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Samizdata quote of the day

What a pity there is no culture of personal defence and widespread concealed carry in Norway as it would have been nice to see one of the victims shoot back at the bastard.

- A sentiment much echoed in various armed self-defence forums regarding the recent atrocity in Norway.

18 comments to Samizdata quote of the day

  • Kevyn Bodman

    Yes. 100% agreement.

    I keep in my ‘favourites’ a link to an old Samizdata post- ‘Quite possibly the greatest video ever’,

    http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2009/01/speaking_truth_1.html

  • dha

    Since it’s a Labour Party camp, presumably they would have banned guns even if the law didn’t require it? Just being realistic.

  • Unfortunately I’m not aware of any culture in the real world that encourages teenagers to carry weapons and use them to shoot back at (apparent) police officers.

  • Unfortunately I’m not aware of any culture in the real world that encourages teenagers to carry weapons and use them to shoot back at (apparent) police officers.

    Were the teenagers not in the company of some adults?

  • Jane Wilfield

    I grew up in Rhodesia and as a teenager I was never more than a shout from a relative or some other adult I knew who had a weapon and knew how to use it. By the time I was 16 I could strip and reassemble an R1 with my eyes closed and I never when anywhere without my Browning 9mm, including church and school. And I was taught to shoot at anyone shooting at me, regardless of what they were wearing.

  • Subotai Bahadur

    The cultural differences are key. The attendees at the Labour Party [Norwegian] Youth Camp were the next generation of the Zampoliti, Apparatchniki, and Nomenklatura of Norway’s ruling elite. Given that this was a “Leadership Conference” of a Socialist Party, the very last thing one would expect is leadership and initiative. For some reason, the poster of the sheep in Brian Micklethwait’s Brittany pictures comes to mind.

    I was reminded today of a classroom shooting in 1998 in Springfield, Oregon. A 15 year old named Kip Kinkle murdered his parents, and went to his high school with 2 semi-automatic pistols [1-9mm, 1- .22 cal.], a semi-automatic rifle [.22 cal.], and 1100 rounds of ammunition.

    He entered the school and opened fire, fortunately with the .22′s. He killed 2 and wounded 24. While he was reloading, he was tackled by 2 students [one already wounded], who were assisted then by several more. He got off one shot with the 9 mm, but was held for police.

    The first two who got to him were being praised as heroes, until it came out that they were NRA members. Suddenly, the media lost interest.

    It is striking that in a group of 700 selected future leaders, no one resisted. No one charged him as he reloaded, no one even threw rocks. In an average American high school, there were at least a handful who resisted, led by one who was already wounded. Not claiming superiority, just noting that the cultures are very different under stress.

    Subotai Bahadur

  • Half Pint

    Firstly my condolences to the families fo those killed.
    I can understand them not having guns – it was a summer youth camp (and a Labour one on top) – but what I don’t understand is that of the 100+ 14 to 19 year olds and accompanying adults, none teamed up to at least try to jump him, club him unconscious or even throw things at him. In essence there does not appear to have been any attempt at self defence.

    I have never been shot at, so maybe you do freeze up in fear if not trained but still, these are the descendants of the Vikings.

  • Half Pint

    Not sure why I did not see Subotal’s comment but he said the same thing far more eloquently than I ever could, so please feel free to delete mine.

  • ian

    It is striking that in a group of 700 selected future leaders, no one resisted. No one charged him as he reloaded, no one even threw rocks. In an average American high school, there were at least a handful who resisted, led by one who was already wounded. Not claiming superiority, just noting that the cultures are very different under stress.

    Subotai Bahadur

    …and you know this how? Have you spoken to the survivors? Or perhaps you have a hot line to the other side and spoken to the dead?

  • …and you know this how? Have you spoken to the survivors? Or perhaps you have a hot line to the other side and spoken to the dead?

    I’m guessing he is just going by the copious TV coverage and written accounts that have been printed, none of which so far suggest otherwise.

  • Jerry

    My condolences to the families as well
    however –

    ‘Don’t take the law into your own hands’
    You’re not ‘trained’ for this’
    ‘Wait for the authorities’
    ‘This is the police’s job’
    ‘You could get hurt’
    ‘Don’t do anything stupid’

    Sound familiar ?
    After DECADES of this endless drumbeat is it any wonder that there is no initiative, no courage, no guts, no common sense ( THROW SOMETHING at him ! ).

    For the most part just a bunch of sheep waiting on someone else to save them because that’s what they’ve been ‘trained’ to do.

  • ragingnick

    the shooter effectively wiped out an entire generation of socialist Norwegian politicians. through their own anti-gun laws the Norwegian left have been hoisted by their own petard

  • JJ Metcalfe

    Who is Samizdata Illuminatus, and does he/she also have a pseudonym of ‘Richard’?

    I think we should be told.

  • Who is Samizdata Illuminatus…

    That would be me, a resident of Arkham, Massachusetts…

    …and does he/she also have a pseudonym of ‘Richard’?

    My name is Legion, for we are many

  • Gary

    Ragingnick seems to be of the EJM (Ends Justify Means) mindset from which nutters like Brevik and Bin Laden spring.

    What you see in Brevik is the lack of self-doubt, hillarious certainty of viewpoint, and ideological fervour of a nutter, a man who has never questioned a single thing about himself, or pondered the effects of his actions on other people, all things which are faciliated by the leading cause of EJM; religion.

  • thefrollickingmole

    This (if true) is the saddest result of indoctrinating kids that there are no bad people, only misunderstood ones.

    “Some of my friends tried to stop him by talking to him. Many people think on the island that it was a test … comparing it to how it is to live in Gaza. So many people went to him and tried to talk to him, but they were shot immediately.” – Adrian Pracon

    They had held a pro-palestinian shindig the day before, so thats probably where the whole “its not real” mindset came in.

    I cant say anything about self defence though, maybe some tried, but the killer was motivated, well armed and appears to have been a good shot.

    Im amazed a man who could so coldly execute this plan was able to function and run the businesses needed to provide the access to the explosives used.

  • John K

    Gun ownership is widespread in Norway, but we are talking about rifles and shotguns used for hunting. They are meant to be stored away when not in use, so any figure of the percentage of Norwegians who own guns would not be relevent in this context.

    As to the people trying to talk him out of it, I had not heard of that, but it is the most pathetic thing I have ever come across. Truly he seems to have known who he was dealing with. I remember years ago when I was at school, and got mugged on my way home. I tried to reason with my attacker, and got a punch in the mouth. I took to carrying a knife at all times after that (it was the 1970s, and there wasn’t the current hysteria over kids with knives), and resolved that anyone who attacked me was going to get it fast and furious, with no discussion. I never was attacked after that, though I can’t claim cause and effect!

  • I never was attacked after that, though I can’t claim cause and effect!

    You can, to an extent: it may have not been the knife itself, but the attitude that showed in your demeanor.