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Has anyone else noticed how Rand is trapped in western number paradigms? Galt gives us seven examples of bad humans, and then seven examples of good! I have read that she played with hebrew ideas that there must be 36 saints on the Earth all the time- and Dagny is introduced to 36 people in That Valley. Any others?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone else noticed how Rand is trapped in western number paradigms? Galt gives us seven examples of bad humans, and then seven examples of good! I have read that she played with hebrew ideas that there must be 36 saints on the Earth all the time- and Dagny is introduced to 36 people in That Valley. Any others?</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Scott Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230621</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Scott Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops. Make that &#039;subjunctive&#039;. Sorry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops. Make that &#8216;subjunctive&#8217;. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Scott Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230620</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Scott Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 23:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Despite having read most of her work, I&#039;ve never rated Ms. Rand as much of a writer. Yet her continued used of the conditional subunctive is enough to make me reconsider my opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite having read most of her work, I&#8217;ve never rated Ms. Rand as much of a writer. Yet her continued used of the conditional subunctive is enough to make me reconsider my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Tedd</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2012/02/samizdata-quote-961/#comment-230619</link>
		<dc:creator>Tedd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=14728#comment-230619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, what PersonFromPorlock said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, what PersonFromPorlock said.</p>
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