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	<title>Comments on: A left wing martyrdom reconsidered</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Natalie Solent</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188674</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalie Solent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 08:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[.. in fact I feel a Samizdata post germinating on &quot;Books I have read random bits of&quot;, and the definciencies that come from my wicked habits of dipping here there and everywhere in books rather than starting at Page 1. 

Returning to the subject of this post, there is also a great deal to be said about the sheer disparity of curiosity historians and journalists (even those who do not think of themselves as left wing) show about left wing villanies versus right wing. Yet I persist in thinking that the truth usually percolates through in the end. Look at Communism, the force than animated all these infiltrators, and to which hundreds of millions sincerely dedicated their lives. Evaporated like a bad smell. Yes, I know other related ideologies are very much alive (alas) but who now would dedicate themselves to that dead thing?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.. in fact I feel a Samizdata post germinating on &#8220;Books I have read random bits of&#8221;, and the definciencies that come from my wicked habits of dipping here there and everywhere in books rather than starting at Page 1. </p>
<p>Returning to the subject of this post, there is also a great deal to be said about the sheer disparity of curiosity historians and journalists (even those who do not think of themselves as left wing) show about left wing villanies versus right wing. Yet I persist in thinking that the truth usually percolates through in the end. Look at Communism, the force than animated all these infiltrators, and to which hundreds of millions sincerely dedicated their lives. Evaporated like a bad smell. Yes, I know other related ideologies are very much alive (alas) but who now would dedicate themselves to that dead thing?</p>
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		<title>By: Natalie Solent</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188673</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalie Solent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 08:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Paul. Right both times. Borrowed a copy of &lt;em&gt;Mao &lt;/em&gt;but didn&#039;t have time to read it all. Must remedy that. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Paul. Right both times. Borrowed a copy of <em>Mao </em>but didn&#8217;t have time to read it all. Must remedy that. </p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188672</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 22:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Natalie, the book to read on Communist infilitration on of the Nationalist Army (and many other things) is &quot;Mao: The Untold Story&quot;.

You have no doubt read &quot;Wild Swans&quot; - but it is possible you have not read the larger work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natalie, the book to read on Communist infilitration on of the Nationalist Army (and many other things) is &#8220;Mao: The Untold Story&#8221;.</p>
<p>You have no doubt read &#8220;Wild Swans&#8221; &#8211; but it is possible you have not read the larger work.</p>
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		<title>By: Ignatz Zablonsky</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188671</link>
		<dc:creator>Ignatz Zablonsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 13:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Could we call the murder of Benno Ohnesorg a Communist &#039;Reischstag fire&#039;? Could we call Karl-Heinz Kurras a Communist &#039;agent-provacateur&#039;?

Or is it politically incorrect to employ such terms in reference to Communists, as is the case with &#039;Holocaust&#039;?

To those who say that Joe McCarthy ruined the lives of innocent people, M. Stanton Evans replies: &quot;Name one.&quot; Yes, he used rough language, although not as rough as his antagonists in the media (including Soviet intelligence sources I.F. Stone, Michael Straight and Walter Lippmann), who routinely smeared him as a &#039;fascist,&#039; a &#039;Nazi,&#039; a homosexual, etc.

While McCarthy certainly made mistakes, his opponents actually lied to cover up the facts he got right. What got him in trouble were not his relatively minor errors, but his very important though inconvenient truths.

To get a flavor of how such truths were handled, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.conservapedia.com/Alger_Hiss&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could we call the murder of Benno Ohnesorg a Communist &#8216;Reischstag fire&#8217;? Could we call Karl-Heinz Kurras a Communist &#8216;agent-provacateur&#8217;?</p>
<p>Or is it politically incorrect to employ such terms in reference to Communists, as is the case with &#8216;Holocaust&#8217;?</p>
<p>To those who say that Joe McCarthy ruined the lives of innocent people, M. Stanton Evans replies: &#8220;Name one.&#8221; Yes, he used rough language, although not as rough as his antagonists in the media (including Soviet intelligence sources I.F. Stone, Michael Straight and Walter Lippmann), who routinely smeared him as a &#8216;fascist,&#8217; a &#8216;Nazi,&#8217; a homosexual, etc.</p>
<p>While McCarthy certainly made mistakes, his opponents actually lied to cover up the facts he got right. What got him in trouble were not his relatively minor errors, but his very important though inconvenient truths.</p>
<p>To get a flavor of how such truths were handled, see <a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Alger_Hiss" rel="nofollow">this</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: tehag</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188670</link>
		<dc:creator>tehag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 10:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would have made no difference. JFK was killed by a toad openly communist. Evil right-wingers still had the blame forced upon them by the likes of I F Stone. 

Because the communists ran the media, even if the the police officer had been revealed as a spy at the time, the steady drumbeat of the big lie (that the shooting exposed the repression inherent in the Capitalist system) would have overwhelmed all truth. Plus ca change....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would have made no difference. JFK was killed by a toad openly communist. Evil right-wingers still had the blame forced upon them by the likes of I F Stone. </p>
<p>Because the communists ran the media, even if the the police officer had been revealed as a spy at the time, the steady drumbeat of the big lie (that the shooting exposed the repression inherent in the Capitalist system) would have overwhelmed all truth. Plus ca change&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Natalie Solent</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188669</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalie Solent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 08:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul, if you have time I would be most interested to find out more about the events in Taiwan. I had heard of the &quot;228&quot; incident but had not heard this. Googling does not seem to turn up much, but perhaps I am using the wrong search terms. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, if you have time I would be most interested to find out more about the events in Taiwan. I had heard of the &#8220;228&#8243; incident but had not heard this. Googling does not seem to turn up much, but perhaps I am using the wrong search terms. </p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188668</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 17:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Still back the main theme of the post - &quot;right wing atrocities&quot; that turn out to be have in fact been committed by leftists for the purpose of discrediting antisocialists.

One example of this was the Taipei mass shootings.

When the Nationalists came to the island of Formosa (once a Portugese colony, then a Dutch one - and only later part of the Chinese empire) on the defeat of the Japanese Empire (which had ruled the island since 1895) the locals protested against inflation, and other misrule by the new government.

And the protesters were shot down in their hundreds - an event that helped further tarnish the image of the KMT

However, the General responsible for these shootings (his name - I can not remember his name) turned out to be a long term Communist agent, who was soon back on the mainland openly supporting Mao.

The Nationalist Army was full of such agents, they went right back to the terrible judgement of Sun Yat Sen to have the Soviets help set up the Nationalist miltary college back in the 1920&#039;s - Chou en-lai (later foolishly considered the moderate force in Mao&#039;s China - actually he was a lickspittle who went along with Mao&#039;s crimes) was one of the main Communist recruiters of sleeper agents at the college.

A successful Communist takes care to either build up his own military force or to subvert the existing one - or both.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still back the main theme of the post &#8211; &#8220;right wing atrocities&#8221; that turn out to be have in fact been committed by leftists for the purpose of discrediting antisocialists.</p>
<p>One example of this was the Taipei mass shootings.</p>
<p>When the Nationalists came to the island of Formosa (once a Portugese colony, then a Dutch one &#8211; and only later part of the Chinese empire) on the defeat of the Japanese Empire (which had ruled the island since 1895) the locals protested against inflation, and other misrule by the new government.</p>
<p>And the protesters were shot down in their hundreds &#8211; an event that helped further tarnish the image of the KMT</p>
<p>However, the General responsible for these shootings (his name &#8211; I can not remember his name) turned out to be a long term Communist agent, who was soon back on the mainland openly supporting Mao.</p>
<p>The Nationalist Army was full of such agents, they went right back to the terrible judgement of Sun Yat Sen to have the Soviets help set up the Nationalist miltary college back in the 1920&#8242;s &#8211; Chou en-lai (later foolishly considered the moderate force in Mao&#8217;s China &#8211; actually he was a lickspittle who went along with Mao&#8217;s crimes) was one of the main Communist recruiters of sleeper agents at the college.</p>
<p>A successful Communist takes care to either build up his own military force or to subvert the existing one &#8211; or both.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188667</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 17:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rich Paul (or rather other people - as Rich Paul is as a master of the &quot;drive by comment&quot;, he says something and does not bother to read anything that might show he is in error), you know nothing about Senator McCarthy&#039;s &quot;methods&quot;.

You are simply going along with the B.S. you were taught at school, college and which is backed up by Hollywood and the rest of the media.

It is easy to prove me wrong - show me that you have read M. Stanton Evan&#039;s &quot;Blacklisted by History&quot; (Random House, New York, 2007) and have refuted the generally pro McCarthy case made there.

Although of course Joe McCarthy made terrible blunders - the worst being the appointment of Roy Cohn as his chief assistant rather than Robert Kennedy.

Certainly Cohn was better qualified - but that was not the point. The Kennedy Clan could have protected McCarthy - whereas Roy Cohn was a target.

He was a Jew and a homosexual - which made people like Senator Flanders of Vermont fantical enemies, and enemies of anyone who employed him.

I am not saying that Joe McCarthy should have been antisemitic or a &quot;homophobe&quot; - but he should have shown some common sense (and promoted Kennedy not Cohn). Not put his head down and charged with his normal I-will-do-what-is-right-regardless-of-the-odds-or-the-consequences mantra.

That attitude reminds me of my father - and it also reminds me of me. And it is really dumb to behave the way I do.

Taking on the Communists was hard enough - without taking on Republicans like Senator Flanders as well. A serious politician has to live in the real world (where bigots have to be worked with). It was bad enough (from certain people&#039;s point of view) that McCarthy was Catholic and not from a good family, without him making things worse for himself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich Paul (or rather other people &#8211; as Rich Paul is as a master of the &#8220;drive by comment&#8221;, he says something and does not bother to read anything that might show he is in error), you know nothing about Senator McCarthy&#8217;s &#8220;methods&#8221;.</p>
<p>You are simply going along with the B.S. you were taught at school, college and which is backed up by Hollywood and the rest of the media.</p>
<p>It is easy to prove me wrong &#8211; show me that you have read M. Stanton Evan&#8217;s &#8220;Blacklisted by History&#8221; (Random House, New York, 2007) and have refuted the generally pro McCarthy case made there.</p>
<p>Although of course Joe McCarthy made terrible blunders &#8211; the worst being the appointment of Roy Cohn as his chief assistant rather than Robert Kennedy.</p>
<p>Certainly Cohn was better qualified &#8211; but that was not the point. The Kennedy Clan could have protected McCarthy &#8211; whereas Roy Cohn was a target.</p>
<p>He was a Jew and a homosexual &#8211; which made people like Senator Flanders of Vermont fantical enemies, and enemies of anyone who employed him.</p>
<p>I am not saying that Joe McCarthy should have been antisemitic or a &#8220;homophobe&#8221; &#8211; but he should have shown some common sense (and promoted Kennedy not Cohn). Not put his head down and charged with his normal I-will-do-what-is-right-regardless-of-the-odds-or-the-consequences mantra.</p>
<p>That attitude reminds me of my father &#8211; and it also reminds me of me. And it is really dumb to behave the way I do.</p>
<p>Taking on the Communists was hard enough &#8211; without taking on Republicans like Senator Flanders as well. A serious politician has to live in the real world (where bigots have to be worked with). It was bad enough (from certain people&#8217;s point of view) that McCarthy was Catholic and not from a good family, without him making things worse for himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Ayrdale</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188666</link>
		<dc:creator>Ayrdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 04:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here in NZ our legacy of those days is our nuclear free fantasy.  Based of course on fear, and driven by left wing &quot;peace activists&quot; it is a blot on the image of NZ as a free thinking society.

The politicians who supported the Soviet led Western &quot;peace movement&quot;  in NZ and elsewhere are still powerful. Helen Clark our ex PM. has recently been appointed No. 3 at the UN.

I abhor those hypocrites, who must have known at the time of their activism that they were working on behalf of the Soviet Union. Today&#039;s green movement is a reincarnation of that discredited 1970/80&#039;s hypocrisy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in NZ our legacy of those days is our nuclear free fantasy.  Based of course on fear, and driven by left wing &#8220;peace activists&#8221; it is a blot on the image of NZ as a free thinking society.</p>
<p>The politicians who supported the Soviet led Western &#8220;peace movement&#8221;  in NZ and elsewhere are still powerful. Helen Clark our ex PM. has recently been appointed No. 3 at the UN.</p>
<p>I abhor those hypocrites, who must have known at the time of their activism that they were working on behalf of the Soviet Union. Today&#8217;s green movement is a reincarnation of that discredited 1970/80&#8242;s hypocrisy.</p>
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		<title>By: Subotai Bahadur</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188665</link>
		<dc:creator>Subotai Bahadur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Alice, moderately: &quot;the media were indeed infested with anti-American communist fellow travellers.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

The use of the past tense may be considered by some to be overly optimistic.

Subotai Bahadur]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Alice, moderately: &#8220;the media were indeed infested with anti-American communist fellow travellers.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>The use of the past tense may be considered by some to be overly optimistic.</p>
<p>Subotai Bahadur</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Amon</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188664</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Amon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 16:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=12539#comment-188664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also fully expect to hear some day that the events in Londonderry that date the start of a terrible period of Northern Ireland&#039;s history were done by a KGB assassin. 

Other revelations that have dripped out over the years:

* the russians actually did acquire some of Hitlers remains and I believe still have a bit of skull with his bullet hole in it.

* The Rosenbergs really were spies and really did pass nuclear weapons information to the KGB.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also fully expect to hear some day that the events in Londonderry that date the start of a terrible period of Northern Ireland&#8217;s history were done by a KGB assassin. </p>
<p>Other revelations that have dripped out over the years:</p>
<p>* the russians actually did acquire some of Hitlers remains and I believe still have a bit of skull with his bullet hole in it.</p>
<p>* The Rosenbergs really were spies and really did pass nuclear weapons information to the KGB.</p>
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		<title>By: John K</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2009/05/post-48/#comment-188663</link>
		<dc:creator>John K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 14:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Sadly, the net effect of this information will be zero. As has been said, the narrative has been established, and cannot be changed. Thus, the Cuban Revolution was a Good Thing, and the fact that Che Guevara was a pschopathic killer, and Fidel Castro a dictator who imprisons gays does not figure. Now, if Pinochet had imprisoned gays that would be another thing, but Guevara and Castro are men of the left, so they get a free pass.

Still interesting to know though!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, the net effect of this information will be zero. As has been said, the narrative has been established, and cannot be changed. Thus, the Cuban Revolution was a Good Thing, and the fact that Che Guevara was a pschopathic killer, and Fidel Castro a dictator who imprisons gays does not figure. Now, if Pinochet had imprisoned gays that would be another thing, but Guevara and Castro are men of the left, so they get a free pass.</p>
<p>Still interesting to know though!</p>
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