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	<title>Comments on: Please note: the Provisional IRA still exists</title>
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	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: snide</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85122</link>
		<dc:creator>snide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 13:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rollo probably has much to be insecure about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rollo probably has much to be insecure about.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85121</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathon, I worked in N.Ireland and I&#039;m absolutely certain that it ain&#039;t over, not by a long shot. Nobody is mentioning the arms caches South of the border, are they?
We&#039;re dealing with generations of thugs here, people who grew up knowing nothing but violence and confrontation. Expecting them to become reasonable citizens overnight is fairyland stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathon, I worked in N.Ireland and I&#8217;m absolutely certain that it ain&#8217;t over, not by a long shot. Nobody is mentioning the arms caches South of the border, are they?<br />
We&#8217;re dealing with generations of thugs here, people who grew up knowing nothing but violence and confrontation. Expecting them to become reasonable citizens overnight is fairyland stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnathan Pearce</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85120</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnathan Pearce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rollo, so the IRA have got what they wanted and we can all settle down in a group hug and go over to democratic politics! Ain&#039;t that nice. 

We have been told many times before the crooks and mass murderers of the IRA and their political apologists that the violence is all over, let&#039;s be nice boys etc, that Perry&#039;s scepticism is understanderble. Spare the insults, makes you sound chippy and insecure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rollo, so the IRA have got what they wanted and we can all settle down in a group hug and go over to democratic politics! Ain&#8217;t that nice. </p>
<p>We have been told many times before the crooks and mass murderers of the IRA and their political apologists that the violence is all over, let&#8217;s be nice boys etc, that Perry&#8217;s scepticism is understanderble. Spare the insults, makes you sound chippy and insecure.</p>
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		<title>By: Rollo</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85119</link>
		<dc:creator>Rollo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael,

I would imagine that the politicos in Dublin are terrified at the prospect of an Irish reunification.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I would imagine that the politicos in Dublin are terrified at the prospect of an Irish reunification.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael McGowan</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85118</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael McGowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 19:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think that Blair is a fool, just deeply cynical and at bottom, a paper tiger when terror stalks his own backyard. The Peace Process was never about returning Northern Ireland to real normality and democracy.  It was about allowing the terrorists, and especially the IRA, a fairly free hand in the Six Counties provided that they stopped bombing and killing outside Ireland and especially in London.  The Tories, indeed the entire UK Establishment, were complicit in this process as much as Blair: viz Chris Patten&#039;s dubious involvement.  In short, a very British stitch-up supported in large part by the English middle classes for whom Ireland is a far away country of which they know nothing.

The good news is that there is post-1998 a semblance of normality in Northern Ireland, especially for the middle classes whose homes have rocketed in value.  However, there is much less good news for those at the bottom of the pile in Northern Ireland......the very people New Labour claims to champion.  Working class areas of Northern Ireland remain the fiefdoms of terror, Republican and Loyalist.  In these areas, the gunmen, kneecappers and drug barons rule unchecked and the rule of omerta is sacrosanct. Unemployment remains very high partly because of the collapse of traditional industries but also because it is very hard to set up legitimate businesses in a province where organised crime run or franchised by terrorists has been allowed to grow unchecked.  The authorities usually look the other way.    

A weird paradox is that the worse this state of affairs gets, the harder it is to envisage Irish reunification.  Northern Ireland is one of the poorest parts of the UK and receives vast subsidies from London.  These are indispensable to keeping relative peace, not least by damping down unemployment.  It is hard to imagine Dublin being able to come up with the same level of funding.  No wonder a large number of Catholics in Northern Ireland prefer the status quo.  That does not alter the fact that for many of them, and for many working class Protestants, life remains grim.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that Blair is a fool, just deeply cynical and at bottom, a paper tiger when terror stalks his own backyard. The Peace Process was never about returning Northern Ireland to real normality and democracy.  It was about allowing the terrorists, and especially the IRA, a fairly free hand in the Six Counties provided that they stopped bombing and killing outside Ireland and especially in London.  The Tories, indeed the entire UK Establishment, were complicit in this process as much as Blair: viz Chris Patten&#8217;s dubious involvement.  In short, a very British stitch-up supported in large part by the English middle classes for whom Ireland is a far away country of which they know nothing.</p>
<p>The good news is that there is post-1998 a semblance of normality in Northern Ireland, especially for the middle classes whose homes have rocketed in value.  However, there is much less good news for those at the bottom of the pile in Northern Ireland&#8230;&#8230;the very people New Labour claims to champion.  Working class areas of Northern Ireland remain the fiefdoms of terror, Republican and Loyalist.  In these areas, the gunmen, kneecappers and drug barons rule unchecked and the rule of omerta is sacrosanct. Unemployment remains very high partly because of the collapse of traditional industries but also because it is very hard to set up legitimate businesses in a province where organised crime run or franchised by terrorists has been allowed to grow unchecked.  The authorities usually look the other way.    </p>
<p>A weird paradox is that the worse this state of affairs gets, the harder it is to envisage Irish reunification.  Northern Ireland is one of the poorest parts of the UK and receives vast subsidies from London.  These are indispensable to keeping relative peace, not least by damping down unemployment.  It is hard to imagine Dublin being able to come up with the same level of funding.  No wonder a large number of Catholics in Northern Ireland prefer the status quo.  That does not alter the fact that for many of them, and for many working class Protestants, life remains grim.  </p>
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		<title>By: Rollo</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85117</link>
		<dc:creator>Rollo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 19:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perry,

You really are a pompous and ill-informed idiot. I rather fancy that if I met you in real life (heaven forbid) you would come off as some kind of spoiled upper-class twit with hugely inflated ideas of your own importance and intellectual capacity, spouting pronouncements like &quot;I am a libertawian&quot; or &quot;I am an anarcho-minimalist&quot; to all and sundry. 

No dear Perry, the real reason that the IRA are laying down their arms is because they *can*. They have effectively won all that they can win for now, and the most profitable strategic route for them lies in politics. And clearly the world is now the oyster. While they are being applauded for their declaration, poor old Unionists are still running round each other&#039;s estates clad in their favourite Rangers jerseys, shooting each other dead. The novelty of this will begin to wear off soon, no doubt. It is a delicious irony that the greatest danger posed to the life of &quot;Mad Dog&quot; Adair is from &quot;Mad Dog&quot; Unionists. Adams and McGuinness have worked incredibly hard behind the scenes to convince some of the most ruthless Republican psychopaths and thugs that this is the way forward. For that minor miracle, at least, they deserve credit.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perry,</p>
<p>You really are a pompous and ill-informed idiot. I rather fancy that if I met you in real life (heaven forbid) you would come off as some kind of spoiled upper-class twit with hugely inflated ideas of your own importance and intellectual capacity, spouting pronouncements like &#8220;I am a libertawian&#8221; or &#8220;I am an anarcho-minimalist&#8221; to all and sundry. </p>
<p>No dear Perry, the real reason that the IRA are laying down their arms is because they *can*. They have effectively won all that they can win for now, and the most profitable strategic route for them lies in politics. And clearly the world is now the oyster. While they are being applauded for their declaration, poor old Unionists are still running round each other&#8217;s estates clad in their favourite Rangers jerseys, shooting each other dead. The novelty of this will begin to wear off soon, no doubt. It is a delicious irony that the greatest danger posed to the life of &#8220;Mad Dog&#8221; Adair is from &#8220;Mad Dog&#8221; Unionists. Adams and McGuinness have worked incredibly hard behind the scenes to convince some of the most ruthless Republican psychopaths and thugs that this is the way forward. For that minor miracle, at least, they deserve credit.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85116</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&amp;storyID=2005-08-01T120456Z_01_SCH138611_RTRUKOC_0_IRISH-SINNFEIN.xml&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sinn Fein seen gaining from IRA arms move&lt;/a&gt;

&quot;Even if you strip out the whole paramilitary issue, Sinn Fein is still a quasi-Marxist party -- it is extreme left in the things it says about economic policy, and that kind of thing frightens the middle class,&quot; said Dan O&#039;Brien, senior editor at the Economist Intelligence Unit.

&quot;The party&#039;s economic vision for Ireland is Cuba without the palm trees,&quot; he added.

Does anyone, apart from Our Little Tone, really believe that the IRA is going to disarm in any way? Worth noting that the phrase they usually employ, &quot;putting weapons beyond immediate use&quot; is not disarming, just burying them in case they are needed again in the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&#038;storyID=2005-08-01T120456Z_01_SCH138611_RTRUKOC_0_IRISH-SINNFEIN.xml" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Sinn Fein seen gaining from IRA arms move</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Even if you strip out the whole paramilitary issue, Sinn Fein is still a quasi-Marxist party &#8212; it is extreme left in the things it says about economic policy, and that kind of thing frightens the middle class,&#8221; said Dan O&#8217;Brien, senior editor at the Economist Intelligence Unit.</p>
<p>&#8220;The party&#8217;s economic vision for Ireland is Cuba without the palm trees,&#8221; he added.</p>
<p>Does anyone, apart from Our Little Tone, really believe that the IRA is going to disarm in any way? Worth noting that the phrase they usually employ, &#8220;putting weapons beyond immediate use&#8221; is not disarming, just burying them in case they are needed again in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85115</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See this article by Kevin Myers of the Irish Times:

&lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/07/30/do3001.xml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Provisionals have gone as far as they can... and their war is not over&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See this article by Kevin Myers of the Irish Times:</p>
<p><a target="_blank" href="http://opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/07/30/do3001.xml" rel="nofollow">The Provisionals have gone as far as they can&#8230; and their war is not over</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85114</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today&#039;s Observer contained one of the most infuriating articles i&#039;ve ever read. Why is blair willing to negotiate with the IRA but not Al-Qaeda? Because he&#039;s RACIST! no, seriously ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today&#8217;s Observer contained one of the most infuriating articles i&#8217;ve ever read. Why is blair willing to negotiate with the IRA but not Al-Qaeda? Because he&#8217;s RACIST! no, seriously &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85113</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fact that many long serving members of the IRA consider the statement to be one of surrender should tell us something. I don&#039;t really care if the IRA keep some secret pile of 0.5 cal rifles and semtex - they can no longer use it. I also don&#039;t care if they remain, for some time, a powerful organised crime cartel.

It&#039;s a big step down from well organised guerrilla force to well organised mob. The first means you have the tacit and low level support of the community you operate in. The latter means you have lost it.

It&#039;s a huge step forward for peace in NI. So what if the IRA have no regrets about what they did in the past? I&#039;m not happy because this news shows what nice people they&#039;ve all suddenly become, but because it shows they lost, in the end. Armed resistance with or without terror tactics has failed them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that many long serving members of the IRA consider the statement to be one of surrender should tell us something. I don&#8217;t really care if the IRA keep some secret pile of 0.5 cal rifles and semtex &#8211; they can no longer use it. I also don&#8217;t care if they remain, for some time, a powerful organised crime cartel.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a big step down from well organised guerrilla force to well organised mob. The first means you have the tacit and low level support of the community you operate in. The latter means you have lost it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a huge step forward for peace in NI. So what if the IRA have no regrets about what they did in the past? I&#8217;m not happy because this news shows what nice people they&#8217;ve all suddenly become, but because it shows they lost, in the end. Armed resistance with or without terror tactics has failed them.</p>
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		<title>By: HJHJ</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85112</link>
		<dc:creator>HJHJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2005 18:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Although I am highly suspicious of the IRA, and am certainly very uncomfortable about quite a few aspects of Blair&#039;s policies in Northern Ireland, to call him a &#039;credulous fool&#039; is hardly a reasoned criticism.

The IRA have made their announcement because they think that they are more likely to get what they want as a result. The correct response is to, publically, at least, take them at their word and do not give them a single excuse for not doing as promised or to blame the British government or unionists if they don&#039;t keep their word. Nor should they be given any opportunity to take the moral high ground in the view of the rest of the world (in many European countries, people honestly believe the IRA&#039;s line that the British army is an occupying force against the wishes of the population of Northern Ireland), or the cathloic population. If the army watchtowers were left in place, the IRA could score a huge propoganda victory by saying &quot;see, we promised to use purely peaceful methods yet the British government is still intent on military occupation&quot;  So the smart thing to do is to take away the visible signs of army presence with as much haste as possible (watchtowers can quickly and easily be rebuilt should the situation require) and to turn the spotlight back on the IRA, especially the punishment beatings and other criminal activities in which the IRA has still engaged during the &#039;ceasefire&#039;. The result will be that either the IRA will truly give up violence or they will be exposed to the world for what they have always been.

In this respect at least, Blair is not a credulous fool - he is acting intelligently (and it&#039;s not very often I have cause to praise Blair).

Incidentally Perry, I find your response to Phil&#039;s admittedly provocative post, rather intemperate and disproportionate. Was personal abuse really necessary? 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I am highly suspicious of the IRA, and am certainly very uncomfortable about quite a few aspects of Blair&#8217;s policies in Northern Ireland, to call him a &#8216;credulous fool&#8217; is hardly a reasoned criticism.</p>
<p>The IRA have made their announcement because they think that they are more likely to get what they want as a result. The correct response is to, publically, at least, take them at their word and do not give them a single excuse for not doing as promised or to blame the British government or unionists if they don&#8217;t keep their word. Nor should they be given any opportunity to take the moral high ground in the view of the rest of the world (in many European countries, people honestly believe the IRA&#8217;s line that the British army is an occupying force against the wishes of the population of Northern Ireland), or the cathloic population. If the army watchtowers were left in place, the IRA could score a huge propoganda victory by saying &#8220;see, we promised to use purely peaceful methods yet the British government is still intent on military occupation&#8221;  So the smart thing to do is to take away the visible signs of army presence with as much haste as possible (watchtowers can quickly and easily be rebuilt should the situation require) and to turn the spotlight back on the IRA, especially the punishment beatings and other criminal activities in which the IRA has still engaged during the &#8216;ceasefire&#8217;. The result will be that either the IRA will truly give up violence or they will be exposed to the world for what they have always been.</p>
<p>In this respect at least, Blair is not a credulous fool &#8211; he is acting intelligently (and it&#8217;s not very often I have cause to praise Blair).</p>
<p>Incidentally Perry, I find your response to Phil&#8217;s admittedly provocative post, rather intemperate and disproportionate. Was personal abuse really necessary? </p>
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		<title>By: Julian Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/07/please-note-the-provisional-ir/#comment-85111</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2005 11:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7860#comment-85111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I notice McGuinness was in Washington last week, seemingly still desperate to prove to supporters there that the IRA was an organisation &quot;dedicated to peace&quot; and not dedicated to murdering people over a drink or robbing banks. What is interesting is the IRA has no plans still to allow any verification that it has completely disposed of all its weapons, rather we are supposed to believe that an organisation such as the IRA can be trusted to do what it says it will do.

Sorry but I think I&#039;d rather trust Al Queda, at least we KNOW what their true intentions are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I notice McGuinness was in Washington last week, seemingly still desperate to prove to supporters there that the IRA was an organisation &#8220;dedicated to peace&#8221; and not dedicated to murdering people over a drink or robbing banks. What is interesting is the IRA has no plans still to allow any verification that it has completely disposed of all its weapons, rather we are supposed to believe that an organisation such as the IRA can be trusted to do what it says it will do.</p>
<p>Sorry but I think I&#8217;d rather trust Al Queda, at least we KNOW what their true intentions are.</p>
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