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	<title>Comments on: The lessons the world must learn from New York&#8217;s Plibble crisis</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Kim du Toit</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125969</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim du Toit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125969</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...and this, children, is what you get when you allow an unrepentant Marxist like Paul Sarbanes to sponsor laws having to do with business.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and this, children, is what you get when you allow an unrepentant Marxist like Paul Sarbanes to sponsor laws having to do with business.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125968</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been living the hell of both a) Sarbanes-Oxley and b) dealing with &quot;advisors&quot; as part of an acquisition process.  Consultants are worth pennies on the dollar for what you pay.  Anyone who says otherwise is probably a) a consultant b) never worked with consultants or c) has actually had a good experience with consultants (1 in 10 chance?  Maybe).  

Anyway, Sarbox was exactly what any libertarian-minded accountant would have predicted back when Andersen fell: more government regulation that does more harm than good but is a BOON for accountants - and particularly, auditors (Big and small).  Whaddayaknow?  That&#039;s exactly what happened.  Now, audit firms - and particularly big four audit firms (like Deloitte and Ernst &amp; Young) - actually charge more hours, make FEWER conclusions (b/c now the onus is supposed to be completely on the company to figure everything out without any help from those they&#039;re paying $200+ an hour), and generally don&#039;t work nearly as hard because the client has to all but diagram the paper trail for every g-d&#039;ed journal entry they make.  Trust me.  It&#039;s a nightmare (one I&#039;m living).  The system is worse off now because accountants who are worth a damn are saying &quot;I&#039;m not going to put up with this bulls--t&quot; and finding better uses of their time.  That is, unless they&#039;re partners at these big firms making millions a year (the average salary for Ernst &amp; Young&#039;s 2,000 partners PRE-Sarbox was a cool half-million.  Imagine what it is now - six years later).

Anyway, it&#039;s no surprise what is happening and &quot;plibbles&quot; is as good a word for it as any.  The reality is that the corporate paradigm is f--ked by nature of the gross disconnect between principle and agent.  And no amount of regulation can make that risk go away, so why keep trying??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been living the hell of both a) Sarbanes-Oxley and b) dealing with &#8220;advisors&#8221; as part of an acquisition process.  Consultants are worth pennies on the dollar for what you pay.  Anyone who says otherwise is probably a) a consultant b) never worked with consultants or c) has actually had a good experience with consultants (1 in 10 chance?  Maybe).  </p>
<p>Anyway, Sarbox was exactly what any libertarian-minded accountant would have predicted back when Andersen fell: more government regulation that does more harm than good but is a BOON for accountants &#8211; and particularly, auditors (Big and small).  Whaddayaknow?  That&#8217;s exactly what happened.  Now, audit firms &#8211; and particularly big four audit firms (like Deloitte and Ernst &#038; Young) &#8211; actually charge more hours, make FEWER conclusions (b/c now the onus is supposed to be completely on the company to figure everything out without any help from those they&#8217;re paying $200+ an hour), and generally don&#8217;t work nearly as hard because the client has to all but diagram the paper trail for every g-d&#8217;ed journal entry they make.  Trust me.  It&#8217;s a nightmare (one I&#8217;m living).  The system is worse off now because accountants who are worth a damn are saying &#8220;I&#8217;m not going to put up with this bulls&#8211;t&#8221; and finding better uses of their time.  That is, unless they&#8217;re partners at these big firms making millions a year (the average salary for Ernst &#038; Young&#8217;s 2,000 partners PRE-Sarbox was a cool half-million.  Imagine what it is now &#8211; six years later).</p>
<p>Anyway, it&#8217;s no surprise what is happening and &#8220;plibbles&#8221; is as good a word for it as any.  The reality is that the corporate paradigm is f&#8211;ked by nature of the gross disconnect between principle and agent.  And no amount of regulation can make that risk go away, so why keep trying??</p>
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		<title>By: furriskey</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125967</link>
		<dc:creator>furriskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any management that needs to employ management consultants is recognising that management is not its core competence. Stop touting for business, Mr Timms.
SOX ( as victims have it) applies globally not just in the USA, and adds force, as if force were needed, to Auberon Waugh&#039;s (pbuh) wise counsel never to enter into any form of business relationship whatsoever with any corporation, body or individual that has any connection, however remote or intangible, with that otherwise great nation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any management that needs to employ management consultants is recognising that management is not its core competence. Stop touting for business, Mr Timms.<br />
SOX ( as victims have it) applies globally not just in the USA, and adds force, as if force were needed, to Auberon Waugh&#8217;s (pbuh) wise counsel never to enter into any form of business relationship whatsoever with any corporation, body or individual that has any connection, however remote or intangible, with that otherwise great nation.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Lorrey</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125966</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Lorrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike James,
One word off: &quot;Initial Public Offering&quot;, i.e. the first time a private corporation (or a newly privatized corporation) initially offers stock for sale to the general public.

However, such an event is a slight misnomer, for the simple reason that stock brokerages generally pre-subscribe for all of the shares in an IPO (if it is a company that is worth the asking price or more), reserving them for their biggest clients, who then themselves resell the stock at a large markup on the open market, which the issuing company never sees. This is one of the dirty little secrets of the market that encourages the perpetuation of the &quot;the rich are getting richer&quot; anti-capital meme.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike James,<br />
One word off: &#8220;Initial Public Offering&#8221;, i.e. the first time a private corporation (or a newly privatized corporation) initially offers stock for sale to the general public.</p>
<p>However, such an event is a slight misnomer, for the simple reason that stock brokerages generally pre-subscribe for all of the shares in an IPO (if it is a company that is worth the asking price or more), reserving them for their biggest clients, who then themselves resell the stock at a large markup on the open market, which the issuing company never sees. This is one of the dirty little secrets of the market that encourages the perpetuation of the &#8220;the rich are getting richer&#8221; anti-capital meme.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Lorrey</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125965</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Lorrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Natalie,
Excellent piece. Given your predeliction for plibblallia, I would point you to the classic South Park episode &quot;Starvin&#039; Marvin In Space&quot;, where you&#039;ll find that any noun is perfectly replaceable by the word &quot;marklar&quot;. Should be right up your marklar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natalie,<br />
Excellent piece. Given your predeliction for plibblallia, I would point you to the classic South Park episode &#8220;Starvin&#8217; Marvin In Space&#8221;, where you&#8217;ll find that any noun is perfectly replaceable by the word &#8220;marklar&#8221;. Should be right up your marklar.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike James</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125964</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I P O = Initial Product Offering...or somesuch... 
 
And that&#039;s about the limit of any useful knowledge I might offer...

Hey! Smoke is rising from my head! 

Oh, god! I&#039;ve burned out my brain, trying to help Mrs. Solent!

Oh! It hurts---the pain! THE PAIN!!!

AAUUURghgUURHRHGU..1.1....curse you natilie solent....you made my brain hurt.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I P O = Initial Product Offering&#8230;or somesuch&#8230; </p>
<p>And that&#8217;s about the limit of any useful knowledge I might offer&#8230;</p>
<p>Hey! Smoke is rising from my head! </p>
<p>Oh, god! I&#8217;ve burned out my brain, trying to help Mrs. Solent!</p>
<p>Oh! It hurts&#8212;the pain! THE PAIN!!!</p>
<p>AAUUURghgUURHRHGU..1.1&#8230;.curse you natilie solent&#8230;.you made my brain hurt&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125963</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bloomberg just doesn&#039;t get it.  The article talks about the possibility of lobbying against the regulations.  Where does he think that&#039;ll get him?  No, the appropriate response would be to enter into talks with British regulators to &quot;standardize&quot; their regulations so as to be more &quot;consistent&quot;, thus removing a &quot;barrier&quot; to choosing the best location for an IPO, and creating more &quot;opportunities&quot; for new businesses to obtain financing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bloomberg just doesn&#8217;t get it.  The article talks about the possibility of lobbying against the regulations.  Where does he think that&#8217;ll get him?  No, the appropriate response would be to enter into talks with British regulators to &#8220;standardize&#8221; their regulations so as to be more &#8220;consistent&#8221;, thus removing a &#8220;barrier&#8221; to choosing the best location for an IPO, and creating more &#8220;opportunities&#8221; for new businesses to obtain financing.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125962</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125962</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Twogbots sound more fun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twogbots sound more fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Timms</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125961</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Timms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolute rubbish.  We meet many successful businessmen who understand their marketplace very well but lack knowledge about marketing, administration, margin control, credit control....No man knows everything and no business is perfect.  The right consultant, for the right issue, at the right time is useful for most businesses and usually makes financial sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolute rubbish.  We meet many successful businessmen who understand their marketplace very well but lack knowledge about marketing, administration, margin control, credit control&#8230;.No man knows everything and no business is perfect.  The right consultant, for the right issue, at the right time is useful for most businesses and usually makes financial sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125960</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you have to bring in outside consultants then you don&#039;t understand you own business and would be advised to file for bankruptcy straight away.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have to bring in outside consultants then you don&#8217;t understand you own business and would be advised to file for bankruptcy straight away.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125959</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is like the eurobond thing - in the post World War II period regulations in certain parts of financial services were less extreme in some parts of Europe (such as London) than in the United States, so raising money for certain forms of investment migrated out of the United States.

Recent regulations (such S.O. as mentioned above) have done this again - so business that might have been done in New York is being done overseas. However, there are more regulations in Europe these days (with such things as the various financial services regulations and the new E.U. regulations) so business may not stay in the main European cities.

Even Switzerland has been pushed towards &quot;insider trading&quot; and &quot;antitrust&quot; regulations.

As for Mayor Bloomberg - his idea that paying for consultants can solve the problem is yet more evidence that being a good businessman does not make someone any good as a Mayor (or other political office) - the regulations need to be repealed (and tort law - which allows people to sue without there being any real malpractice - should be reformed).

Mayor Bloomberg&#039;s first action was to massively increase tax on cigarettes - thus showing that he knew nothing about political economy (whatever he may know about the separate matter of running an individual business), he (without knowing it) boosted organized crime (by making their product cheaper compared with the legal product).

As for corporations and companies going private again: Americans tend to be deeply paranoid about corporations (every Hollywood film, ironically films made by corporations, and television show, ditto, tells them that corporations are the root of all evil) - contrary to what most Americans believe, the American government (at Federal and State level) taxes and regulates corporations more than most Western governments do.

&quot;But corporations capture the regulators&quot; - sometimes in the early stage yes. The corporations use the government regulations to sit on potential competitors - but over time the regulations increase and increase so that (in the end) even corporate special interests lose by them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is like the eurobond thing &#8211; in the post World War II period regulations in certain parts of financial services were less extreme in some parts of Europe (such as London) than in the United States, so raising money for certain forms of investment migrated out of the United States.</p>
<p>Recent regulations (such S.O. as mentioned above) have done this again &#8211; so business that might have been done in New York is being done overseas. However, there are more regulations in Europe these days (with such things as the various financial services regulations and the new E.U. regulations) so business may not stay in the main European cities.</p>
<p>Even Switzerland has been pushed towards &#8220;insider trading&#8221; and &#8220;antitrust&#8221; regulations.</p>
<p>As for Mayor Bloomberg &#8211; his idea that paying for consultants can solve the problem is yet more evidence that being a good businessman does not make someone any good as a Mayor (or other political office) &#8211; the regulations need to be repealed (and tort law &#8211; which allows people to sue without there being any real malpractice &#8211; should be reformed).</p>
<p>Mayor Bloomberg&#8217;s first action was to massively increase tax on cigarettes &#8211; thus showing that he knew nothing about political economy (whatever he may know about the separate matter of running an individual business), he (without knowing it) boosted organized crime (by making their product cheaper compared with the legal product).</p>
<p>As for corporations and companies going private again: Americans tend to be deeply paranoid about corporations (every Hollywood film, ironically films made by corporations, and television show, ditto, tells them that corporations are the root of all evil) &#8211; contrary to what most Americans believe, the American government (at Federal and State level) taxes and regulates corporations more than most Western governments do.</p>
<p>&#8220;But corporations capture the regulators&#8221; &#8211; sometimes in the early stage yes. The corporations use the government regulations to sit on potential competitors &#8211; but over time the regulations increase and increase so that (in the end) even corporate special interests lose by them.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jennings</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2006/09/what-new-yorks/#comment-125958</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jennings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=9500#comment-125958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 1984 AT&amp;T hired McKinsey to investigate whether they should enter this new cellular phone business. McKinsey advised AT&amp;T that there would be less than a million such phones in use worldwide by 2000, and AT&amp;T therefore did not enter the market. (They got in later by acquiring McCaw Cellular). On that occasion McKinsey were only out by about 750 million units. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1984 AT&#038;T hired McKinsey to investigate whether they should enter this new cellular phone business. McKinsey advised AT&#038;T that there would be less than a million such phones in use worldwide by 2000, and AT&#038;T therefore did not enter the market. (They got in later by acquiring McCaw Cellular). On that occasion McKinsey were only out by about 750 million units. </p>
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