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	<title>Comments on: Samizdata quote of the day</title>
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	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198038</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Almost needless to say the people who ordered the building of the Berlin Wall loved &quot;liberal Christianity&quot; - they understood that its lack of belief and its desire to always been on the side of &quot;progressiveness&quot; meant it was no threat. Indeed they understood that it was an ally - and not just in Europe, extreme forms of &quot;liberalness&quot; i.e. the Marxism of &quot;Liberation Theology&quot; and &quot;Black Liberation Theology&quot; (and so on) have been very useful to the forces of evil all over the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Almost needless to say the people who ordered the building of the Berlin Wall loved &#8220;liberal Christianity&#8221; &#8211; they understood that its lack of belief and its desire to always been on the side of &#8220;progressiveness&#8221; meant it was no threat. Indeed they understood that it was an ally &#8211; and not just in Europe, extreme forms of &#8220;liberalness&#8221; i.e. the Marxism of &#8220;Liberation Theology&#8221; and &#8220;Black Liberation Theology&#8221; (and so on) have been very useful to the forces of evil all over the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198037</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RAB - I had all sorts of problems with that series.

For example in the first episode we had talk of the &quot;first Christian Kingdom&quot; - ah, I thought, the man is going to talk about Armenia. But instead we got some sillyness instead. There was so much sillyness in the series I have not been able to sit and watch a single episode all through (I keep switching stations because the errors and so on irritate me).

As for Martin Luther - to talk of Luther without discussing predestination is bad. But the man even talked about John Calvin without discussing predestination - I give up.

I heard the maker of the series, on the radio about a month ago. He stuck me as a typical modern academic - a mixture of arrogance and ignorance.

By the way his basic thesis (which does not take long to spot) is false. Christianity has not flurished by adapting to whatever society it finds itself in - or by accepting any social change.

Certainly their are debates and changes within Christianity (as there were in the Catholic Church long before Luther), but Churches that accept everything - that just go along with whatever intellectial  fashions come up, do not flourish.

In fact a Church dooms itself by doing that - look at the fate of the once &quot;mainstream&quot; Protestant Churches in the United States (and elsewhere) their &quot;liberalism&quot; (i.e. lack of belief) has led them down the same plug hole that the once &quot;mainstream&quot; media are going. It is the same of the Anglican Church in Britain - it is on the road to extinction, &quot;liberalism&quot; is killing it.

The Roman Catholic church also came close to destroying itself by the interpretations that were pushed of the Second Vatican Council, although the last two Popes do seem to have dragged the Catholic Church back from the brink of destruction.

No suprise for guessing that the BBC academic hates John Paul II and Benedict XVI.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAB &#8211; I had all sorts of problems with that series.</p>
<p>For example in the first episode we had talk of the &#8220;first Christian Kingdom&#8221; &#8211; ah, I thought, the man is going to talk about Armenia. But instead we got some sillyness instead. There was so much sillyness in the series I have not been able to sit and watch a single episode all through (I keep switching stations because the errors and so on irritate me).</p>
<p>As for Martin Luther &#8211; to talk of Luther without discussing predestination is bad. But the man even talked about John Calvin without discussing predestination &#8211; I give up.</p>
<p>I heard the maker of the series, on the radio about a month ago. He stuck me as a typical modern academic &#8211; a mixture of arrogance and ignorance.</p>
<p>By the way his basic thesis (which does not take long to spot) is false. Christianity has not flurished by adapting to whatever society it finds itself in &#8211; or by accepting any social change.</p>
<p>Certainly their are debates and changes within Christianity (as there were in the Catholic Church long before Luther), but Churches that accept everything &#8211; that just go along with whatever intellectial  fashions come up, do not flourish.</p>
<p>In fact a Church dooms itself by doing that &#8211; look at the fate of the once &#8220;mainstream&#8221; Protestant Churches in the United States (and elsewhere) their &#8220;liberalism&#8221; (i.e. lack of belief) has led them down the same plug hole that the once &#8220;mainstream&#8221; media are going. It is the same of the Anglican Church in Britain &#8211; it is on the road to extinction, &#8220;liberalism&#8221; is killing it.</p>
<p>The Roman Catholic church also came close to destroying itself by the interpretations that were pushed of the Second Vatican Council, although the last two Popes do seem to have dragged the Catholic Church back from the brink of destruction.</p>
<p>No suprise for guessing that the BBC academic hates John Paul II and Benedict XVI.</p>
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		<title>By: Costello</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198036</link>
		<dc:creator>Costello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That really is an excellent quote.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That really is an excellent quote.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198035</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An Emissions Trading Scheme has just been shot down in Australia, mainly due to a new Liberal leader (Tony Abbott), widely criticized for his Catholicism (described as the &#039;mad monk&#039;).

Looking at Carbon Credits as Indulgences, we can really see an ETS as Pascal&#039;s Wager. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An Emissions Trading Scheme has just been shot down in Australia, mainly due to a new Liberal leader (Tony Abbott), widely criticized for his Catholicism (described as the &#8216;mad monk&#8217;).</p>
<p>Looking at Carbon Credits as Indulgences, we can really see an ETS as Pascal&#8217;s Wager. </p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198034</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An Emissions Trading Scheme has just been shot down in Australia, mainly due to a new Liberal leader (Tony Abbott), widely criticized for his Catholicism (described as the &#039;mad monk&#039;).

Looking at Carbon Credits as Indulgences, we can really see an ETS as Pascal&#039;s Wager. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An Emissions Trading Scheme has just been shot down in Australia, mainly due to a new Liberal leader (Tony Abbott), widely criticized for his Catholicism (described as the &#8216;mad monk&#8217;).</p>
<p>Looking at Carbon Credits as Indulgences, we can really see an ETS as Pascal&#8217;s Wager. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198033</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I prefer &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.countingcats.com/?p=4745&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PA Annoyed&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; description of the &quot;greenhouse&quot; effect. 

Lindzen writes: &lt;em&gt;&quot;The defining characteristic of a greenhouse gas is that it is relatively transparent to visible light from the sun but can absorb portions of thermal radiation. In general, the earth balances the incoming solar radiation by emitting thermal radiation, and the presence of greenhouse substances inhibits cooling by thermal radiation and leads to some warming.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

Lindzen neglects the fact that plain old atmospheric pressure is what puts the skids under most thermal radiation, not carbon dioxide. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer <a href="http://www.countingcats.com/?p=4745" rel="nofollow">PA Annoyed&#8217;s</a> description of the &#8220;greenhouse&#8221; effect. </p>
<p>Lindzen writes: <em>&#8220;The defining characteristic of a greenhouse gas is that it is relatively transparent to visible light from the sun but can absorb portions of thermal radiation. In general, the earth balances the incoming solar radiation by emitting thermal radiation, and the presence of greenhouse substances inhibits cooling by thermal radiation and leads to some warming.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Lindzen neglects the fact that plain old atmospheric pressure is what puts the skids under most thermal radiation, not carbon dioxide. </p>
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		<title>By: Bod</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198032</link>
		<dc:creator>Bod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul,

Therein lies the real crime. Climategate has compromised society&#039;s efforts to determine whether AGW really does exist or not. 

While extraordinary claims should normally require extraordinary proofs, and the onus is on the Warmists to prove their case, the whole topic of AGW has acquired sufficient traction that we&#039;re in for decades of research to settle the issue on way or the other. 

These people, assuming they are found to have obstructed research, should suffer whatever is the scientist&#039;s equivalent of Mussolini&#039;s fate.

The Climate Unit should be demolished, the site sown with salt and the surviving personnel sent to work in some menial position at an NHS hospital.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,</p>
<p>Therein lies the real crime. Climategate has compromised society&#8217;s efforts to determine whether AGW really does exist or not. </p>
<p>While extraordinary claims should normally require extraordinary proofs, and the onus is on the Warmists to prove their case, the whole topic of AGW has acquired sufficient traction that we&#8217;re in for decades of research to settle the issue on way or the other. </p>
<p>These people, assuming they are found to have obstructed research, should suffer whatever is the scientist&#8217;s equivalent of Mussolini&#8217;s fate.</p>
<p>The Climate Unit should be demolished, the site sown with salt and the surviving personnel sent to work in some menial position at an NHS hospital.</p>
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		<title>By: correction</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198031</link>
		<dc:creator>correction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[andyinsdca,

&lt;blockquote&gt;That&#039;s farking brilliant.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Should read:

That&#039;s &lt;strong&gt;frakkin&lt;/strong&gt; brilliant.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Frak]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>andyinsdca,</p>
<blockquote><p>That&#8217;s farking brilliant.</p></blockquote>
<p>Should read:</p>
<p>That&#8217;s <strong>frakkin</strong> brilliant.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Frak" rel="nofollow">http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Frak</a></p>
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		<title>By: RAB</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198030</link>
		<dc:creator>RAB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198030</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article Laird, thanks for the link.

I have just been watching The History of Christianity Paul, you would enjoy it. They are up to the Reformation, and an analogy just popped into my head.

The person who posted the CRU emails and data can be likened to Luther. He objected to the selling of Indulgences to shorten our souls spell in pergatory, in fact the very idea of pergatory.
Well for Carbon credits and trading substitute Indulgences. Both bogus and fictional of course.

Before Luther &quot;God&quot; was settled as far as the Catholic church was concerned.
After Luther we had Protestantism, so God wasn&#039;t settled after all. Far from it.

So now we have the beginning of AGW Protestantism, now that we can get to examine how shoddy and dupicious the &quot;Settled&quot; science turns out to be.

It is going to be a long struggle to disprove these fanatical assertions of hellfire on earth, but I believe we will.
There are many vested interests here remember. As usual, follow the money.
Greens always scream that &quot;Deniers&quot; are in the pay of Big Oil, but look who finances the Warmers?

Well it&#039;s us via our taxes stolen by the usual gang of criminals...

Big Government.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Laird, thanks for the link.</p>
<p>I have just been watching The History of Christianity Paul, you would enjoy it. They are up to the Reformation, and an analogy just popped into my head.</p>
<p>The person who posted the CRU emails and data can be likened to Luther. He objected to the selling of Indulgences to shorten our souls spell in pergatory, in fact the very idea of pergatory.<br />
Well for Carbon credits and trading substitute Indulgences. Both bogus and fictional of course.</p>
<p>Before Luther &#8220;God&#8221; was settled as far as the Catholic church was concerned.<br />
After Luther we had Protestantism, so God wasn&#8217;t settled after all. Far from it.</p>
<p>So now we have the beginning of AGW Protestantism, now that we can get to examine how shoddy and dupicious the &#8220;Settled&#8221; science turns out to be.</p>
<p>It is going to be a long struggle to disprove these fanatical assertions of hellfire on earth, but I believe we will.<br />
There are many vested interests here remember. As usual, follow the money.<br />
Greens always scream that &#8220;Deniers&#8221; are in the pay of Big Oil, but look who finances the Warmers?</p>
<p>Well it&#8217;s us via our taxes stolen by the usual gang of criminals&#8230;</p>
<p>Big Government.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198029</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I happened to see the BBC &quot;News&quot; recently.  They are doing pieces on how bad &quot;climate change&quot; is going to be -- without mentioning that, by the way, there seems to have been some related shouting going on in the corner over there.

Goebbels would be proud of the BBC.  Whether one is convinced or not convinced in either direction on alleged anthropogenic global warming, forgetting to mention the recent evidence of fraud by climate &quot;scientists&quot; would be like forgetting to mention President Obama while relating the news on US Afghan policy.

Incidentally, Mr. Marks, that kind of willful failure on the part of those who believe they are our intellectual superiors is why so few thinking people are now prepared to give the Climate Gang the benefit of any doubt at all.  Show us the data!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I happened to see the BBC &#8220;News&#8221; recently.  They are doing pieces on how bad &#8220;climate change&#8221; is going to be &#8212; without mentioning that, by the way, there seems to have been some related shouting going on in the corner over there.</p>
<p>Goebbels would be proud of the BBC.  Whether one is convinced or not convinced in either direction on alleged anthropogenic global warming, forgetting to mention the recent evidence of fraud by climate &#8220;scientists&#8221; would be like forgetting to mention President Obama while relating the news on US Afghan policy.</p>
<p>Incidentally, Mr. Marks, that kind of willful failure on the part of those who believe they are our intellectual superiors is why so few thinking people are now prepared to give the Climate Gang the benefit of any doubt at all.  Show us the data!</p>
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		<title>By: Laird</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198028</link>
		<dc:creator>Laird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198028</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Highly unlikely, Paul. I commend to your attention the attached &lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703939404574567423917025400.html?mod=djemITP&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; in today&#039;s Wall Street Journal, by a Professor of Meteorology at MIT (a &lt;em&gt;true&lt;/em&gt; &quot;climate scientist&quot;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Highly unlikely, Paul. I commend to your attention the attached <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703939404574567423917025400.html?mod=djemITP" rel="nofollow">article</a> in today&#8217;s Wall Street Journal, by a Professor of Meteorology at MIT (a <em>true</em> &#8220;climate scientist&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/12/samizdata-quote-581/#comment-198027</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=13016#comment-198027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes many of the large companies in the world (especially the media companies - including large sections of News International) are working hand in glove with the green collectivists.

However, we must be careful.

The situation reminds me of corrupt policemen - the &quot;climate change&quot; crowd fake evidence, they try to destroy evidence that does not fit their theory, they shamelessly lie and cheat, but......

Remember that many of the people that corrupt policement try to &quot;fit up&quot; are actually guilty.

It is quite possible that there is a globel warming problem, and that C02 emissions are the cause of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes many of the large companies in the world (especially the media companies &#8211; including large sections of News International) are working hand in glove with the green collectivists.</p>
<p>However, we must be careful.</p>
<p>The situation reminds me of corrupt policemen &#8211; the &#8220;climate change&#8221; crowd fake evidence, they try to destroy evidence that does not fit their theory, they shamelessly lie and cheat, but&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>Remember that many of the people that corrupt policement try to &#8220;fit up&#8221; are actually guilty.</p>
<p>It is quite possible that there is a globel warming problem, and that C02 emissions are the cause of it.</p>
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