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	<title>Comments on: Justice versus legality &#8211; the case of Daniel Cuthbert</title>
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	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Just testing</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90905</link>
		<dc:creator>Just testing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2006 04:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I for one have just entered the &quot;evil&quot; URL (or one like it, as donate.bt.com seems to be down...).  See the URL this post is linked to; you all can try it too...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I for one have just entered the &#8220;evil&#8221; URL (or one like it, as donate.bt.com seems to be down&#8230;).  See the URL this post is linked to; you all can try it too&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Jasperson</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90904</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Jasperson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great information. You are really true in what you said.  If you get a chance, you can check out my blog on convicted
 at http://www.convictedworld.com. 

Andrea Jasperson
http://www.convictedworld.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great information. You are really true in what you said.  If you get a chance, you can check out my blog on convicted<br />
 at <a href="http://www.convictedworld.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.convictedworld.com</a>. </p>
<p>Andrea Jasperson<br />
<a href="http://www.convictedworld.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.convictedworld.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tel</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90903</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would be interesting to see a spammer send out emails containing tempting URL links to the &lt;b&gt;../../../&lt;/b&gt; reference. Anyone gets an email and clicks on the link -- blam! up for computer misuse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see a spammer send out emails containing tempting URL links to the <b>../../../</b> reference. Anyone gets an email and clicks on the link &#8212; blam! up for computer misuse.</p>
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		<title>By: defender</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90902</link>
		<dc:creator>defender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suggest that we all hit all the UK govenement web site we can find with the command: http:///www.domainname.ext../../../  in protest.  This should teach a lesson to these stupid cops and magistrats (magistraly stupid!) that know  nothing about computers the internet or simply life.
 
The judge that took this decision should be tarred and feathered as well as the Scotland yard piece of craps.

I am so sick and tired of these corrupted and incompetent parasitic bureaucrates bringing down  our societies! I hope that one day the rope will break on them!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest that we all hit all the UK govenement web site we can find with the command: <a href="http:///www.domainname.ext" rel="nofollow">http:///www.domainname.ext</a>../../../  in protest.  This should teach a lesson to these stupid cops and magistrats (magistraly stupid!) that know  nothing about computers the internet or simply life.</p>
<p>The judge that took this decision should be tarred and feathered as well as the Scotland yard piece of craps.</p>
<p>I am so sick and tired of these corrupted and incompetent parasitic bureaucrates bringing down  our societies! I hope that one day the rope will break on them!</p>
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		<title>By: Dario</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90901</link>
		<dc:creator>Dario</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why the phiser would be a south american guy living in a south american country?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the phiser would be a south american guy living in a south american country?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Milner</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90900</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Milner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bet that&#039;s the last time Daniel Cuthbert, and indeed many others consider making a charitable donation over the web. Many thanks for the &quot;heads up&quot; that BT are in fact police and government stoolies. That won&#8217;t do business any good; nobody loves a stoolie. You do start to wonder whether the police are a necessary evil or just the enforcement branch of the government&#8217;s repression apparatus. For them there is no notion of innocence, only people that haven&#039;t yet been convicted. How can you expect anything resembling a fair trial when judges and lawyers just don&#039;t have a clue about anything technical, particularly computer related. The government&#8217;s overall plan is to keep the population cowed by turning law-abiding citizens into convicted criminals, thus to discourage all forms of protest, including anti-government blogging. Police watchword: When you can&#039;t catch the criminals, make criminals out of those you can catch. A criminal record can definitely disrupt your emigration plans, so join those free-thinking risk takers that have left Police State UK. But don&#8217;t leave a forwarding address, or register with the Embassy when you arrive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bet that&#8217;s the last time Daniel Cuthbert, and indeed many others consider making a charitable donation over the web. Many thanks for the &#8220;heads up&#8221; that BT are in fact police and government stoolies. That won&rsquo;t do business any good; nobody loves a stoolie. You do start to wonder whether the police are a necessary evil or just the enforcement branch of the government&rsquo;s repression apparatus. For them there is no notion of innocence, only people that haven&#8217;t yet been convicted. How can you expect anything resembling a fair trial when judges and lawyers just don&#8217;t have a clue about anything technical, particularly computer related. The government&rsquo;s overall plan is to keep the population cowed by turning law-abiding citizens into convicted criminals, thus to discourage all forms of protest, including anti-government blogging. Police watchword: When you can&#8217;t catch the criminals, make criminals out of those you can catch. A criminal record can definitely disrupt your emigration plans, so join those free-thinking risk takers that have left Police State UK. But don&rsquo;t leave a forwarding address, or register with the Embassy when you arrive.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Rutherford</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90899</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Rutherford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry if I submitted a blank post just now; I hit &quot;Enter&quot; by mistake.  

When I am sent to a directory page for downloading (legitimate) files via FTP, while using the Web, I often cannot find what was said to be there, and I will then see if it might be in the directory above (..).  I suppose this would be seen as illegal at least under the UK law being discussed; I don&#039;t know about the U. S., where I live.  

This is a troubling case and it&#039;s apparent to me that the man did nothing at all wrong.  The law needs revising, and his sentence needs overturning.

I would hope, though, that in any event his career will still be safe, as any potential employer worth working for should recognize the stupidity of this affair and be appareciative of this individual&#039;s suspicions about the site.  I would be suspicious, too, if I received no acknowledgment for a payment!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry if I submitted a blank post just now; I hit &#8220;Enter&#8221; by mistake.  </p>
<p>When I am sent to a directory page for downloading (legitimate) files via FTP, while using the Web, I often cannot find what was said to be there, and I will then see if it might be in the directory above (..).  I suppose this would be seen as illegal at least under the UK law being discussed; I don&#8217;t know about the U. S., where I live.  </p>
<p>This is a troubling case and it&#8217;s apparent to me that the man did nothing at all wrong.  The law needs revising, and his sentence needs overturning.</p>
<p>I would hope, though, that in any event his career will still be safe, as any potential employer worth working for should recognize the stupidity of this affair and be appareciative of this individual&#8217;s suspicions about the site.  I would be suspicious, too, if I received no acknowledgment for a payment!</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Mason</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90898</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed with many of the other commenters -- this is a travesty of justice.
Personally, I&#039;ve been waiting to comment until more details were revealed on
what actions he took exactly, and now, here they are -- and they boil down to
two simple URL checks.

His actions were entirely understandable, IMO.   They were not hostile
activities in themselves -- they might have been the *prelude* to hostility,
in other cases, but not in this one.

Instead of making parallels with &quot;rattling the doorknob&quot; or &quot;lurking around the
back door of a bank&quot;, a better parallel would be looking through the bank&#039;s
front window, from the street!

If only law enforcement took this degree of interest in genuine phishing cases,
where innocent parties find their bank accounts emptied by *real* criminals,
like the unprosected phisher in Quebec discussed in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/computersecurity/2005-09-11-fraud-investigation_x.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this USA Today article&lt;/a&gt;.

All in all, this case is a scandal.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed with many of the other commenters &#8212; this is a travesty of justice.<br />
Personally, I&#8217;ve been waiting to comment until more details were revealed on<br />
what actions he took exactly, and now, here they are &#8212; and they boil down to<br />
two simple URL checks.</p>
<p>His actions were entirely understandable, IMO.   They were not hostile<br />
activities in themselves &#8212; they might have been the *prelude* to hostility,<br />
in other cases, but not in this one.</p>
<p>Instead of making parallels with &#8220;rattling the doorknob&#8221; or &#8220;lurking around the<br />
back door of a bank&#8221;, a better parallel would be looking through the bank&#8217;s<br />
front window, from the street!</p>
<p>If only law enforcement took this degree of interest in genuine phishing cases,<br />
where innocent parties find their bank accounts emptied by *real* criminals,<br />
like the unprosected phisher in Quebec discussed in <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/computersecurity/2005-09-11-fraud-investigation_x.htm" rel="nofollow">this USA Today article</a>.</p>
<p>All in all, this case is a scandal.</p>
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		<title>By: Watching Them, Watching Us</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90897</link>
		<dc:creator>Watching Them, Watching Us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why did the Police and the Criminal Prosecution Service proceed with this case, when there are literally thousands of &quot;computer crimes&quot; happening every day which are far more serious  ?

Perhaps we should , say over a period of a month, actually &lt;b&gt;formally complain&lt;/b&gt; to the Police about &lt;b&gt;each and every&lt;/b&gt; email virus attachment and 419 phising scam, illegal pharmaceticals or porn or gambling offers etc that we get, and, optionally every suspicious alert from our firewalls and other security systems.

Thjis could easily be hundreds or thousands of &quot;Computer Misuse Act&quot; crimes, per person, per day.

This would show just how under reported actual computer crimes are, and might lead to the badly needed reform of the archaic , pre-internet era Computer Misuse Act.

It would also completly ruin the cosy deal between the Treasury and the Home Office, whereby David Blunkett got a couple of billion pounds extra to spend  out of Gordon Brown, on condition that recorded crime fell by 15% over the next couple of years. 

Proper recording of internet related crime would ruin any chance of those figures being achieved, except through spin and trickery.

http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/2004/07/blair_and_blunk.html
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did the Police and the Criminal Prosecution Service proceed with this case, when there are literally thousands of &#8220;computer crimes&#8221; happening every day which are far more serious  ?</p>
<p>Perhaps we should , say over a period of a month, actually <b>formally complain</b> to the Police about <b>each and every</b> email virus attachment and 419 phising scam, illegal pharmaceticals or porn or gambling offers etc that we get, and, optionally every suspicious alert from our firewalls and other security systems.</p>
<p>Thjis could easily be hundreds or thousands of &#8220;Computer Misuse Act&#8221; crimes, per person, per day.</p>
<p>This would show just how under reported actual computer crimes are, and might lead to the badly needed reform of the archaic , pre-internet era Computer Misuse Act.</p>
<p>It would also completly ruin the cosy deal between the Treasury and the Home Office, whereby David Blunkett got a couple of billion pounds extra to spend  out of Gordon Brown, on condition that recorded crime fell by 15% over the next couple of years. </p>
<p>Proper recording of internet related crime would ruin any chance of those figures being achieved, except through spin and trickery.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/2004/07/blair_and_blunk.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/2004/07/blair_and_blunk.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matt Q</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90896</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to point out it wasn&#039;t the admins of the DEC webservers that reported him, it was rather BT&#039;s IDS (Intrusion Detection System) which was set to pick up certain patterns which could be attacks.

IIRC he was also using Lynx (a text based web browser) on Solaris (a UNIX derivant), which I believe added to the IDS tagging him as an attacker (I should point out that is from my /bad/ memory).

However the idea of arresting the guy is quite absurd - his cat walking aimlessly over the keyboard looking for attention could have done this. But there are better ways to go about checking the validity of a website - a whois for starters.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to point out it wasn&#8217;t the admins of the DEC webservers that reported him, it was rather BT&#8217;s IDS (Intrusion Detection System) which was set to pick up certain patterns which could be attacks.</p>
<p>IIRC he was also using Lynx (a text based web browser) on Solaris (a UNIX derivant), which I believe added to the IDS tagging him as an attacker (I should point out that is from my /bad/ memory).</p>
<p>However the idea of arresting the guy is quite absurd &#8211; his cat walking aimlessly over the keyboard looking for attention could have done this. But there are better ways to go about checking the validity of a website &#8211; a whois for starters.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90895</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kim,

And what do you think the police will do? I&#039;m sure that the police are trained to do two things with burglaries

1. Ask homeowner if they have insurance
2. Give them a crime number for the insurance company if they have.

They don&#039;t want to know. Short on resources, of course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim,</p>
<p>And what do you think the police will do? I&#8217;m sure that the police are trained to do two things with burglaries</p>
<p>1. Ask homeowner if they have insurance<br />
2. Give them a crime number for the insurance company if they have.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t want to know. Short on resources, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: BOB</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/10/justice-versus-legality-the-ca/#comment-90894</link>
		<dc:creator>BOB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=8118#comment-90894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can tell Daniel was not a criminal, he would have known the police in the UK have absolutely no interest in guilt or innocence they really only care about conviction &amp; the more serious conviction they can muster the better.  Not one single policeman or woman would ever report that a person was innocent if they knew it to be the case, unless they have someone else lined up to take the blame.  It&#039;s all about they&#039;re conviction rate figures, there is no justice in this country, which is why I laughed my head off about PC Blakelock, we live in a police state by default &amp; every pig that is killed deserves champagne corks popping in celebration - Harry Roberts a true hero.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can tell Daniel was not a criminal, he would have known the police in the UK have absolutely no interest in guilt or innocence they really only care about conviction &#038; the more serious conviction they can muster the better.  Not one single policeman or woman would ever report that a person was innocent if they knew it to be the case, unless they have someone else lined up to take the blame.  It&#8217;s all about they&#8217;re conviction rate figures, there is no justice in this country, which is why I laughed my head off about PC Blakelock, we live in a police state by default &#038; every pig that is killed deserves champagne corks popping in celebration &#8211; Harry Roberts a true hero.</p>
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