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	<title>Comments on: Sometimes the real nature of protectionism comes through</title>
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	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Alisa</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143426</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 06:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Well, you have to take your wine very seriously indeed if you are willing to blow people up over it.&lt;/em&gt;

Not to play the devil&#039;s advocate, but it is their livelihood they are taking seriously, not their wine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Well, you have to take your wine very seriously indeed if you are willing to blow people up over it.</em></p>
<p>Not to play the devil&#8217;s advocate, but it is their livelihood they are taking seriously, not their wine.</p>
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		<title>By: HokiePundit</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143425</link>
		<dc:creator>HokiePundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 00:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re anywhere near the East Coast of the USA, might I suggest Chateau Morrisette wines?  Our Dog Blue, Black Dog, and Blushing Dog are all fantatically good table wines that cost about $10 and can be brought at Kroger.  

I went on a tour and winetasting there and they explained that American wines tended to be very consistent year-to-year compared with European wines.  I only found California wines while I was in London but Virginia has a very nice growing climate as well, especially for Riesling grapes.

Also, try Charles Shaw Chardonnay (a California wine) if there&#039;s a Trader Joe&#039;s near you.  It&#039;s cheap and it&#039;s really good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re anywhere near the East Coast of the USA, might I suggest Chateau Morrisette wines?  Our Dog Blue, Black Dog, and Blushing Dog are all fantatically good table wines that cost about $10 and can be brought at Kroger.  </p>
<p>I went on a tour and winetasting there and they explained that American wines tended to be very consistent year-to-year compared with European wines.  I only found California wines while I was in London but Virginia has a very nice growing climate as well, especially for Riesling grapes.</p>
<p>Also, try Charles Shaw Chardonnay (a California wine) if there&#8217;s a Trader Joe&#8217;s near you.  It&#8217;s cheap and it&#8217;s really good.</p>
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		<title>By: nemo paradise</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143424</link>
		<dc:creator>nemo paradise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 19:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, you have to take your wine very seriously indeed if you are willing to blow people up over it.  But in a world where Palestinian parents photograph their toddlers dressed in suicide-bomber belts, maybe it&#039;s not so outrageous after all.

America has its share of insane subsidies, sugar being perhaps the most obvious.  This is also fitting, given our national affection for nutritionless calories.  But we don&#039;t threaten to blow up a Safeway that sells Orangina because it threatens Coke.

Maybe the French should consider just how few indiginities are actually foisted upon them.  Perhaps the U.S. should announce that, as a gesture of humanitarian concern, it will donate 100 tons of Velveeta and 3000 cartons of Saltines to the unemployed North African inhabitants of various notorious French urban ghettos.  And, of course, some Coke.

 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you have to take your wine very seriously indeed if you are willing to blow people up over it.  But in a world where Palestinian parents photograph their toddlers dressed in suicide-bomber belts, maybe it&#8217;s not so outrageous after all.</p>
<p>America has its share of insane subsidies, sugar being perhaps the most obvious.  This is also fitting, given our national affection for nutritionless calories.  But we don&#8217;t threaten to blow up a Safeway that sells Orangina because it threatens Coke.</p>
<p>Maybe the French should consider just how few indiginities are actually foisted upon them.  Perhaps the U.S. should announce that, as a gesture of humanitarian concern, it will donate 100 tons of Velveeta and 3000 cartons of Saltines to the unemployed North African inhabitants of various notorious French urban ghettos.  And, of course, some Coke.</p>
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		<title>By: Wild Pegasus</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143423</link>
		<dc:creator>Wild Pegasus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 18:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m amazed no one&#039;s mentioned this yet.  The ridiculous subsidies to French wine are exactly why Australia, New Zealand, California, and various other places can produce wine that is better.  When your income is guaranteed by the state, your quality doesn&#039;t have to count for much.  OTOH, where vineyard keeping is much more market-oriented, the best wine rises to the top.  France can only save its wine industry by letting it compete on its own merits.

- Josh, more of a beer guy, personally]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m amazed no one&#8217;s mentioned this yet.  The ridiculous subsidies to French wine are exactly why Australia, New Zealand, California, and various other places can produce wine that is better.  When your income is guaranteed by the state, your quality doesn&#8217;t have to count for much.  OTOH, where vineyard keeping is much more market-oriented, the best wine rises to the top.  France can only save its wine industry by letting it compete on its own merits.</p>
<p>- Josh, more of a beer guy, personally</p>
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		<title>By: Sunfish</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143422</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 14:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not really a wine guy. I&#039;m a beer geek and brew my own, but not much for wine. 

But the last time I was in Australia, there were some Aussie reds that changed my mind, they were that good. It&#039;s almost like what Melissa Etheridge said about one how guy was so cool he almost turned her straight. 

It was so good, I forgave Australia for allowing Foster&#039;s to be made and exported. It was so good, I got over not being able to get baseball on the TV. It was so good, I almost sent the New South Wales police my CV.

I wish I could remember what it was, but it got a little drunk out that night.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not really a wine guy. I&#8217;m a beer geek and brew my own, but not much for wine. </p>
<p>But the last time I was in Australia, there were some Aussie reds that changed my mind, they were that good. It&#8217;s almost like what Melissa Etheridge said about one how guy was so cool he almost turned her straight. </p>
<p>It was so good, I forgave Australia for allowing Foster&#8217;s to be made and exported. It was so good, I got over not being able to get baseball on the TV. It was so good, I almost sent the New South Wales police my CV.</p>
<p>I wish I could remember what it was, but it got a little drunk out that night.</p>
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		<title>By: RAB</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143421</link>
		<dc:creator>RAB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 14:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree. We had a very decent Rioja at dinner last night.
Tuscan wines are good too.
We stayed on an Agricola, which is a working vinyard with apartments and a pool, within spitting distance of San Gimignano, about 4 years ago. 
We used to buy a couple of bottles a day off the owners, and even back then their cheapest white , wholesale, was 4 euros a bottle.
Cracking stuff red and white.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. We had a very decent Rioja at dinner last night.<br />
Tuscan wines are good too.<br />
We stayed on an Agricola, which is a working vinyard with apartments and a pool, within spitting distance of San Gimignano, about 4 years ago.<br />
We used to buy a couple of bottles a day off the owners, and even back then their cheapest white , wholesale, was 4 euros a bottle.<br />
Cracking stuff red and white.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143420</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 14:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;a friend served an Argentine red at a dinner over the weekend that was quite good&lt;/em&gt;

Most South American wines I&#039;ve had are great (mostly from Peru, but have had others as well).

I&#039;ve had some great Australians as well.

And I agree that between $7 and $40 it&#039;s all hit and miss, so you might as well go with the cheaper stuff you like versus assuming the mid range stuff must be better.

And as for protectionism, it merely hurts the lowest class most. Protectionism (of course) stunts trade, and it is global trade that has brought lowcost goods to the &quot;masses&quot;. Perhaps not true for wine if France if it subsidized (then of course paid via tax) but crushing trade is never good over all for those who have the least. Protectionism is for the elite to remain so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>a friend served an Argentine red at a dinner over the weekend that was quite good</em></p>
<p>Most South American wines I&#8217;ve had are great (mostly from Peru, but have had others as well).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had some great Australians as well.</p>
<p>And I agree that between $7 and $40 it&#8217;s all hit and miss, so you might as well go with the cheaper stuff you like versus assuming the mid range stuff must be better.</p>
<p>And as for protectionism, it merely hurts the lowest class most. Protectionism (of course) stunts trade, and it is global trade that has brought lowcost goods to the &#8220;masses&#8221;. Perhaps not true for wine if France if it subsidized (then of course paid via tax) but crushing trade is never good over all for those who have the least. Protectionism is for the elite to remain so.</p>
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		<title>By: Perry de Havilland</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143419</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry de Havilland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 14:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In terms of bang-for-the-buck and consistency, Spanish wines take quite some beating.  Nothing beats a nice Rioja or Navarre in my opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of bang-for-the-buck and consistency, Spanish wines take quite some beating.  Nothing beats a nice Rioja or Navarre in my opinion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: a.sommer</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143418</link>
		<dc:creator>a.sommer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 13:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I am happy to drink Californian and Aussie wines, a friend served an Argentine red at a dinner over the weekend that was quite good...

French wine... well, the good stuff is generally good, but IMExperience, in the midrange you&#039;re better off picking a californian. Re the low end,  if it&#039;s cheap and it&#039;s french, stay away.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am happy to drink Californian and Aussie wines, a friend served an Argentine red at a dinner over the weekend that was quite good&#8230;</p>
<p>French wine&#8230; well, the good stuff is generally good, but IMExperience, in the midrange you&#8217;re better off picking a californian. Re the low end,  if it&#8217;s cheap and it&#8217;s french, stay away.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Hoult</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143417</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Hoult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 11:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick, yes that&#039;s exactly right.  Lots of what used to be pastoral farming has turned into vinyards and kiwifruit orchards and avocados and cherries and flowers and all sorts of other things.  Much of the latter couple of things mentioned are in Tokyo retail shops fetching huge prices within 18 hours of being picked.  To do that they have to be absolutely top quality.

Much to everyone&#039;s surprise, it has turned out that dairy farming, done intelligently, is extremely profitable.  I&#039;d have been a lot better off financially if I&#039;d taken over my parents&#039; dairy farm than I am as a computer programmer.  Whole provinces that had been producing sheep or beef or even wheat now have irrigation systems and small paddocks and milking sheds dotted all over them.  Not only that, but hundreds of young NZ dairy farmers have not been able to find farms in NZ and have gone to Australia -- mostly around Melbourne and Adelaide -- and turned sheep and beef farms there into very profitable dairy farms.

On the other hand, NZ seems to be a good place to do software development as well.  There are so many software and internet startups here in Wellington that some people are calling the place Silicon Welly.  If you look at Paul Graham&#039;s essay on what it would take to create a sucessful Silicon Valley elsewhere Wellington hit&#039;s nearly every point.  The biggest obstacle has been the lack of venture capital, but with the big deals for TradeMe (who beat eBay out of NZ) and a couple of others there are people around who are seeding a whole raft of next generation businesses.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, yes that&#8217;s exactly right.  Lots of what used to be pastoral farming has turned into vinyards and kiwifruit orchards and avocados and cherries and flowers and all sorts of other things.  Much of the latter couple of things mentioned are in Tokyo retail shops fetching huge prices within 18 hours of being picked.  To do that they have to be absolutely top quality.</p>
<p>Much to everyone&#8217;s surprise, it has turned out that dairy farming, done intelligently, is extremely profitable.  I&#8217;d have been a lot better off financially if I&#8217;d taken over my parents&#8217; dairy farm than I am as a computer programmer.  Whole provinces that had been producing sheep or beef or even wheat now have irrigation systems and small paddocks and milking sheds dotted all over them.  Not only that, but hundreds of young NZ dairy farmers have not been able to find farms in NZ and have gone to Australia &#8212; mostly around Melbourne and Adelaide &#8212; and turned sheep and beef farms there into very profitable dairy farms.</p>
<p>On the other hand, NZ seems to be a good place to do software development as well.  There are so many software and internet startups here in Wellington that some people are calling the place Silicon Welly.  If you look at Paul Graham&#8217;s essay on what it would take to create a sucessful Silicon Valley elsewhere Wellington hit&#8217;s nearly every point.  The biggest obstacle has been the lack of venture capital, but with the big deals for TradeMe (who beat eBay out of NZ) and a couple of others there are people around who are seeding a whole raft of next generation businesses.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick M</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143416</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 09:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[CL,
I get IDed in the the USA. I&#039;m 33 but apparently look younger. Never happens in Europe. I once bought a bottle of wine in a Krogers in Atlanta and I had to flash my passport. The check-out lady noticed the issuing office was Liverpool and asked me if I knew the Beatles! I probably should&#039;ve spun some yarn about living just up the road from Ringo Starr&#039;s mum or something but I just couldn&#039;t be arsed. 

Bruce,
That&#039;s a story that should be more widely told. It is absolutely relevant because my understanding is that part of the reason us Brits can enjoy so much top-notch plonk from NZ is that your farmers had to move into high value products such as wine. Kiwi fruit I can take or leave frankly but a crisp NZ white is a true pleasure. But can you imagine the French farmers if they were told that agricultural subsidies were going to be phased out. They&#039;d have Sarkozy&#039;s head on a pike. His head if he was lucky. 

Here&#039;s a true story from Lancashire. It was on the local news. Dairy farming uses a lot of water. It&#039;s a major expense so a lot of dairy farmers have their own source. On this particular farm they realised they could get more for bottling their spring water than selling the milk from the cows. There is something clearly dementedly wrong with the UK agriculture sector when something like this is the case. It&#039;s almost as though Toyota discovered there was more profit in selling lumps of steel than Corollas or Intel decided to wholesale sand and copper... It&#039;s nucking futz!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CL,<br />
I get IDed in the the USA. I&#8217;m 33 but apparently look younger. Never happens in Europe. I once bought a bottle of wine in a Krogers in Atlanta and I had to flash my passport. The check-out lady noticed the issuing office was Liverpool and asked me if I knew the Beatles! I probably should&#8217;ve spun some yarn about living just up the road from Ringo Starr&#8217;s mum or something but I just couldn&#8217;t be arsed. </p>
<p>Bruce,<br />
That&#8217;s a story that should be more widely told. It is absolutely relevant because my understanding is that part of the reason us Brits can enjoy so much top-notch plonk from NZ is that your farmers had to move into high value products such as wine. Kiwi fruit I can take or leave frankly but a crisp NZ white is a true pleasure. But can you imagine the French farmers if they were told that agricultural subsidies were going to be phased out. They&#8217;d have Sarkozy&#8217;s head on a pike. His head if he was lucky. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a true story from Lancashire. It was on the local news. Dairy farming uses a lot of water. It&#8217;s a major expense so a lot of dairy farmers have their own source. On this particular farm they realised they could get more for bottling their spring water than selling the milk from the cows. There is something clearly dementedly wrong with the UK agriculture sector when something like this is the case. It&#8217;s almost as though Toyota discovered there was more profit in selling lumps of steel than Corollas or Intel decided to wholesale sand and copper&#8230; It&#8217;s nucking futz!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkE</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2007/05/sometimes-the-r/#comment-143415</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 09:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=10380#comment-143415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My nephew is very nostaligic for the time he lived in Spain, so whenever I visit him at his present home in Paris I try to take a bottle or two of decent Rioja.  This satisfies his nostalgia, and gives me the great satisfaction of importing wine to france (it is available in Paris, if you know where to look, and are willing to pay, but where&#039;s the fun in that?).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My nephew is very nostaligic for the time he lived in Spain, so whenever I visit him at his present home in Paris I try to take a bottle or two of decent Rioja.  This satisfies his nostalgia, and gives me the great satisfaction of importing wine to france (it is available in Paris, if you know where to look, and are willing to pay, but where&#8217;s the fun in that?).</p>
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