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Double standards and disorder in Sydney

I have not commented on the recent riots in Sydney, which have been reported in the global media, for the reason that the scale and size of them are not particularly great. They certainly have been overblown in the media, both in Australia and overseas.

Of course, that is not to detract from the nastiness of them for the victims. People have been beaten, stabbed, and had their property vandalised in a deeply unpleasant way. But compared to what happened in Paris, these disturbances are very small beer.

However they are also very different to the Paris riots because the causes of them are totally different. In Paris, people were rioting because of the perceived heavy handedness of the French state and discrimination issues. There may or may not have been an Islamic element as well.

The Sydney disturbances were nothing of the sort. They were started by outraged ‘surfers’ and beach bums who were incited by populist media types, and also by some deeply unpleasant racist thugs. They were continued by the people that they were protesting about- the gangs of thugs who have been causing a constant law and order issue for Sydney residents for several years now.

These gangs have been allowed to ‘run amok’ because, not to put too fine a point on it, they are Lebanese Muslims. The nominally ‘centre left’ ALP state government has been too terrified of being accused of racism to uphold the rule of law. This leads to massive double standards in the enforcement of justice, which has been a feature of policing in Sydney.

There have been two developments in consequence to these riots, both of which are deeply depressing. The first is that the NSW State government is using the riots to claim for itself massive increases in police powers in order to ‘deal’ with the situation. Those who have seen the NSW police force in action over a long period are unlikely to have confidence that these powers will not be abused.

Secondly, the Australian media has indulged itself in a veritable orgy of self-flagellation about race relations in Australia and ‘multiculturalism’. The few blogs willing to point out the law enforcement issues involved have been ignored.

Equality before the law is supposed to be a core principle of any government that fancies itself to be democratic. Yet in Australia, no one wants to talk about it. Draw your own conclusions.

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37 comments to Double standards and disorder in Sydney

  • I’m pleased to see that some Aussies have decided to fight back against the Islamic stain on their land…and sad for you all that your mass media is as contemptible as is ours in America.

    Stay strong.

  • Ted

    Scott

    Thanks for the post, which as a Sydney sider I read with interest. I have to fundamentally disagree with your first point : (i) that the riots were caused by surfies and 20% disagree with point 2 : that they bear no relation to the Paris riots.

    On the first point, more detail following below, the actions by the surfies were dumb but can be explained. They were a reaction to what has happened to them over a number of years and also have occurred due to poor policing, leading to citizens taking action themselves. On the second point, I lived in Paris for 5 years. I can assure you that the riots there were similar to Sydney in that they were 100% islamic, a point that too many people are washing under the carpet these days. However take your point that in France these kids have been very badly treated by the French authorities, live in shitholes and have very little hope – nothing at all like the spoilt little prima donnas causing havoc in Sydney.

    Here is the truth – sadly not reported by much of the MSM or of course the BBC:

    The fact is that groups of young muslim guys have been assaulting, abusing and raping Australians of anglo-saxon descent for a number of years. On top of that, the Lebanese have made huge inroads into organised crime – they are so violent that even the feared Triads, asian organised crime cartels, tread warily. Some of the funds raised from their nefarious activities end up on the west bank and in lebanon, in the hands of hamas, islamic jihadi and hezbollah, to fund their nihilistic jihad. Some of the money goes into ‘islamic based’ activities, to mosques etc in Australia. The majority gets plunged back into the criminal activity.

    Sorry, but it is a muslim problem. These young muslims are raised separately from the mainstream australian community in male dominated families and get their life lessons in the mosques, run on islamic principles. They are bred on hatred, particularly against jews and the united states. As a result they are trained to view the egalitarian, open democracy that is Australia as an evil, non-islamic place inhabited by jews and anglo scum. Their families are patriarchal, arabic speaking, their view of women is that they are submissive chattels. They view non-islamic women as lower than dogs. Their views, alienation and actions are directly produced by their own communities. If they were in any non-islamic country they would be the same, it’s just unfortunate that Australia has to put up with them. However to say that it is Australian culture and society that produces this behaviour is 100% wrong. It misses the point – these people do not and never have considered themselves part of Australian society.

    Over 20 years of very poor leadership at state level has contributed to the problem. There has been no effort to bring these kids in from the primitive environment that surrounds them. There has been no effort to get them to see that the messages they receive about living life lead to a nihilistic dead end. In fact the reverse has been the case : governments, under the name of multi-cultiralism, have fostered and encouraged the development of non-english speaking, islamic communities with little to no connection with mainstream Australia. The police have paid little attention to them. The media seek always to understand without accepting the truth about what has happened. These communities are tied to the mosque, not a secular government. The mosque directs them toward Mecca and the Middle East, not Sydney and the beaches. End result is that there are no important islamic citizens in Australian cultural life, but there is a lot of hatred and violence.

    It is no surprise to me that surfies retaliated after years of young muslims going to the beaches and sexually harassing women, saying things like ‘she’s not worth 55 years’ in reference to their compatriot Bilal who was given 55 years last year for a succession of horrible, violent, religious based rapes on young anglo girls. By the way, about the worst thing you can do in sydney is to harrass the surfing communities from ‘the shire’, a region to the south of sydney which begins at maroubra beach and stretches down to sutherland – where steve waugh comes from, cricket fans. The surfies are a sub-culture all of their own and do not take kindly to anyone on their beaches, a pathetic attitude directed at all australians but one that almost never results in violence. However after a few years of violence and rape, these close knit communities are bound to react.

    By the way, the violence does not stem from christian lebanese, who are also harassed by the muslims, the latter arriving from beirut in the 1970s and 1980s. The former members of the lebanese community have entrenched themselves into Australia, producing political leaders, sportsmen and also actors etc.

    There is the truth of the matter. The problem is one with islam, unpalatable though that may sound. Luckily in Sydney these misguided young guys are a tiny minority. However across the west there has to be a far tougher approach to this ‘belief system’, (not religion) which has gone off the rails. No more hate preaching imams. Mosques with weapons and imams who spread the nihilism underlying current islamic thought need to be shut down. No more blaming advanced, western, tolerant societies for criminal acts in the name of islam. Mandatory english speaking for immigrants. Strict monitoring of islamic schools and charities. I know this sounds harsh but we are dealing with a threat that we have permitted to waltz into our front door and disrupt our peaceful way of life. Do nothing and the attacks will multiply and bacome more violent. I am afraid that the evidence points totally toard my conclusions.

    I will gladly answer any questions posted should people want more information.

  • Ted

    Scott

    Thanks for the post, which as a Sydney sider I read with interest. I have to fundamentally disagree with your first point : (i) that the riots were caused by surfies and 20% disagree with point 2 : that they bear no relation to the Paris riots.

    On the first point, more detail following below, the actions by the surfies were dumb but can be explained. They were a reaction to what has happened to them over a number of years and also have occurred due to poor policing, leading to citizens taking action themselves. On the second point, I lived in Paris for 5 years. I can assure you that the riots there were similar to Sydney in that they were 100% islamic, a point that too many people are washing under the carpet these days. However take your point that in France these kids have been very badly treated by the French authorities, live in shitholes and have very little hope – nothing at all like the spoilt little prima donnas causing havoc in Sydney.

    Here is the truth – sadly not reported by much of the MSM or of course the BBC:

    The fact is that groups of young muslim guys have been assaulting, abusing and raping Australians of anglo-saxon descent for a number of years. On top of that, the Lebanese have made huge inroads into organised crime – they are so violent that even the feared Triads, asian organised crime cartels, tread warily. Some of the funds raised from their nefarious activities end up on the west bank and in lebanon, in the hands of hamas, islamic jihadi and hezbollah, to fund their nihilistic jihad. Some of the money goes into ‘islamic based’ activities, to mosques etc in Australia. The majority gets plunged back into the criminal activity.

    Sorry, but it is a muslim problem. These young muslims are raised separately from the mainstream australian community in male dominated families and get their life lessons in the mosques, run on islamic principles. They are bred on hatred, particularly against jews and the united states. As a result they are trained to view the egalitarian, open democracy that is Australia as an evil, non-islamic place inhabited by jews and anglo scum. Their families are patriarchal, arabic speaking, their view of women is that they are submissive chattels. They view non-islamic women as lower than dogs. Their views, alienation and actions are directly produced by their own communities. If they were in any non-islamic country they would be the same, it’s just unfortunate that Australia has to put up with them. However to say that it is Australian culture and society that produces this behaviour is 100% wrong. It misses the point – these people do not and never have considered themselves part of Australian society.

    Over 20 years of very poor leadership at state level has contributed to the problem. There has been no effort to bring these kids in from the primitive environment that surrounds them. There has been no effort to get them to see that the messages they receive about living life lead to a nihilistic dead end. In fact the reverse has been the case : governments, under the name of multi-cultiralism, have fostered and encouraged the development of non-english speaking, islamic communities with little to no connection with mainstream Australia. The police have paid little attention to them. The media seek always to understand without accepting the truth about what has happened. These communities are tied to the mosque, not a secular government. The mosque directs them toward Mecca and the Middle East, not Sydney and the beaches. End result is that there are no important islamic citizens in Australian cultural life, but there is a lot of hatred and violence.

    It is no surprise to me that surfies retaliated after years of young muslims going to the beaches and sexually harassing women, saying things like ‘she’s not worth 55 years’ in reference to their compatriot Bilal who was given 55 years last year for a succession of horrible, violent, religious based rapes on young anglo girls. By the way, about the worst thing you can do in sydney is to harrass the surfing communities from ‘the shire’, a region to the south of sydney which begins at maroubra beach and stretches down to sutherland – where steve waugh comes from, cricket fans. The surfies are a sub-culture all of their own and do not take kindly to anyone on their beaches, a pathetic attitude directed at all australians but one that almost never results in violence. However after a few years of violence and rape, these close knit communities are bound to react.

    By the way, the violence does not stem from christian lebanese, who are also harassed by the muslims, the latter arriving from beirut in the 1970s and 1980s. The former members of the lebanese community have entrenched themselves into Australia, producing political leaders, sportsmen and also actors etc.

    There is the truth of the matter. The problem is one with islam, unpalatable though that may sound. Luckily in Sydney these misguided young guys are a tiny minority. However across the west there has to be a far tougher approach to this ‘belief system’, (not religion) which has gone off the rails. No more hate preaching imams. Mosques with weapons and imams who spread the nihilism underlying current islamic thought need to be shut down. No more blaming advanced, western, tolerant societies for criminal acts in the name of islam. Mandatory english speaking for immigrants. Strict monitoring of islamic schools and charities. I know this sounds harsh but we are dealing with a threat that we have permitted to waltz into our front door and disrupt our peaceful way of life. Do nothing and the attacks will multiply and bacome more violent. I am afraid that the evidence points totally toard my conclusions.

    I will gladly answer any questions posted should people want more information.

  • Karl.Rove

    I note the Sinny “monarch” are using something called lock-down. Have there been any screams of protest from Ozzi human lefts lawyers about the end of civil liberties? Like the screams of pain about the curfew in Paris (qui etait effectif – it worked)?
    Will check Google Oz later.

  • Pete_London

    Ted

    Agreed. I was in and around Sydney for three weeks recently and used the Australian Broadcasting Corporation to keep in touch with news. Frankly, it was the BBC with an Aussie accent. No surprise there then that they are trying to suppress the truth.

    What also struck me was how much attention the police are paying to speeding drivers. I thought it was bad in the UK! There must be a correlation somewhere between how much time and energy is put into nicking speeding drivers and how useless and cowed the police are in matters of serious crime.

    I quibble one line of yours: “If they were in any non-islamic country they would be the same, it’s just unfortunate that Australia has to put up with them.”

    Well they are the same in all non-islamic countries but Australia doesn’t have to put up with them. Islam has proven itself to be incompatible with free societies. This is a point, to be fair, that you make in your final paragraph. No, it’s not very libertarian but until we start putting the mullahs (at least) on planes to the middle east this cancer will not be beaten.

  • pommygranate

    It would appear that nearly all of Tony Blair’s much trumpeted proposals to combat terrorism in the UK have now been abandoned or watered down.

    The latest to go is the requirement for foreign born imams to take a “Britishness test”.

    Surprisingly, the Muslim Council of Britain, not previously known for its “moderateness” supported the idea.

    A rare hats off to Inayat Bunglawala who had this to say “We welcomed the idea. It made sense that people coming here to preach should have a good grasp of our country’s history”.

    Who, then, did object?

  • Karl Rove

    Another climbdown for Mr Blair? How unusual…

  • permanent expat

    Good holy grief! Do we (Our totally incompetent rulers) STILL not realize we are at war? See also Mark Steyn in today’s D.T

  • Verity

    Yes, and in another surprise move, Blair decided not to close any mosques that are known to foment terrorism. He’s just a “live and let live kind of a guy”, I guess. And he thinks he’s buying his own safety – one more demonstration of how deeply ignorant this man is. If they caught him, they’d kill him.

    I think it is time to hire a fleet of 747s and shovel these people on board. As a first step, there should be a lock-down on all mosques. The problem is Islam and this has to be acknowledged. While they are waiting to be ferried back to their tribal areas – it will take months to clear them all out – they can still have freedom of religion. They will be free to worship in their own homes – although I do understand that this may present a problem because there will be women in the house. I know! They can send the women out to the shops at prayer times.

    With all the evidence confronting us that there is a huge, malignant tumour in the West, I am amazed that the lefty crowd has managed to suppress any mention of it in civilised countries.

    It also infuriated me that the media were referring to Ozzie “racism” – their very, very favourite word of all time. They have managed to shut down all reasoned arguement with this word. Yet in Oz, for example, the Lebanese Christians, who arrived 20 years ago, are very well assimilated and are very successful Australians. I believe one is a state governor. They have done well in any field they have entered and experience no more racism than do the Chinese.

    It is not racism. It is Islam.

    Let them have their chopping off each other’s hands, burying each other in the sand up to the neck and stoning them to death, doing their “honor killings”, extracting “blood money”, chopping each other’s heads off, blah blah blah blah in their own countries. But we need to clear the infestation out of our own advanced, enlightened countries.

    Things are not going to get better, folks. They will continue to get worse. The London Transport bombings were not a one-off.

  • pommygranate

    Scott Burgess is publishing a progress report tomorrow on Tony’s 12 point plan announced to much fanfare in August. Should be interesting reading.

    Mark Steyn has identified the problem. It’s all down to a guy named Mo

    These days, whenever something goofy turns up on the news, chances are it involves a fellow called Mohammed. A plane flies into the World Trade Centre? Mohammed Atta. A gunman shoots up the El Al counter at Los Angeles airport? Hesham Mohamed Hedayet. A sniper starts killing petrol station customers around Washington, DC? John Allen Muhammed. A guy fatally stabs a Dutch movie director? Mohammed Bouyeri. A terrorist slaughters dozens in Bali? Noordin Mohamed. A gang-rapist in Sydney? Mohammed Skaf.

  • Ted, I read, with interest, your comment on the problem in Oz. I would be interested to hear more about the problem. It is something that is not widely known and something that seems to be surpressed by the media.

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Verity, I agree that illegal immigrants and visiting preachers of hate should be deported immediately. The trouble starts in how to treat those living here on legit passports, not to mention their children and grandchildren who may be born here. Kicking them out is not, ahem, very libertarian.

  • Verity

    Jonathan – I have to say I would kick them all out except the ones who are truly assimilated – by which I don’t just mean ones who go to the pub and screw white skanks. I mean by really assimilated, maybe even married to a Christian or a Jew. And who, like Jews, regard their religion as private and don’t run around declaring it. And who can make jokes about their religion.

    Islam is an intolerant religion intent on the creation, inch by inch, of Dar-as-salam. They are in Britain and Europe and the US with the intent of taking over. They have no trace of compunction about killing us because – and here is where you have to watch out for the weasel, obfuscatory words of Siqbal Sacranie – they do not regard non-Muslims as human. This is in their “holy” book. Sacranie and Bungawangla say they regret the deaths of innocent victims. We take that to mean the people murdered on London Transport. But to a Muslim, the only “innocent” victims are fellow Muslims. We cannot be “innocent” because we are guilty of aposty. (How? We are all born Muslim, you see. If we’re not “still” Muslim, then that means we left the faith. That’s why no one can “convert” to Islam. They “revert”.)

    Anyway, Johnathan, yes, I would deport the ones who were born in Britain – save the genuinely integrated – as well, because they recognise only one government – the government of the nation of Islam. They owe no allegiance to Britain or France or Denmark. Thus, we owe them none.

    BTW, Cher’s Lebanese. (Christian.)

  • Verity im a big fan of yours, but what you are suggesting is ludicrous. Im no fan of the faith but deporting 3rd generation muslims who are English, follow the laws of this land and dont impose their faith (or even have faith) is unworkable and rather offensive.

    For those that seek us harm or even believe we should be harmed, Ill put them on the plane myself.

  • If deporting violent criminals – no matter what passports they hold – is not Libertarian, I guess that explains why I am not a Libertarian. Anyone who joins a violent deadly conspiracy against a culture should not be able to rely on that culture’s protecting him. If that conspiracy promotes the dominance of a culture foreign both geographically and ideologically to an existing nation’s culture, what more appropriate punishment than deporting the conspirators to the homeland of their death cult? Lincoln said, “Democracy is not a suicide pact”. Neither is rationalism.

  • Verity

    Matt, I take your point and you will note how carefully I worded my post. There would be no reason to deport those who are thoroughly integrated and are as British as British Jews, for example, or the Italians who emigrated to Glasgow five or six generations ago. Or, the Indians from Uganda. All these people have kept some of their own ways, but are also thoroughly British.

    Who would decide is the question, and one I can’t answer. Muslims are taught to lie, with their hand on their koran, if it will further the cause of Dar-as-salaam. So even swearing to their god with their hand on their bible cannot be taken at face value. They are so instructed in their hadiths.

    But we do know that anyone who is third generation and speaks broken English because his mother was imported from a Pakistani tribal area and never learned to speak English, has not been brought up to be British and we are better off without this person.

    I also meant it when I said that during this period, which would probably take around two years, there should be a lock-down of mosques. We must act now, and be seen to be acting. We must take charge and not just react to events perpetrated on us.

  • Ted

    Come on folks, mass deportation is not the answer and I can’t agree that Islam is a ‘cancer’. There are millions of muslims who are effective citizens. We need these people to remain with us and not to take the wrong side.

    I will agree that at the moment islam is synonymous with trouble, however. It is a belief system that has become totally derailed. The key point I want to make is that the violence and hatred is produced from within islamic communities, not as a result of the interaction between those communities and western societies. The media subtext is always that these people are reacting to something we have done to them. The implication is that we have an obligation to correct wrongs. This is rubbish. The free western democracies have given these people what we all receive – an imperfect life in an imperfect state, yet one that towers above all other available lives out there, on any measure you may wish to use. In return, we provide taxes and loyalty to each other and the state. If we cannot fulfil these basic obligations, we are free to leave. If we take active steps to destroy these basic obligations, then it is for the state and fellow citizens to take steps to safeguard what they have. But there is absolutely nothing to apologise for, provide comepnsation for or to redress.

    The truth is that the muslim community is rpoducing these blighted children. They do nto come from the tolerant western tradition. The key agents producing the hatred are the imams in the mosques, as well as males in the communities. I still give the muslim majority the benefit of the doubt, although their response has been pathetically weak : I would imagine that the vast majority of muslims just want the problem to go away, but that they are frightened to speak up – a pretty normal response. Of course, this problem will not go away unless we in the west do what we need to do to protect ourselves.

    This does not mean deportations and the like. It does mean setting very clear rules out about what will be tolerated and what will not be tolerated by the state and the community. These are at the least : (i) the closing down of radicalised mosques (ii) far more stringent rules about who we allow to preach at mosques and de minimis requirements about their language, nationality and criminal histories (iii) fast tracked deprotations for radicalised muslims – after all, it’s a small world and most people have the choice to go to the countries that best suit their way of life (iv) identification at the local level of troublemakers and if necessary the stripping of their citizenship – being a citizen is not an god given right but a legal obligation provided by the state, which can be removed. There are just 4 sensible suggestions that will decrease the possibility of further trouble. However as some of you have rightly pointed out, the current backtracking will come to no good.

    Personally I think that because the religion lacks a centralised figurehead and body, like the Vatican, there is no controlling guide for your average young kid out there on what is acceptable belief and what is not. Osama Bin Laden and his goons have filled that space for young kids at the international level and it guarantees confusion at the local level, especially for young kids. Who else will you believe but your father and the local imam, who insist on non-assimilation, arabic as a first language and that non-islamic people – especially women – are no better than dogs?

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Robert, so where are you going to deport someone who has a valid passport or who, for example, is a third or fourth generation immigrant? This is not just a technical question. Criminals should be dealt with in the country in which they were born. All this raving about mass deportations is silly and also is rather unfair on the countries that are supposed to take these people.

  • Ted

    I have just read trhe ’12 point plan’ update by the Home Office. Dear, dear me. There will be more attacks as a result and I fear we are not being led by people with the right mettle. To the right, I see David Cameron who seems set to transform the Tories into a ‘Tory Lite’ love in.

    The jihadists must be shaking their heads in wonder at this weakness. We will pay the price.

  • Karl Rove

    I thought you libertarian wingnuts were in favour, like the fake-Green party, of abolishing immigration control?
    You can hardly deport people if they can come straight back in, you lot having abolished immig control to save a small amount of money.

    Btw, Verity, shouldn’t you be down at Wal-mart buying your Chinese toys?

  • Verity

    Karl Rove – Tony Blair abolished immigration control because Europe told him to and he does what he’s told because he wants to be appointed [not elected] president.

  • permanent expat

    I am not surprized at the number of you folk posting who are proposing actions that we should NOT take & “If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs……….you are obviously not aware of the gravity of the situation.”

  • Pete_London

    Ted

    Your analysis is sound but your conclusions go off on a strange route. Yes, this does come from within islam and the west is not to blame. Your final post then states that we’ll pay the price.

    Well I don’t want one single Briton to pay any price for the mistake of allowing a disfunctional, backward culture to enter and take root in my land. We’re at a point now that we can still do something about it. Very soon it’ll be too late.

  • As for me, I’m not a libertarian wingnut, I’m an objectivist wingnut. I favor immigration controls when necessary to keep a society that safeguards some aspects of freedom from degenerating into one that protects none. I don’t think of Islam as immediately and fatally toxic to all who come into contact with it, but that doesn’t mean those who do succumb shouldn’t be put out of the way one way or the other and the British justice system, from what I know of it, cannot and will not do that job.

  • Dave

    But the problem isn’t within Islam, the problem is within our own Politicial elite who don’t give a shit about the chaos they are creating for the poor lower class white communities.
    They’re just racist little Englanders as far as our ‘leaders’ are concerned.

  • Susan

    Verity,

    Cher is not Lebanese; she is Armenian and Cherokee Indian. (Although sadly, she has done the Michael Jackson thing and removed all physical traces of her Indian-ness through plastic surgery and skin-bleaching creams. I thought she was much more attractive when she looked like an Indian.)

    I think you have her confused with Marlo Thomas of “That Girl” (daughter of Danny Thomas of “Make Room For Daddy” fame). They are both examples of successful Lebanese Christians as was Peter Brian Medaway, half-British and half-Lebanese, a Nobel prize winner in I think, chemistry or physics.

    Lots of Christian Arabs have been very successful in the US including the Thomases, New Hampshire Senator John Sununu, the comedians Tony Shalhoub (from “Galaxy Quest”). Jamie Farr and Kathy Najimy, singer Paula Abdul, the actress Selma Hayek and many more I could think of if given a few minutes.

    What frosts me is that the Muslim Arabs often use the Christian Arabs as examples of the contributions that Arabs have made to the US society, when I can’t think of a single US Muslim Arab who has done any thing approaching the contributions of the US Christian Arabs.

  • I am given to understand that Britain has had Muslim communites for quite a while (given that some British Muslims are now in the 3rd generation) so it is pretty clear that they’ve been there quite a while.

    So that leads me to wonder if the problems that are happening in the UK have the same ‘root-cause’ as in Sydney, that being a failure to enforce the laws of the land properly. It seems to me that a lot of the ‘culture problems’ involved might well be curable by plain old fashioned police work, and a legal system that is committed to upholding public safety and order.

    Restoring that old fashioned police and legal system seems to be a far more reasonable thing to be pushing for.

    I must say I’m disappointed to be reading comments about ‘mass deportation’. This blog is about liberty, the right to be different without being interfered with by the state; and a large majority of Britain’s Muslims are not terrorists. They have as much right as anyone to practice their faith as long as they abide to the laws of the United Kingdom.

  • Susan

    Scott,

    Unfortunately a large portion of Muslims believe that they can’t practice their religion fully until they can practice all aspects of it, including the political and judicial aspects of it.

    This is the crux of the problem we face, as Islam’s political and judicial beliefs are highly in conflict with Western values, and also discriminate against non-Muslims. Shall we give credence, in the name of liberty, to a religious belief that includes subjugation of other peoples — including ourselves — as part of its creed?

  • Johnathan Pearce

    Robert writes that he is an “objectivist wingnut”. Fair dos, I am a bit of an Rand nut mesself, but I don’t quite recall the great lady ever advocating forcibly removing criminals back to the homes whence their ancestors came.

  • This type of thing is a problem for libertarians. How can you be free if you are dead is a question that needs to be asked. I agree above that in many of these problems are caused by existing laws not be enforced on an equal basis. This is mostly due to political correctness and cack-handed attempts at softly-softly approaches to policing.

  • rosignol

    If they’re criminals, convict them and toss them in prison for a good long time.

    The real question is ‘what to do with people who come from a background highly correlated with growing up to be a criminal (in this case, the descendants of unassimilated muslims), but haven’t actually been convicted of anything yet’?

    That’s something western societies have been trying to figure out for some time now.

    IMO, a useful first step would be not conferring citizenship based merely on the geographic location you happen to be at when you exit the birth canal.

  • Verity

    Yes, Rosignol qui chante le nuit.

    Singapore doesn’t grant citizenship just because your mother happened to be there when you popped out. It’s not an undemocratic notion. In fact, the awarding of citizenship just because you exited where you did is undemocratic, because it deprives the real citizens of that country of their right to determine whether you belong.

  • Karl Rove

    Verity – wrong again
    It’s up to Rosignol if he chooses to mispell his name.
    But thinking “nuit” is masculine is unforgivable.
    You’re wrong abt Woody (q.v.)

    Stick to shopping in Walmart. What cd be more libertarian than greed?

  • Verity

    Karl Rove – You are correct and I realised the second I hit Post. I was going to do an immediate correction, but thought it would be too pedantic. But you’re right. A really clumsy mistake.

    I’m too greedy to shop at Wal-Mart.

  • Millie Woods

    Ted, I couldn’t agree with you more. We have similar pproblems with the young Islamic males in the Toronto area. A family friend who works with alienated youths has had her clientele change from poor white and black young people to violent Islamics in the past few years. I actually fear for her safety.
    The bottom line is that Islamic immigrants are incapable of being assimilated because they do not wish to be part of the main stream. Moreover they soak up social service budgets at an alarming rate. Their positive contribution to the societies they join is minimal to non-existent. So the big question is why are they allowed into our countries.
    The ‘final solution’ would seem to be to stop all Islamic immigration right now.

  • Verity

    Millie Woods – They don’t wish to be part of the main stream because they think the mainstream is decadent and they are superior to it. They are in the West to take it over for their allah. They are embarked on a crusade – and people in the West don’t see it because it is outside our thinking.

    Yes, they soak up public money like a sponge. Not only with welfare for the vast number of babies they drop, but the Pakistanis in Britain marry their first cousins, themselves the products of marriage between first cousins for generations. They account for around 3% of the births in Britain and 30% of the birth defects, so they leach a large amount of money out of the health service, to which few contribute.

  • rosignol

    As far as my pseudonym is concerned, it is on account of my ISP having an 8-character limit on usernames when I signed on… a limit that has since been removed, but would be more trouble than it’s worth to remedy.