Comments on: Samizdata quote of the day

By: anthea

anthea — Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:08:55 +0000

Verity

May I claim your hand in civil uniom?

By: A.Shah

A.Shah — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:05:12 +0000

While Bush has definitely been more profligate than I would like, I think this is more a case of prioritization than anything else. He has had to make concessions on some issues to secure support on others, which is nothing new. I don't like it much, but politics is like that.

What 'politics as usual' has produced in America.

By: Verity

Verity — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:56:32 +0000

Jacob – You’ve hit the nail on the head. Sullivan wants to change the entire basis of society to suit himself. This is egocentric to the point of lunacy. But I think this is what has put me off him – the intensity and the focus is just terribly off-putting. And I do think it has affected his writing, which used to be brilliant.

I am very pro civil unions and think it’s only just that gay people not be denied legal rights the rest of us enjoy. There is no reason to demand more, unless one has a destructive, resentful, bitter agenda.

By: Johnathan Pearce

Johnathan Pearce — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:52:48 +0000

I did not want this thread to turn into some flamewar about what Sullivan thinks about gay marriage, although I happen to think that marriage should be of no concern of the State at all, but just an expression of the agreement by two adults to make a binding commitment to one another, be able to sign contracts, etc. If one thinks about it, anything that encourages adults to make binding agreements born out of love and commitment is surely good for civil society, rather than destructive, but that is another topic of its own.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:30:02 +0000

“So any atheists who get married would be stealing, disfiguring and corrupting the idea …”

No. Any atheist getting married would compromise and adopt the religious idea. Religious people are only too happy about it as long as it is a regular marriage (i.e. not gay). Compromise is no dirty word, as long as you don’t commit murder.

“..there are churches that will perform marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples…”
There are churches or sects who perform all kind of bizarre rituals. Gay marriage is anathema to all normal religions.

Sullivan strongly and fervently pushes for gay MARRIAGE. Not gay unions, not civil unions – MARRIAGE.
The issue is not his private style of life, it’s an attempt to push that on everybody, to change society, via the state’s power of legislation. To hijack the concept and the institution.

By: Verity

Verity — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:41:33 +0000

Millard Foolmore – you seem to have missed the meaning of the war in Iraq.

By: Millard Foolmore

Millard Foolmore — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:34:52 +0000

rosignol:

“While Bush has definitely been more profligate than I would like, I think this is more a case of prioritization than anything else. He has had to make concessions on some issues to secure support on others”

Yeah, he has to bust the budget so he can go on fighting a war he can’t win.

By: michael farris

michael farris — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:03:03 +0000

Also Jacob, there are churches that will perform marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples. So that ironically in many states its entirely possible for such couples to obtain a religious wedding ceremony (with no legal standing) but not civil recognition.

In the US as far as I know, only civil marriage has any legal recognition, a religious wedding has no legal force until the person who performed the ceremony fills out the state-mandated paperwork.

By: michael farris

michael farris — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:59:29 +0000

Jacob, if you’re not religious then you must not be married or plan on marrying.

I’d really like to be a fly on the wall when you explain your unconventional views on the subject to a (potential or existing) girlfriend. Or maybe not, there would be the danger of being hit by something that she throws at your head ….

By: Radical Sceptic

Radical Sceptic — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:57:42 +0000

Libertarians don’t clamor for a government official seal of approval for their choices.

So you would insist that all heterosexual libertarians should never accept a government seal of approval for their choices by getting married?

Marriage is an idea that belongs to the religions.

So any atheists who get married would be stealing, disfiguring and corrupting the idea and you would have no sympathy for such unions?

I’m not religious myself

Then I take it you’re not married?

By: Johnathan Pearce

Johnathan Pearce — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:53:24 +0000

Marriage is an idea that belongs to the religions. The gay’s attempt to steal it, disfigure it, corrupt it – is something I have no sympathy for , though I’m not religious myself.

Yes indeed, but I don’t think Sullivan would actually disagree with the idea the the government should get out of the business of regulating what is known as marriage. He’d probably agree that it should be of no business but that of the parties concerned.

Anyway, I’m done here.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:41:08 +0000

“….but then I am a libertarian who thinks people should be able to live their lives as they want, including deciding how they want to form their lifelong partnerships.”

Me too.

But that’s not the issue! Libertarians don’t clamor for a government official seal of approval for their choices.

Marriage is an idea that belongs to the religions. The gay’s attempt to steal it, disfigure it, corrupt it – is something I have no sympathy for , though I’m not religious myself.