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The Irish Say No

The Irish have voted “No” to the EU Constitution, sorry, Treaty, in their national referendum.

It is turning out to be quite a week in politics.

34 comments to The Irish Say No

  • First. Good on the Irish!

    Second. I doubt it will make much difference.

    The only thing which will stop these fuckers is a good ol’ fashioned lynchin’.

  • Eamon Brennan

    When’s the next one due then.

  • RAB

    God bless all there. ;-)

    I couldn’t see a people who had faught to win Independence from England for so long, meekly handing over Ireland to Brussels, like our spineless lieing bastards are intent on doing with the UK.

    Besides the Irish are a canny people.
    They have already milked the EU cash cow for all it’s worth, and cant see any more free money turning up in the near future. That will go to the new Eastern European countries.

    Bloody good show Ireland!
    I’d love to see Gisdards face today!

    Trouble is, as Nick said above, the European Elite will not be stopped short of lynching, they are too far gone in their fantasy of a United States of Europe. They will be slipping most of the Treaty in by the back and side doors anyway.Indeed much of the process is already underway.

    Constant vigilance is still needed.
    A big spotlight and buckets of ridicule.

    The evil little bastards will never give up willingly you know.

  • So the Irish, once again, save Western Civilization (Euro Zone Division).

    “The only thing which will stop these fuckers is a good ol’ fashioned lynchin’.”

    Aye, and we’ll wave the fee, me laddie!

  • Brian

    I’ll be on the Guinness tonight then!

  • Ian B

    The only thing we can be sure of is that this won’t be allowed to prevent the Constitution being imposed. They may well just abolish the idea of treaties and start imposing the Constitution’s provisions by direct diktat, one at a time.

  • MarkS

    Brilliant. Why can’t the rest of Europe see what a invidious bunch of arrogant pigs the EU elite really are? This is a tremendous result and was the last chance to slam the brakes on the ‘project’. Can we leave now?

  • Dale Amon

    So can I then presume there will be a series of referendums until the peons give the ‘right’ answer to their betters? The nerve of these people… ;-)

  • Bjørn

    Yay! A very fine day. A shame I have to read for my exams, or I’d go get myself drunk on Guiness :)

    Ian B:

    They may well just abolish the idea of treaties and start imposing the Constitution’s provisions by direct diktat, one at a time.

    How on earth would they be able to do that? They are obligated by the treaties. Wouldn’t trying to change the structure of the EU in spite of the treaties amount to something like a declaration of war on the member states?

    Dale Amon:

    So can I then presume there will be a series of referendums until the peons give the ‘right’ answer to their betters? The nerve of these people… ;-)

    Perhaps. Or they might give the Irish some exceptions — like the current non-Euro states. Or something else. But they all seem to assume the solution cannot be to simply scrap the constitution — after all, all the other states want it…

  • Ian B

    How on earth would they be able to do that? They are obligated by the treaties. Wouldn’t trying to change the structure of the EU in spite of the treaties amount to something like a declaration of war on the member states?

    Because they don’t care about propriety, they care only about maintaining a figleaf of it where possible, and because the people who are supposedly charged with stewardship** of the member states are the same clique determined to undermine and abolish them. The poachers are the gamekeepers. The EU is the governments which the EU is trying to abolish. The governments are trying to abolish themselves, and the only people with the power to prevent that is… the governments. The only people who would be able to declare it a declaration of war are the people declaring the war, who are motivated to not declare it so. They’ve only used the Treaty route so far because it creates a threadbare, ramshackle illusion of propriety and the illusion that the states’ governments actually care about the states they govern. It is merely enabling. If that ceases to be functional, they’ll stop using that route.

    They have to plan the important conceptual handover from “we are independent states cooperating” to “we are one big nation called Theeu”. It seems to me that the Constitution was originally intended to be that moment; hence the name of it, the anthem and flag, the president, the change of nomenclature of directives to “laws” and so on. But they overestimated how far they’d dragged us proles along with it, and have had to take a step back and stick with the “we are independent states cooperating” fiction. Nonetheless their is only one direction for Europe to go in, towards Theeu, and they’re impatient at the top. So they’re probably recognising now that the treaty fantasy has outlived its usefulness and the narrative will have to switch to “we already are Theeu, now we must make Theeu deliver for all Theeu’s citizens”. So, no more treaties. The former governments comprising Theeu’s oligarchy will just do the rest by fiat. Is my guess.

    **I know, a bad phrase for a libertarian to use, can’t think of a better one off the cuff.

  • mac

    Well done, Ireland!

  • Good on ‘em, but the game is far from over. Careful how you object, too, as they’re after your blogging identities now.
    http://www.dodgybusiness.com/index.php/sam/2008/06/13/bring-it-on-losers

  • Occasional blogger

    Saw an Irish Minister on TV saying how disappointed he was in the result, but adding that “A referendum is the basis of democracy…..”. How I wish that lying turd Brown and his cronies thought the same way but then the UK ceased to be a democracy about 10 years ago, thanks to NuLab. Still, their greater dream of the European Union of Soviet Socialist States will nevertheless advance steadily. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  • WalterBoswell

    Yes hurrah for us. Thanks be too Jebuuz it was a low turn out else it might have swung the other way.

    I doubt there will be a re vote. Even though this treaty was all double Dutch to most folk a re vote would smack of an arrogance that’ll not be tolerated.

    The treaty will be broken down into smaller more digestible parts and slow fed into the EU member states over the next 5 or 10 years.

  • Sam, that link is sinister.

  • Jon Gregory

    In the words of the Labour MP Stephen Pound ‘the people have spoken, the bastards’

  • newbold

    Gotta love Ireland.

  • Sam Duncan

    A marvelous kick up the backside to The Construction. But sadly that’s all it is. It won’t actually mean anything.

    Torches and pitchforks at the Berlaymont, anyone?

  • Three cheers and a hoisted pint for the Irish!

    Anyone who hands you a constitution that won’t fit into 3 pages of single-spaced 12 point is trying to sell you something you don’t really want to buy.

  • Paul Marks

    Congratulations to the Irish people – and my thanks to them.

    We must not say “the elite will take the power anyway” – not if we fight them they wont.

    They are not supermen, they put their pants on one leg at a time.

  • Three more cheers to our Gaelic brethren!

    Sláinte!!!!

    You would think this news would make even Ian B happy….

    Nnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh……

  • Balkenende the Dutch PM has already said this will not stop him from ratifying the treaty of Lisbon.

    We can vote what we like the politician we do as he pleases.

    So stop partying.

  • Paul Marks

    Stop partying (at least after this weekend) yes Hawk.

    But politicians can NOT do as they please – not if the people will not let them.

    I suffer from the “Black Dog” of depression as much as the next man (perhaps more than the next man), but we must not let the idea of “they are so powerful, we can do nothing to stop them in the end” dominate us – it is a cop out.

  • CFM

    ‘Twas a time we had a British bureaucrat (Bb) problem here in the U.S. We do not have this particular problem today.

    Our solution to the Bb problem may be of assistance.

    Unfortunately, this method has not been applied to our own Machiavellian kleptocrats. Give it a try. Let us know how it works out.

  • NUB

    What is being done now by the EU is even worse than the failed constitution, it basically includes the tools of EU power over the EU citizens without any sort of ethos or ideal or code comparable to something like “The United States of Europe”. While most people here are certainly sceptical towards any government, the intended EU might turn out to become the most evil form of government ever invented, a great power that is existing apart from people and apart from ideals, being one big opportunistic bureaucratic monster serving only the current interests of the politicians in power. That would be the pessimistic perspective. However, there is no ground for something like the US of Europe now and won’t be for a long time, beginning with the fact that the member countries, culture, tradition, history are way to different and national approaches are not gone for a long time or they aren’t gone at all.

  • Gregory

    “So… after getting rid of one elite class (the former royals and assorted aristocrats)… you want us now to install another elite class (eurocrats/kleptocrats)?

    BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! (No thanks, we’re Irish)”

    Good for Ireland! Always thought they’d be good for something other than Guiness. And St Paddy (but he was English).

    But seriously, how did you guys get yourself into such a mess? Thank goodness ASEAN is nowhere near such a stupid state of affairs.

  • Midwesterner

    How soon before these politicians who are so desperately eager to offer their souls to the government in Brussels, will, once there and with the same desperate self abdignation, offer the power held in Brussels to a demagogue? Not that any nations in Europe have ever elevated demagogues, but just say . . . What if a ‘good leader’ came along?

  • Paul Marks wrote:

    we must not let the idea of “they are so powerful, we can do nothing to stop them in the end” dominate us – it is a cop out.

    Of course I did not mean ‘they are so powerful,’. I meant stop partying and keep your eye on the bastards so we can stop them. What would be the use of commenting if I beleived nothing could be done?

  • Paul Marks wrote:

    we must not let the idea of “they are so powerful, we can do nothing to stop them in the end” dominate us – it is a cop out.

    Of course I did not mean ‘they are so powerful,’. I meant stop partying and keep your eye on the bastards so we can stop them. What would be the use of commenting if I believed nothing could be done?

  • Hawk, still, we should be allowed to party just a little bit, otherwise it is all just too damn depressing…

  • Hawk, still, we should be allowed to party just a little bit, otherwise it is all just too damn depressing…

    Well, I have to agree with you on that. :-)

  • Shay Doyle

    I voted no to this treaty for a myriad of reasons, one of which was the lack of democracy being displayed by the other member states Governments in denying their own citizens a voice in the process. I was also uncomfortable with the wording of the treaty itself, in that it was basically incomprehensible to the average citizen. There will not be another attempt to get this treaty passed in Ireland as a second rejection would in all likelyhood spell the end for Brian Cowen’s premiership and force him from office.

    The ball as they say, is in the hands of the EU leadership now, will they accept the will of the people and adhere to their own rulebook and abandon this treaty? Or will they cement the widely held view of European citizens that Eurocrats don’t really care for democracy and will do whatever they like in the furtherance of their own agenda.

    Before the ink was even dry on the ballot paper, Commission President Barasso said that the ratification process would continue, a clear indication that the will of the Irish people is to be ignored. Gordon Brown has expressed the same view with regard to Britain. How can a people who have been independent for 900 years and fought two World wars to defend their independence accept that? Why have the British people allowed him to do this? The once proud British lion I’m afraid has turned in to the meekest of lambs.

    Some say that Ireland will be punished for its decision to reject this treaty; well they may be right, but I’d rather be poor and free and than live, for a while, on thirty pieces of silver.