Comments on: From reading science fiction to libertarianism – and to reading history

By: Cousin Dave

Cousin Dave — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:35:08 +0000

I went through phases. I read SF as a young child, but had no interest in history prior to high school. The semseter that I had Civics was when the Yom Kippur War occurred. The teacher seized on the opportunity, and deviated from the syllabus to cover the war and its antecedents in class. We learnd about the Six Day War, the UN’s creation of modern Israel, the Soviet support of the Arabs and who the players in the region were, and what happened there during WWII. We unfortunately didn’t go back much further than that, but there wasn’t time in the semester. That was my first sense of “wow, history matters.” From there I took an interest in history, mostly 19th and 20th century, and didn’t read much SF (or any other fiction) for a while.

In college, I was inspired to go seek out Rand’s “Anthem” by listening to Rush’s “2112″. That kicked off a new phase of SF for me (that and access to the university library), and it was the first time that I really started to put SF and history together. I remember, when I read “Anthem”, being hit by the realization that the age of freedom was a historical event in the story, and being horrified that a society of human beings would ever willingly turn their backs on freedom and liberty. (That was before I knew much about Nazi Germany, or the Soviet Union, or the Roman Empire.) Over time I sought out more stories like that, attempting to understand that phenomomen. A frequent trope in ’80s SF is that Earth has become a repository of socialism and tyranny, and that all freedom-loving people have moved out into space and developed new societies elsewhere. All of Earth has, in effect, become Europe, and space is the new American West. I still wonder if that is actually going to be the outcome in another half-century or so.

By: Al Nugent

Al Nugent — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 02:13:20 +0000

By rough count 7 of 30 comments mention Robert A Heinlein. Is there another author of science fiction who gets as many mentions?
Recently I’ve been re-reading his juveniles from the 1950′s, while deciding if I’d get in too much trouble if I gave them to my Nephews and Nieces.
At one point or another in nearly every Heinlein “children’s” story the protagonist eventually has to go to bat against the “authority’ figure in their life to succeed and survive. That has to have had an effect over time, especially if as in my case they lead you to read all of his adult novels too.
Having read the Harry Potter novels with my children the same sort of rational actors versus the system theme seems to be a recurring feature of them too. I wonder if in 30 years some son of Samizdata won’t be asking the same question about them.

By: Paul Marks

Paul Marks — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 21:52:42 +0000

Yes I was (and am) a fan of science fiction.

And I am big reader of history – always have been. And the sort of questions that Brian mentions are the sort of questions that interest me.

So, yes, I fall into the sterotype.

By: Steve Willson

Steve Willson — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 13:50:18 +0000

I started with Heinlein and Andre Norton as a pre-teen, then got into military history and did that up through my four years in the US Army. Later my studies of World War Two moved more towards the human aspects than the military – questions like “How did people not see Hitler was dangerous?” and “What really happened during the Holocaust; not just the numbers but who did this and why?”

Now for 4 years I’ve been studying the Enlightenment and the era leading up to England’s civil wars and the rights which developed from those conflicts. I now watch the continuing erosion of those rights in the US and other countries and I am truly afraid for the future. For the first time in my life I am grateful I don’t have children. But my nephews and my girlfriend’s grandchildren will not live as free as I have and I think that is tragic.

By: Patrick Crozier

Patrick Crozier — Sun, 25 Dec 2011 21:21:58 +0000

Hmm, looks like I’m a bit of an exception. While I read a lot of history as a child I read almost no sci fi at all.

By: Sgt. Mom

Sgt. Mom — Sun, 25 Dec 2011 16:36:22 +0000

Yep – pretty much my development curve: altough I read at least as much history as I did science fiction as a kid/teenager. I think I was mainly interested in looking at a time/place where things were different from the here/now.
Now, I create a world … as a writer of historical fiction. A fun amusement for the detail-obsessed!

By: David Davis

David Davis — Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:19:48 +0000

Absolutely and totally right, Brian. It was exactly the route you said.

By: Mr Eugenides

Mr Eugenides — Sun, 25 Dec 2011 09:25:09 +0000

SF is obviously a very broad church, but one strand that I have long noticed is that SF writers don’t tend to write about government unless they’re describing despotisms, galactic empires of various hues of unpleasantness, or occasionally bureaucracies. Even though Iain Banks is careful to make his hedonistic, individualistic Culture a mixed blessing (lest socialists get any unwise ideas), his depictions of government and authority is pretty laced with contempt.

Sure, there’s always been a strong element of utopianism in SF too – “after the nuclear holocaust of the early 22nd century, the surviving people of Earth came together in a world government to ensure that mankind never again had access to the most destructive weapons that his technology had created”, etc etc – but a lot of SF shows a future in which all things are possible as a result of technological innovation and human ingenuity – not through the offices of benevolent, efficient governments.

In that regard it’s probably more realistic than much contemporary fiction.

By: Dale Amon

Dale Amon — Sun, 25 Dec 2011 00:54:43 +0000

I think SF led me towards libertarian ideas but not towards history. I read my mom’s Latin Primer when I was about 8 or 9 and was interested in Romans and such; in my teens I was drawn to Hornblower and Dumas and I think I read my way through all of them before I was 16.

By: Westerlyman

Westerlyman — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 20:19:51 +0000

Since I started reading books for pleasure at 8 years old I have been interested in reading just about anything. But my especial favourites are Heinlein, Varley, Tolkien, Pratchett, Scarrow, O’Brien…. You get the point: fantasy, science fiction and historical fiction (and non-fiction).

Brian certainly seems to have a point. I am not sure about libertarians being more intelligent (I think there are different types of intelligence anyway) but I do think that libertarians tend not to be conventional thinkers. Certainly most seem more interested in testing ideas for truth and not in seeking approval of others or joining gangs. Probably why getting libertarians to agree on anything is quite tough.

By: Chuck6134

Chuck6134 — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 19:13:59 +0000

Been reading scifi since I was a preteen and history (military,political, economic) at virtually the same time. Did they influence my gradual movement philosophically from (from want of a better term) small ‘r’ republicanism to a small ‘l’ libertarian?

Taken together, the answer is yes. From the world of facts in history to the varying what ifs of scifi, both highlighted the actual and likely failures of the state as God. That and growing up in the 60s/70s with ALL their attendant failures of the state….

By: Rob Fisher

Rob Fisher — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 18:21:16 +0000

This idea also got mentioned about my post about maps and territories, which is what Brian couldn't remember. I was playing with Insightify at the time and made a poll at the suggestion of someone in the comments. 21 people responded, all were libertarian and all read science fiction in their formative years. That's out of people who read far enough through the comments and clicked the poll link, though.