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	<title>Comments on: Delusional Europe and Authoritarian Britain</title>
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	<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/</link>
	<description>A blog for people with a critically rational individualist perspective</description>
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		<title>By: rosignol</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78585</link>
		<dc:creator>rosignol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Might not be the right thread, but what happens to the British (english?) and French Permanent SC seats when the French Pass the EU conctitution and they go on to form a superstate called the EU?&lt;/i&gt;

Who cares? SC seats are more about bragging rights than anything else these days... ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Might not be the right thread, but what happens to the British (english?) and French Permanent SC seats when the French Pass the EU conctitution and they go on to form a superstate called the EU?</i></p>
<p>Who cares? SC seats are more about bragging rights than anything else these days&#8230; </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EY</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78584</link>
		<dc:creator>EY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 22:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops! soory about the double spacing, strange machine etc.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops! soory about the double spacing, strange machine etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EY</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78583</link>
		<dc:creator>EY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 22:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An ironically amusing posting! just love the way everything resolves itself into a spitting match 

between left and right, - politics has nothing to do with it! big statism is NOT the sole perogative 

of mentally deluded socialists, it is also appeals to the equally deluded &#039;conservatives&#039;, who 

have aspirations of being seen as &#039;great social reformers and humanitarians&#039;, respected by all. 

Some chance of that happening.

Chirac, Blair, Shroeder, Howard, Kerry, Bush, Clinton, even Mugabe, may have different ways of 

going about the job, but all think that the way to go is via - &#039;the State&#039;, - Big bureacracies, big 

spending, big handouts, and of course! - big taxes. From Bush to Mugabe, they all crave power, 

and power comes from control, - control of people. The more people the more power. Good grief, 

in the USA they have a branch of government called &#039;the Legislature&#039;, just to make new laws. Is 

it any wonder that the general populace has little or no respect for anything suggested or 

sponsored by &#039;The Government?&#039;, and see government spending as largely a waste of money, 

whether that government is that of the EU, the US, the UK, the UN, or any other bunch of 

self-important nincompoops.

The real problem is not one of politics, it is one of attitude, admittedly bought on largely as a 

result of politics, but now down to a simple matter of attitude, - we have no respect for anyone, 

or anything, that attempts to tell us what to do, or how to behave. In the light of our communal 

experience we see the &#039;pillars&#039; of our various communities, as being no more than egocentric self 

serving incompetents. The more contempt we show &#039;the powers that be&#039;, the more stupid laws 

they impose, thereby exacerbating the very condition they perceive as a problem. (Those 

naughty peasants, just wont do as they are told).

From the police, with their sanctimonious attitude to the motorist and their utterly ridiculous 

attempts at being politcally correct. With the medical profession making ridiculous, statements 

on every aspect of daily life, usually in an arrogant and patronising fashion, while all the time 

failing ever more at their real task in life, that of fighting disease and curing illness, and all the 

while adopting a superior attitude to the rest of us, largely in an effort, it would seem, to protect 

their ever burgeoning pay packets.

If you still consider religion as a communal &#039;pillar&#039;, it is all too easy to see just how much 

contempt the established church is generally held in. Little wonder, if the current leaders are 

anything to go by. Their problems seem to date back to the effort to go &#039;ecumenical&#039;. Being all 

things to all men is never easy!

Teachers, - now there is a another crumbled pillar! once the mainstay of any community, the 

earnest worthies who were not just our teachers and mentors, but were also surrogate family 

members, and every one meriting the accolade of &#039;professional&#039;, now bought low by the intrusion 

of &#039;the Trade Union&#039;. If ever a profession sold it&#039;s respect in exchange for a few extra coppers, all 

the while being bullied by socialist dogma, then this is it.

All the traditional &#039;pillars&#039;, have either gone for ever, or have been changed so dramatically, as  

to be unrecognisable, the craft Guilds, membership of which any man could be proud, largely 

gone now, or changed into being a club for those &#039;well respected&#039; City folk. Yes, I am being 

sarcastic. And I have yet to mention the rest of the cabal of politicians, solicitors, mandarins, 

judges, - well you name your favourite, I&#039;m sure you know one or two! 

We see the media lauding one incompetent after another, from the sporting or entertainment 

world, and wonder just what scale of values merits such adulation. It isn&#039;t just tangible &#039;pillars&#039; 

that have been destroyed, but also those more esoteric ones that made us a civilised nation.

My point, we have nothing but contempt for the supposed Leaders of our respective 

communities, and we see them all, without exception,as being a corrupt, duplicitous bunch, 

wherever we may be. Whether we are controlled by terror, or threat of legal action, the result is 

the same, our Leaders are getting ever more desperate. They see us - the general population as 

the problem, - we know the real problem is them, after all, we are still the same, it is them that 

are trying to force change on us. 

By political means, and for political ends, they have destroyed the things which gave our lives a 

certain stability. They have basically left us leaderless, in the hope that they will be seen as 

gallant rescuers when disaster strikes, but disaster hasn&#039;t struck us - it is them that are facing 

disaster. They are panicking. 

A nation cannot, by definition be corrupted, but it&#039;s Leaders can be.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An ironically amusing posting! just love the way everything resolves itself into a spitting match </p>
<p>between left and right, &#8211; politics has nothing to do with it! big statism is NOT the sole perogative </p>
<p>of mentally deluded socialists, it is also appeals to the equally deluded &#8216;conservatives&#8217;, who </p>
<p>have aspirations of being seen as &#8216;great social reformers and humanitarians&#8217;, respected by all. </p>
<p>Some chance of that happening.</p>
<p>Chirac, Blair, Shroeder, Howard, Kerry, Bush, Clinton, even Mugabe, may have different ways of </p>
<p>going about the job, but all think that the way to go is via &#8211; &#8216;the State&#8217;, &#8211; Big bureacracies, big </p>
<p>spending, big handouts, and of course! &#8211; big taxes. From Bush to Mugabe, they all crave power, </p>
<p>and power comes from control, &#8211; control of people. The more people the more power. Good grief, </p>
<p>in the USA they have a branch of government called &#8216;the Legislature&#8217;, just to make new laws. Is </p>
<p>it any wonder that the general populace has little or no respect for anything suggested or </p>
<p>sponsored by &#8216;The Government?&#8217;, and see government spending as largely a waste of money, </p>
<p>whether that government is that of the EU, the US, the UK, the UN, or any other bunch of </p>
<p>self-important nincompoops.</p>
<p>The real problem is not one of politics, it is one of attitude, admittedly bought on largely as a </p>
<p>result of politics, but now down to a simple matter of attitude, &#8211; we have no respect for anyone, </p>
<p>or anything, that attempts to tell us what to do, or how to behave. In the light of our communal </p>
<p>experience we see the &#8216;pillars&#8217; of our various communities, as being no more than egocentric self </p>
<p>serving incompetents. The more contempt we show &#8216;the powers that be&#8217;, the more stupid laws </p>
<p>they impose, thereby exacerbating the very condition they perceive as a problem. (Those </p>
<p>naughty peasants, just wont do as they are told).</p>
<p>From the police, with their sanctimonious attitude to the motorist and their utterly ridiculous </p>
<p>attempts at being politcally correct. With the medical profession making ridiculous, statements </p>
<p>on every aspect of daily life, usually in an arrogant and patronising fashion, while all the time </p>
<p>failing ever more at their real task in life, that of fighting disease and curing illness, and all the </p>
<p>while adopting a superior attitude to the rest of us, largely in an effort, it would seem, to protect </p>
<p>their ever burgeoning pay packets.</p>
<p>If you still consider religion as a communal &#8216;pillar&#8217;, it is all too easy to see just how much </p>
<p>contempt the established church is generally held in. Little wonder, if the current leaders are </p>
<p>anything to go by. Their problems seem to date back to the effort to go &#8216;ecumenical&#8217;. Being all </p>
<p>things to all men is never easy!</p>
<p>Teachers, &#8211; now there is a another crumbled pillar! once the mainstay of any community, the </p>
<p>earnest worthies who were not just our teachers and mentors, but were also surrogate family </p>
<p>members, and every one meriting the accolade of &#8216;professional&#8217;, now bought low by the intrusion </p>
<p>of &#8216;the Trade Union&#8217;. If ever a profession sold it&#8217;s respect in exchange for a few extra coppers, all </p>
<p>the while being bullied by socialist dogma, then this is it.</p>
<p>All the traditional &#8216;pillars&#8217;, have either gone for ever, or have been changed so dramatically, as  </p>
<p>to be unrecognisable, the craft Guilds, membership of which any man could be proud, largely </p>
<p>gone now, or changed into being a club for those &#8216;well respected&#8217; City folk. Yes, I am being </p>
<p>sarcastic. And I have yet to mention the rest of the cabal of politicians, solicitors, mandarins, </p>
<p>judges, &#8211; well you name your favourite, I&#8217;m sure you know one or two! </p>
<p>We see the media lauding one incompetent after another, from the sporting or entertainment </p>
<p>world, and wonder just what scale of values merits such adulation. It isn&#8217;t just tangible &#8216;pillars&#8217; </p>
<p>that have been destroyed, but also those more esoteric ones that made us a civilised nation.</p>
<p>My point, we have nothing but contempt for the supposed Leaders of our respective </p>
<p>communities, and we see them all, without exception,as being a corrupt, duplicitous bunch, </p>
<p>wherever we may be. Whether we are controlled by terror, or threat of legal action, the result is </p>
<p>the same, our Leaders are getting ever more desperate. They see us &#8211; the general population as </p>
<p>the problem, &#8211; we know the real problem is them, after all, we are still the same, it is them that </p>
<p>are trying to force change on us. </p>
<p>By political means, and for political ends, they have destroyed the things which gave our lives a </p>
<p>certain stability. They have basically left us leaderless, in the hope that they will be seen as </p>
<p>gallant rescuers when disaster strikes, but disaster hasn&#8217;t struck us &#8211; it is them that are facing </p>
<p>disaster. They are panicking. </p>
<p>A nation cannot, by definition be corrupted, but it&#8217;s Leaders can be.  </p>
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		<title>By: Verity</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78582</link>
		<dc:creator>Verity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 21:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t know that, Guy, and thank you.  Looks like, if one wants to stay in Europe, Switzerland is the only truly free country in which to live ... Good on them!




]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know that, Guy, and thank you.  Looks like, if one wants to stay in Europe, Switzerland is the only truly free country in which to live &#8230; Good on them!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: guy herbert</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78581</link>
		<dc:creator>guy herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 21:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Norway, Iceland, Leichtenstein are the EEA states that receive the acquis entire.

The Swiss position is a bit more complex, &#039;cos there has been a stealthy move towards joining without anyone being asked.  The relevant documents are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.europa.admin.ch/europapol/off/e/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;

You&#039;ll see these are bilateral agreements not binding treaties--so the Swiss public is less involved, but also Switzerland can walk away relatively easily--and they do not arbitrarily import all past or future acreted EU law as full reception of the acquis would do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norway, Iceland, Leichtenstein are the EEA states that receive the acquis entire.</p>
<p>The Swiss position is a bit more complex, &#8216;cos there has been a stealthy move towards joining without anyone being asked.  The relevant documents are <a href="http://www.europa.admin.ch/europapol/off/e/index.htm" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
<p>You&#8217;ll see these are bilateral agreements not binding treaties&#8211;so the Swiss public is less involved, but also Switzerland can walk away relatively easily&#8211;and they do not arbitrarily import all past or future acreted EU law as full reception of the acquis would do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: guy herbert</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78580</link>
		<dc:creator>guy herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 20:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[dotdavid, 

Depends how much money you have, or whether you&#039;ve got exceptional personal skills or expertise, and requires you are entirely free from stain on your character in the eyes of a pretty moralistic and legalistic system.  I fear I fail on all counts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dotdavid, </p>
<p>Depends how much money you have, or whether you&#8217;ve got exceptional personal skills or expertise, and requires you are entirely free from stain on your character in the eyes of a pretty moralistic and legalistic system.  I fear I fail on all counts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Verity</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78579</link>
		<dc:creator>Verity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 20:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Guy - You may be right - although I don&#039;t think so.  This gang doesn&#039;t let anyone get away with anything, and I believe I read that Switzerland has to obey all the rules, as does &quot;non-EU member&quot; Norway.  In fact, I seem to remember that three countries were mentioned.  The other one might be Iceland.

Someone can call a Swiss embassy tomorrow.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy &#8211; You may be right &#8211; although I don&#8217;t think so.  This gang doesn&#8217;t let anyone get away with anything, and I believe I read that Switzerland has to obey all the rules, as does &#8220;non-EU member&#8221; Norway.  In fact, I seem to remember that three countries were mentioned.  The other one might be Iceland.</p>
<p>Someone can call a Swiss embassy tomorrow.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: guy herbert</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78578</link>
		<dc:creator>guy herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 20:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Verity,

&lt;em&gt;No! Switzerland and Norway (another EU serf) are members in all but name and voting rights.&lt;/em&gt;

Is that quite true?  Switzerland is the only country that is in EFTA but not the EEA.  It is the EEA that brings with it the &lt;em&gt;acquis&lt;/em&gt;, I believe.

Meanwhile travelling between Switzerland and France is so much less trouble than travelling between France and England that I&#039;ve known people commute.

I wouldn&#039;t want to copy Switzerland in all things, but it is definitely doing a lot right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Verity,</p>
<p><em>No! Switzerland and Norway (another EU serf) are members in all but name and voting rights.</em></p>
<p>Is that quite true?  Switzerland is the only country that is in EFTA but not the EEA.  It is the EEA that brings with it the <em>acquis</em>, I believe.</p>
<p>Meanwhile travelling between Switzerland and France is so much less trouble than travelling between France and England that I&#8217;ve known people commute.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t want to copy Switzerland in all things, but it is definitely doing a lot right.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dotdavid</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78577</link>
		<dc:creator>dotdavid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 20:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just as a matter of interest, how easy is it to actually emigrate from the UK to the US? I hear lots of speculation, but no facts.

I never even used to consider the possibility that I might do this. I heard people write that they were seriously thinking of leaving the UK for economic reasons and scoffed, reckoning they were overexaggerating. But the more I look around the more I worry about the direction this nation is taking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as a matter of interest, how easy is it to actually emigrate from the UK to the US? I hear lots of speculation, but no facts.</p>
<p>I never even used to consider the possibility that I might do this. I heard people write that they were seriously thinking of leaving the UK for economic reasons and scoffed, reckoning they were overexaggerating. But the more I look around the more I worry about the direction this nation is taking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stehpinkeln</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78576</link>
		<dc:creator>Stehpinkeln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 19:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Might not be the right thread, but what happens to the British (english?) and French Permanent SC seats when the French Pass the EU conctitution and they go on to form a superstate called the EU?  The two seats should be combined into 1 EU steat.  While I&#039;m sure both governments would be more then happy to overlook that little detail, I&#039;m just as certain India, Japan and Brazil, just to name a few, will be very interested in the now empty permanent Security Council seat. And if the EU gets 2 states, then the USA should get at least 4.  If France deserves a seat , then Texas, California, New York and Florida do also.
Assuming, of course, that there is a UN with seats to fight over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might not be the right thread, but what happens to the British (english?) and French Permanent SC seats when the French Pass the EU conctitution and they go on to form a superstate called the EU?  The two seats should be combined into 1 EU steat.  While I&#8217;m sure both governments would be more then happy to overlook that little detail, I&#8217;m just as certain India, Japan and Brazil, just to name a few, will be very interested in the now empty permanent Security Council seat. And if the EU gets 2 states, then the USA should get at least 4.  If France deserves a seat , then Texas, California, New York and Florida do also.<br />
Assuming, of course, that there is a UN with seats to fight over.</p>
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		<title>By: Verity</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78575</link>
		<dc:creator>Verity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 17:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I did not understand Tim Aldridge&#039;s post.   I think he was so confused about the issues, that it didn&#039;t make any sense.

Samizdata Illuminatus, I would, though, take issue with you on your suggestion that we negotiate a deal with the EU similar to Switzerland&#039;s.  No!  Switzerland and Norway (another EU serf) are members in all but name and voting rights.  They have EU offices in their countries, they obey every single half-assed regulation that dribbles out of the EU&#039;s arse and they have no say.  They have offices in their own countries for the sole purpose of ensuring that new regulations, rules, laws, whatever the hell, are implemented along the correct lines.  They have offices in Brussels to make certain they are understanding their orders correctly.

No thanks!

If the EU wants to trade with Britain (i.e., sell us things under favourable conditions, because we don&#039;t sell that much to them), let them come to a free country that makes its own rules, regulations and laws.   The purchaser is the master.  The purchaser does not kowtow.   Let them re-learn the spirit of free enterprise - striking a deal with a customer who isn&#039;t bound the the laws of the vendor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not understand Tim Aldridge&#8217;s post.   I think he was so confused about the issues, that it didn&#8217;t make any sense.</p>
<p>Samizdata Illuminatus, I would, though, take issue with you on your suggestion that we negotiate a deal with the EU similar to Switzerland&#8217;s.  No!  Switzerland and Norway (another EU serf) are members in all but name and voting rights.  They have EU offices in their countries, they obey every single half-assed regulation that dribbles out of the EU&#8217;s arse and they have no say.  They have offices in their own countries for the sole purpose of ensuring that new regulations, rules, laws, whatever the hell, are implemented along the correct lines.  They have offices in Brussels to make certain they are understanding their orders correctly.</p>
<p>No thanks!</p>
<p>If the EU wants to trade with Britain (i.e., sell us things under favourable conditions, because we don&#8217;t sell that much to them), let them come to a free country that makes its own rules, regulations and laws.   The purchaser is the master.  The purchaser does not kowtow.   Let them re-learn the spirit of free enterprise &#8211; striking a deal with a customer who isn&#8217;t bound the the laws of the vendor.</p>
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		<title>By: Samizdata Illuminatus</title>
		<link>http://www.samizdata.net/2005/05/delusional-europe-and-authorit/#comment-78574</link>
		<dc:creator>Samizdata Illuminatus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 17:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://192.168.200.139/?p=7598#comment-78574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim Aldridge, this blog has been vocal about its opposition to the EU constitution for all the right reasons and the solution that suits Britain is very obvious: leave the EU and negotiate a relationship to it more like that of Switzerland.  

It should also be obvious that the reasons the EU Constitution is getting flak in the UK and France are diametrically opposed to each other, almost as if both sets of people were reading different documents.

And I already live in the USA, as should be obvious from the way the article is written.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim Aldridge, this blog has been vocal about its opposition to the EU constitution for all the right reasons and the solution that suits Britain is very obvious: leave the EU and negotiate a relationship to it more like that of Switzerland.  </p>
<p>It should also be obvious that the reasons the EU Constitution is getting flak in the UK and France are diametrically opposed to each other, almost as if both sets of people were reading different documents.</p>
<p>And I already live in the USA, as should be obvious from the way the article is written.</p>
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